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Thread: start, died, no re-start after new head gasket

  1. #1

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    start, died, no re-start after new head gasket

    Please any help needed.
    Put in new head gasket, put all pieces back together, new oil cap, new coolant cap, new plugs gapped proper.
    First attempt at cranking without plugs to prep fuel/whatever didn't work, wire was unhooked from starter. Hooked up wire and continued.
    Followed the instructions for turning over w/out spark plugs in until oil light went off on dash.
    Then put in plugs & started her up.
    No foot on gas, left her in park, e-brake still on, no weird lights on dash.
    She started right up & sounded good.
    After about 20 seconds or so the idle increased then started to settle back down.
    Still no weird lights on dash.
    Some soot out of the tailpipe as expected.
    After about 45-60 second she shut herself down. No sudden stop, no weird noises, just died.
    Tried to restart her but only cranked over, no start.
    Ran to the tailpipe to smell for anything - no smells.
    Ran around to open hood, no smells.
    Opened coolant, still pure green.
    Opened oil cap --- no oil on oil cap???
    F*ck. Ok so where's the oil pressure? I have no idea about this. Is that normal on a freshly cleaned header put in and only 45-60 seconds of running? Doubt it, but what does it mean?
    Checked oil level, at the low mark but expected lowish because I didn't want to over-fill. Oil dirty but not instantly black, smelled like coconut, so I smelled the oil still in the new oil container from the store & that smelled like coconut, too. Okeedokes.
    Felt all around all the pieces & parts & wires under the hood and nothing felt hot or smelled funny.
    I am at a complete loss.
    Don't want to continue trying to crank (she DOES crank strong) because I don't know what's going on with no oil on the cap & don't want to risk her seizing.

    What would you do? Pull the oil pan or pull the valve cover to look? Look for what? Check something else?

    No weird lights on the dash
    No weird smells
    Nothing feels hot
    Nothing sounded odd

    She just won't restart after shutting herself down.

    I went to youtube to listen to a seized engine (which apparently they just make a loud clunk) to make sure it doesn't sound like cranking w/no start, lol. I'm very worried. Worked so hard, & she sounded so nice for that 45-60 seconds, please help?

  2. #2

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    "she sounded so nice for that 45-60 seconds" makes me think it ran whatever fuel was in the carburetor then starved for fuel...I would check fuel pump, lines kinked, filter, etc...first.

  3. #3


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    3 things for the engine to run...Air, Fuel, Fire...I'm betting on Fuel... the idle increased...going lean running out of gas... check the spark while your at it (fire).

  4. #4



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    Get a oil pressure gauge installed. so you can see for sure if pressure is present. Sounds like a fuel issue so far, when an engine stops on a seize you will usually hear like a fan belt screech just before it locks the engine. Though at idle, 40-50 seconds is a little too fast to seize a motor and you'll usually get some heat evidence or smell. Just doing a head gasket also shouldn't cause an oil pump to stop working. Sounds like fuel cut off. Could pour a little fuel in carb and see if it runs for 40-50 seconds again. If not, spark would be next. Don't panic, that won't help. Were here...



    LOL she said "F*ck" she is one of the guys now!

  5. #5



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    Check your fuel pump arm - if its on the wrong side of the cam it won't pump and you will run out of fuel. It goes under the cam - it may fight you if the lobe is in the down position.
    Pennyman1
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    Living the D-50 lifestyle since 1980

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragragtimetime View Post
    "she sounded so nice for that 45-60 seconds" makes me think it ran whatever fuel was in the carburetor then starved for fuel...I would check fuel pump, lines kinked, filter, etc...first.
    Yes! I tried to go outside and check the hoses that run off/to the fuel pump today but the stupid weather was hailing and blowing and cold as heck, so I thought okay ... this is not going to work right now. Then my mom called and of course she talked for an hour, which is FINE but it was the hour before the sun went away and the thunder clouds came back -- freezing & frustrated do not mix well!!! I'm betting on kinky more than on a hose not connected or leaking because there was no fuel smell, but I couldn't SEE under the carb when I put it all back together so for sure something could be kinked down there! I'll use a mirror and a flashlight too just to be perfectly positive

    Quote Originally Posted by LSR Mike View Post
    3 things for the engine to run...Air, Fuel, Fire...I'm betting on Fuel... the idle increased...going lean running out of gas... check the spark while your at it (fire).
    Yeah, I'm thinking that too now that I've read so much so far, that or the spark... so I'm going to pull all 4 plugs too and make sure they're not covered in anything. If nothing else that'll let me know I didn't screw up TOO bad. I kept thinking that, too, air, fuel, fire, over & over, come on girl, you know this, it's something SIMPLE, and still reading the book and trying to be logical even without the book, but frustrated because it was JUST running.

    Thinking maybe instead of just focusing on what makes a no-start situation, what makes a stall AND a no-start, what's the common denominator. Blown fuse or no fuel. Unlikely it suddenly stopped getting air, just sitting idling, my foot wasn't even on the gas at all, so the air to fuel ratio shouldn't have had the opportunity to go out of whack. Maybe air in the fuel line somewhere? Hm, air, maybe a vacuum line? if it was electronic maybe a fuse blew? but for what?

    Going through the list of possibilities & ran outside to start checking for kinks & connections but the weather put me back inside to think some more about how to go about it without tearing more things apart than needed.


    Quote Originally Posted by BradMph View Post
    Get a oil pressure gauge installed. so you can see for sure if pressure is present. Sounds like a fuel issue so far, when an engine stops on a seize you will usually hear like a fan belt screech just before it locks the engine. Though at idle, 40-50 seconds is a little too fast to seize a motor and you'll usually get some heat evidence or smell. Just doing a head gasket also shouldn't cause an oil pump to stop working. Sounds like fuel cut off. Could pour a little fuel in carb and see if it runs for 40-50 seconds again. If not, spark would be next. Don't panic, that won't help. Were here...



    LOL she said "F*ck" she is one of the guys now!

    OH hardy har har Mister Brad lol. Yeah I was cussin' up a darn storm, couldn't believe it!!! And then the BF is saying maybe it's the battery, where's the charger? I'm so mad at that point I"m throwing stuff out of the back of the shed, stuff that should be ON the patio, but it's winter, I hate winter anyway. BBQs belong on the patio, not in the darn shed in my way of the shelves. So genius am I that I must have lost my glasses somewhere in the shed rage incident and I've been using a magnifying glass since yesterday afternoon. Ugh. Battery was FINE anyway. Figures. Frankly I haven't been this frustratingly mad for years!!!

    YES I want an oil pressure gauge, I want all the gauges in the world that I can figure out to be installed, seriously. Oil pressure, tach, every temp gauge possible, everything. Drives me batty when a vehicle makes me guess every darn thing. Oh it's running = must be fine (not!) My mom's truck is like this one, too, in that it doesn't have any dang good gauges, just water temp, fuel, and speed. Oh and some idiot lights that are basically useless because there's no idiot light to say when a lightbulb is blown out. Ridiculous.

    Pouring some fuel in the carb is a great idea - why didn't I think of that? Was too busy trying to learn where all the hoses go and which directions the fuel travels from the tank to the engine. Okeedokes. But FIRST I need to check what pennyman said because yes, I can be just that dumb. w00h00 /sarcasm


    Quote Originally Posted by pennyman1 View Post
    Check your fuel pump arm - if its on the wrong side of the cam it won't pump and you will run out of fuel. It goes under the cam - it may fight you if the lobe is in the down position.

    I'm so suspicious it's wrong... I couldn't get it to go in, about 10 minutes before patience wore out & had the BF figure out how to twist it in there, And I have NO PIC!!! I am feeling so dumb, I just know I was trying to put it on the top, I don't know why just a very bad feeling. I didn't even think about takin pics on the putting back together steps. I know I was trying to get it to go on the top of the cam, I just know it. Unsure where the BF put it in though or how... I can ask him but he'll give a punt answer anyway probably I'll HAVE To pull the valve cover off to be sure. I can't thank you enough for mentioning this, seriously tons bunches and loads, thank you.


    Really appreciate the comments here because it IS something basic but I'm so frustrated thinking of all the possibilities of what I touched & what could be messed up.

  7. #7

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    Okay so that over the cam under the cam thing really got me mad at myself in ways I cannot explain. I make mistakes same as everyone else but to not even think about that arm going on/in more than one way when I was putting it back together makes me so frustrated with myself.

    Why didn't I go look at pics to be sure, that arm or rod or spring thing whatever it's called on the fuel pump was giving me SUCH a hard time, I don't like giving up but know I shouldn't pry on stuff even when I really really really want to. So I had to ask the BF for help because he doesn't pry (he stabs lol but that's a different story) and I didn't want to risk breakin stuff as I was so close to getting it all back together.

    Pennyman reminding me of the hard reality that I'm really blonde on the inside made me go look for pics. And so now I'm wondering which way the BF put it on, and which way it's supposed to be... zoom in on the pics shows the arm WAS on top of the camshaft... am I being ditzy on what things are called again? I do do that, more often with age lol, but seriously either way now I'll have to go see which way it's actually been installed.

    The pics are from when I was taking everything apart... I didn't know the arm could go on top of or under. I bet the BF didn't know either, I wonder if it would actually FIT under, as if it would maybe be impossible for the BF to do it wrong? Maybe it's just wishful thinking

    If it was installed the wrong way - would it make a bad noise? Or feel warm on the top of the fuel pump. I really did feel every thing possible under that hood when it shut itself off, desperate to find out why & if any part at all over heated, and that fuel pump top was not warm. I don't even know if 45-60 seconds of running would make it warm even if it DID overheat?

    *exhales* okeedokes, no panicking. I'll check everything mentioned here in this thread post as soon as I possibly can. I will absolutely take pics & post what I find. I'd be so lost without you guys, or at least tearing every darn thing apart unnecessarily out of desperation.

    Big big hugs & much much thanks!!!!!!!!

  8. #8

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    hmmmm could be that its installed wrong, i would wonder if you CAREFULLY poured fuel down the bowl vent to refill the bowl if it would then run. If it does, then the fuel pump is not working. Or just spray some carb cleaner into the engine and see if it starts.

  9. #9

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    I thought the fuel pump lever went on top of the cam on the 2.6....Anyhow, are the fuel pump lines all hooked up properly?

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy 2 View Post
    I thought the fuel pump lever went on top of the cam on the 2.6....Anyhow, are the fuel pump lines all hooked up properly?
    correcton a g54b the fuel pump lever does go on top of camshaft...you can even see it on top in the middle pic. (on a g63b the fuel pump push rod is slightly below the camshaft)

  11. #11

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    Searched all hoses for connections & kinks, nothing stood out as being a problem.

    Then I pulled the plugs, #4 looks like it might be a little tiny barely may be wet but not much unsure if it came out that way or I tilted it around as I wasn't paying attention, they all look new still.

    Then I pulled the valve cover off to see how the fuel pump is installed...

    my damn oil is milky if I put my finger and rub the bottom of the head where the camshaft sits and pull out my finger its mliky. If I put my finger in the oil and swirl it around slowly you can see the differences in the oil, like it's not all f'd up it's swirly with good/bad.

    I screwed something up bigtime. Maybe I missed a crack.

    Is there a slim chance at all that even though I drained the old oil and changed the filter in the hg steps, that contaminated oil could have been stored in the system anywhere waiting to be mixed with the new oil? damn how desperate does that question sound?!

    Yeah so anyway I undid the fuel pump to see if the arm still moves freely and yeah it sure does. Started to put it back in after I couldn't get it ALL The way out with the wind & pine needles flying around didn't want the head to get contaminated so I closed the hood, brought in the tools & here I sit.

    I already had called the local parts place for a new fuel pump just in case since they have a day delay for non-stock items & I wanted to get the truck running today. Yeah, that worked out great, too.

  12. #12

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    Pics as promised (rain delay):

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    I ain't touchin her anymore tonight, she's got me madder than ever now I may hate her... a lot. FFS I SAVED her from some guy runnin her barely bandaided together & this is what I get for tryin' so hard. UGH! Now I know this trucks a damn girl.

  13. #13



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    If it already had water in the oil it's just left over. Does it kick if you put some gas down the carb? Thats the first thing. Next is valve adjustments
    Members come and members go, But the board keeps track of them.
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  14. #14

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    Got the old fuel pump disconnected, got the new one in-hand, will get gas in the carb asap. Should have done that first but worried the arm wasn't right on the fuel pump, so took off the valve cover to look... and then ^above.

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    Depending on how old that fuel pump is, the diaphragm may not have survived the R&R. I know that without that plastic spacer those pumps will fail prematurely as well.

  16. #16

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    Yeah I'm seriously guessing the fuel pump I took off is the original as in been on the truck since 1984... the looks of it, along with other things, yeah, ancient.

    But my fault 100% I was not careful with it when it wouldn't go in, got to the edge of prying & though I didn't, I wasn't careful either.

    If ANYTHING got messed up in this whole hg process, it was that. Okay so fine, I'll replace it. It DOES have the plastic spacer thing still, I did use it, I did permatex rtv it, I didn't mess it up.

    But when I saw that oil... *sighs* I bought a container of some sort of engine flush, probably diesel something or another when I picked up the fuel pump, don't care at the moment was just frustrated enough & thinking, OK so how many oil changes is it going to take to know if I completely have to re-do the headgasket or what? I'm sure I"m not the only one, the first or the last, it's just beyond all to find oil like that AFTER it's been all put back together.

    100% chance of rain & cold tomorrow (of course), but Thursday & Friday look freakin awesome weather temp wise. I've already thought about going out there twice tonight just to get it over with already. May try to ignore the rain & do it tomorrow, IDK.

    I'd probably be selling the damn truck as-is if it wasn't for you guys. So sad to see the oil, so sad. I could have been working on my damn car all this time & probably got that broken bolt out by now instead of seeing bad oil. So thanks & will update!!!

  17. #17

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    edit* I mean I didn't mess up the spacer /insulator thing, I think I *DID* mess up the fuel pump itself.

    (need to check my dang debit card & see how fast I can donate for editing rofl,besides it's the right thing to do!!!)

  18. #18

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    As I mentioned before, when the engine is at TDC with Cylinder #1 On the compression/firing stroke, the pump is easiest to put in. If you have the valve cover off, you can make sure it's on the firing stroke by wiggling the rocker arms on #1 cylinder. If both rockers aren't firm and hard to move then #1 is on the exhaust/intake stroke and you'll need to turn the crank all the way around again to TDC. Another way to do this would be to remove all the spark plugs except for #1 and when you feel the compression as the timing mark comes to TDC you know you're on the right stroke. Even a brand new pump can be damaged if the lever is forced too far.
    As for the oil, it could have been a bit of contaminated oil that the new oil rinsed out of the valve cover or got sucked in from the breather hose.
    I would double check the torque on the head bolts and make sure all the bolts are torqued to 69 ft lbs before starting it again. I'd want to be sure that coolant isn't seeping into any oil passages because of uneven torquing. Use a reliable torque wrench. Don't install the valve cover permanently yet as the head bolts need to be torqued again when the engine gets hot. A few minutes after the temperature gauge reaches it's normal operating temp, pop the valve cover and torque the bolts again in the correct sequence. Final torque is 75 ft lbs with the engine hot. These numbers come from the Haynes manual and they worked for me.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy 2 View Post
    As I mentioned before, when the engine is at TDC with Cylinder #1 On the compression/firing stroke, the pump is easiest to put in. If you have the valve cover off, you can make sure it's on the firing stroke by wiggling the rocker arms on #1 cylinder. If both rockers aren't firm and hard to move then #1 is on the exhaust/intake stroke and you'll need to turn the crank all the way around again to TDC. Another way to do this would be to remove all the spark plugs except for #1 and when you feel the compression as the timing mark comes to TDC you know you're on the right stroke. Even a brand new pump can be damaged if the lever is forced too far.
    As for the oil, it could have been a bit of contaminated oil that the new oil rinsed out of the valve cover or got sucked in from the breather hose.
    I would double check the torque on the head bolts and make sure all the bolts are torqued to 69 ft lbs before starting it again. I'd want to be sure that coolant isn't seeping into any oil passages because of uneven torquing. Use a reliable torque wrench. Don't install the valve cover permanently yet as the head bolts need to be torqued again when the engine gets hot. A few minutes after the temperature gauge reaches it's normal operating temp, pop the valve cover and torque the bolts again in the correct sequence. Final torque is 75 ft lbs with the engine hot. These numbers come from the Haynes manual and they worked for me.
    Ok first off, thank you so much for the new info and the reminders, too! I did go out today and got started but then the rain and I don't trust the drops to not go into the engine/elsewhere. So quit again. I am so close to TDC, about 7 or 8 chain links off I think, will make sure it's at tdc before the new pump goes on.

    It's so frustrating with the carburetor in the way, the studs off the head really don't need to be that long But I'm being extra careful and patient.

    Jeez yeah I was so dumb sealing up the valve cover for the next 50 years when I put it back on. Totally forgetting about the re-torque so THANK YOU for mentioning that. I was kicking myself yesterday for having to take the valve cover off.

    I am 100% positive all the head bolts are currently torqued down exactly as they should be at 69. Followed the book exactly doing them all to 34 ft pounds first, then 69. (I think it was 34, but whatever that first torque stage is in the Haynes Manual before the 69). They have been double checked, but can check again, lol. I don't mind rechecking anything ever! Hm, I wonder if it's best to set the torque wrench at say, 68 for the triple check, doesn't it make it tighter every time it clicks? Wouldn't want to accidentally have the bolts be tightened down to 72 ft. lbs with all this checking I'm doing.

    Oh and wanted to mention just in case it matters, yesterday when I took the hose off the old fuel pump that is supposed to feed gas in, no gas came out of the hose (or the fuel pump) when it came off. thought it was weird, but maybe normal, unsure.

  20. #20

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    So I'm double checking every hose and looking around and at the carb thinking "you're next" because it's filthy.

    I start touching the throttle cable & playing with the linkages & watching the flap, and it's not opening, I'm wondering, HMM, why. So I get into the truck & step on the pedal while peeking through to under the hood and the flap is only barely moving. I readjust the little screw on top of the valve cover & think oh, that's better. But then

    I push all the way down on the gas pedal and the flap is oh maybe almost 1/2 open & say jeez, "well there's your problem" in my best comedian voice. I come back inside to stare at http://www.onsiteconcrete.net/d-50/F...uel_system.pdf a little bit more, (it's been great reading material in between the rain drops) Page 21, section 14-20 (2) "make sure that the engine control operates smoothly, and that the throttle valve opens completely when the accelerator pedal is fully depressed". Well glad I dinked around touching things while double checking hoses & such. It's barely moving at all

  21. #21



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    Uhhh the flap isn't opening because the choke is engage on your cold engine. It will open fully when it warms up.
    Fuel pump is connected correctly right. Hoses going to the in/out/return or depending on how many hose you have. There is no pump in the tank, so the fuel pump on the head is the only one. Be sure the push rod is in correctly. It's a PIA to install, but if you turn the motor a little it will take tension off and make it easier. Sounds like your very close to completion soon as you solve the fuel starving problem. Don't get too deep into the search, because it worked before you started and you haven't done enough to make the fuel stop. You apparently have made a change in something putting it back together, though not a serious change just a forgetful Oooops probably. Stick with the fuel issue and make sure there is fuel in the tank too, lol. Check those fuel lines going to the pump to be sure you put the back on pump correctly and that the pump rod is doing what it is suppose to do.

    Oh and the torque doesn't get tighter if you keep clicking it. It is set to not get tighter, that what the whole design of a torque wrench is about. Goes to required amount and releases by use of a spring inside the wrench. After your done using the torque wrench, always remember to release the setting and put the handle back to it's 0 reading so spring doesn't get trained for the torque you used and make the wrench incorrect.


    TDC compression stroke the first 2 rockers on the #1 piston of the head are always loose, or in a relaxed position making the valves completely closed on the chamber. Easy way to reassure TDC compression.

  22. #22

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    If the diaphragm in the pump is torn, the fuel will run back down the fuel line towards the tank. That's almost a sure sign the pump is faulty. When you're ready to fire it up again, open the throttle all the way and pour a bottle cap of fresh gas down the carb. This will give you a quick start and prime the fuel pump. It'll save your starter motor from having to prime it. You might have to do it more than once if your carb's float bowl is empty.

  23. #23

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    12-18-2014
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    215
    Location

    Vancouver, WA
    Vehicle

    1984 Mitsubishi Mighty Max
    Engine

    G54B
    Runs like a champ with gas put right in the carb, BUT still not getting itself fuel on it's own though I'm sure it's just me I'm still being dumb missing something perfectly simple I'm sure, lol!

  24. #24

    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    12-18-2014
    Posts
    215
    Location

    Vancouver, WA
    Vehicle

    1984 Mitsubishi Mighty Max
    Engine

    G54B
    The only thing left for me to do that I can think of is to put on new hoses, so I got some tonight and will put them on tomorrow. And see.

  25. #25



    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    07-24-2012
    Posts
    2,357
    Location

    Washington State
    Vehicle

    1986 Mitsubishi Mighty Max
    Engine

    G63B
    Oh dear, get your truck fixed... After all that work and it is giving you a tease. I'm sure you have gone over every thing you touched and confirmed that it is all ok also.
    Maybe just have to get firm with the girl and tell her to start or you will not buy her that leather bra you saw in the auto parts magazine.

    I can imagine you will be a happy girl when that truck stays running on a start soon.
    Take a couple snap shots, maybe someone will spot something that could assit you.

    Hang in there....your as persistent as myself.

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