How to determine???

[85Ram50]

OK. I have it in with two bolts on the bottom, the cross member back in and the drive shaft and center bearing back on. Taking a break.

Its surprising how much lumber you need to install one of these on your own with it just high enough off the ground for the bell housing to fit under. I levered the front and back up and cribbed it until it was high enough for the jack to get under it. It is good to have a 3/4 plywood about an inch larger square than the pan a bunch of short 2x4 and a short 4x8 only because the little jack doesn't get up very high. I needed both the floor jack and the little cheapo floor jack to get it into position at the same time. Once I had a bolt seated with it on the projecting studs I only needed the one jack. Don't connect the cross member to the frame until you have the mount nuts and bolts in hand tight. I just need to put in the top bolts and the starter.
I'll be using Redline MT90 oil.

[85Ram50]

I showered and went out and got it started. Sounds nice. Ones I got it going it kicks off right away every time no funny noises. It might have hesitated because I drained teh pil and only put two quarts and a half quart of very old diesel back in.
I tried to put it in gear no clutch! Rasa frasa #$%^&*(OP{
I adjusted it a lot. I think I may not have any more adjustment to go.clutch asdjustment.jpgIs there more adjustment? How much?


So I think the new clutch cover assembly may not be a good match to the flywheel. The original flywheel only had two guide pins the new one has three. Also when I tightened the clutch cover assembly down to make contact with the flywheel it lost its crown. It would lose it near the bolt I was tightening until it was fully seated then it was flat. The old clutch cover assembly had its crown when installed. this is the old one. old clutch cover assembly.jpg

[geezer101]

That adjuster is a red flag straight up. You should have way more adjustment to work with than that - it shouldn't be wound that far out. And the loading/adjuster spring is missing? If the existing pressure plate (clutch cover) has all of the dowels located and aligned to the flywheel correctly then it's right. Are the flywheels identical? There is an anomaly somewhere that has caused the clutch assembly to be too far forward away from the clutch fork/arm which is why you have lost all of your adjustment. You'll have to visually compare what you had originally installed to the replacement parts - including the throw out bearing which is one component that is a primary cause of loss of clutch adjustment/travel.

[85Ram50]

Interesting since I did not change the throwout bearing because the one in the old clutch kit was looking grubby even after I cleaned it up. I didn't put them side by side but they didn't look any different to me in size and the one that is in there seemed much better quality made of stainless. I was wondering why the pressure plate cone flattened out as I tightened it with the new clutch that came with it in there.

Oh yea what is the loading adjuster spring?

I'm going to have to put it up again tomorrow and take it back apart.

Edit- The throwout bearing I left in cam out all the way to the end of the smooth shaft. The problem has to be something to do with the pressure plate. If I had to guess whatever is not allowing it to sit flush against the flywheel without screwing it down. The one I took off lays right on it no problem. IDK if its the third guide pin causing a problem or the kit is messed up. It's gonna be scrap metal now unless I find some mistake I made. I ordered an M-Pact off RA.

[geezer101]

There is a spring that slips over the adjuster on the clutch cable and one end of it locks into the 'teeth' on the adjuster nut thingy. It's to prevent the clutch cable adjuster backing out by itself and subsequently leaving you without a pedal.

[85Ram50]

Thanks again Geez. Saw it in the manual after you mentioned it. I never had a problem with it changing on its own. Not sure I will tackle it today, the body wants rest. It worked well enough to get it started in gear and drive it to a flatter spot on the driveway.

[85Ram50]

I went out to put it on jack stands and next thing you know its a few hours later and my transmission is on the ground.

These pictures are of the pressure plate after I loosened it. The fingers are cone shaped like they should be but it is like 1/4 inch away from the flywheel and the bolts are under tension but not tight. Is this how it is supposed to be? Or should it sit flat on the flywheel easy peasy? I checked my other one and even with the two pins one of them is slightly too big for the hole like this one is. It will go on if I force it. the gap photo is blurry but you can see how far away it is.

pressure plate loosened.jpg Gap.jpg

Edit- I looked up the torque specs, set my wrench to 11ftlbs and it screwed down tight before it ever got close to triggering the torque wrench. I took the pressure plate off and it is 1 /4 shorter than the one I replaced! Good call geez. Hopefully the new one I ordered is the right size.

[geezer101]

They should be pinned tight against the flywheel - no gaps. And it was just a stab in the dark but I'm glad you found the anomaly.
So the big questions is - what is this pressure plate off? I have a theory about flywheels and pressure plate kits. Clutches from early Hyundais fit 4G63/G63B's but the pressure plate is inverted (it's a 'pull' clutch instead of push) I haven't checked the dimensions BUT they make full clutch and flywheel kits for Elantra/Tiburon/Coupe in 4 stage performance packages. Wonder if the flywheels interchange (they are 6 bolt)

[Fordubishi]

Ummmm it looks like the clutch disk is on backwards. the snout should be pointing out and the flush part of the input should be up against the flywheel. In picture 1 it looks like the spline input is almost flush with the clutch disk.

[85Ram50]

Geez, I ordered it years ago when I needed one. They sent me this one but still being green I was astute enough to recognize it wasn't the one in the picture and asked for that one. They never asked for this one back. So really its worth what I paid for it. The one I took out is the one they sent me to replace this one.

Fordubishi, The clutch plate is on with the flush side up against the flywheel. The pressure plate is wrong. In the post #32 that first picture is of the pressure plate after I loosened the bolts which allowed the fingers to come back out to a cone shape. When it is fully tightened the fingers of the pressure plate contract inward toward the clutch and are actually flat. That baffles me as I cannot see what mechanism causes it. But that pressure plate is 1/4 inch shorter than the pressure plate that worked which I am replacing with the new kit since I have a new flywheel.

[FMS88]

The alignment dowels for the clutch cover are usually driven into holes on the flywheel. How many does the old flywheel have and how many on the new one? I would expect both to have three, 120 degrees apart. If there are only two or the dowels are fixed to the clutch cover, that doesn't seem right. It would also explain why the cover won't seat tight against the flywheel.

[85Ram50]

FMS88, There are two pins on the old and 3 on the new. I can get the pressure plate to seat but when I do it is actuated and the fingers are all the way in as if the throwout bearing is pressing on it. I finally figured out why yesterday, this pressure plate is 1/4 in shorter than the old one. I put them on a table and put a level across the body of each one.
Edit- I figure that distance was forcing it down over the hat of the clutch plate and that was causing the fingers to collapse inward. It is probably a miss matched kit but since I bought it more than 10 years ago and they replaced it because I wanted the one in the picture that I thought I was buying it's scrap metal now. The measurement is 2.5" for the short one and 2.75" for the one that was in there.
EDIT 8-2-20- Correction the measurements are 1.5 and 1.75 respectively.

[FMS88]

On some vehicles the fingers will flatten a bit as the cover is tightened, but that wasn’t the case when I replaced my clutch on my G54b. I’d expect the clutch you ordered will behave as you expect.

[85Ram50]

On some vehicles the fingers will flatten a bit as the cover is tightened, but that wasn’t the case when I replaced my clutch on my G54b. I’d expect the clutch you ordered will behave as you expect.

I think so too. That might have been one of the first things I bought online and I do not remember what site I found it on but the new one coming is from RA.

Edit 8-1-20- delivery has not shown up. It was weird last eve it said delivery by end of day at the tracking page. Then an hour later it said no delivery scheduled. by email today RA said wait til Tuesday to contact them again. FedEx just told me on the phone they were already trying to trace it when I called as it had not been scanned for 6 days. They also said 7 days no scan they consider it a lost item.

[85Ram50]

Update.
OK the M Pact clutch arrived today. I immediately measured the pressure plate and it is a 1.5" tall plate. I have put it back in the box and done the label printing to send it back.
I see no mention of the height of the pressure plate on any of the clutch kits they offer on RA. Am I missing something? The old one is stamped with Valeo which is a Korean clutch company. No numbers on it.

[geezer101]

^what about the thrust/throw out bearing? Is it identical or does it have more forward offset?

[85Ram50]

^what about the thrust/throw out bearing? Is it identical or does it have more forward offset?

I never got past measuring the pressure plate. Once I knew it was short I never opened the plastic bag around the clutch or bearings. As is the one that is on the transmission right now comes out to or just over the splines on the input shaft when I move the lever by hand.
It just hit me this morning that I do not know for certain that this new flywheel is the same thickness as the other one. Seems like a possibility since the pressure plates are different sizes and there is no mention of that in the specs for them. So I'm doing that later today before I take the clutch down to the shipping office.
So if the flywheel is not the same size I am not sure what steps to take. I suppose I would have to ask for parts that match what I have.

Question- The holes for the pins on all the plates are tight and do not let it sit flush with the flywheel without using force. Would it be OK to make them bigger so that the pressure plate sits flush to the flywheel easily?

EDIT- The flywheel is the same. I sent the clutch kit back. I have to call some clutch shops and ask questions.

Edit- I spoke to a shop who told me to contact the manufacturer. I sent Valeo a message. The working clutch that I removed with the old flywheel is a Valeo.

[geezer101]

I wouldn't drill anything that is part of the transmission power delivery. If it's not fitting, either it's the wrong part or you've done something wrong installing it (not saying you have, but things happen...) The pressure plate has to be torqued down to clamp the clutch disc in place and needs to be dowelled without allowing axial movement. I would at worst get a small round file and gently remove the minimal amount of material from the mounting holes until it feels like it slips onto the dowels without a fight (even wrap some sandpaper around a rod and smooth off any roughness that might cause it to bind while fitting it)

[FMS88]

Have you measured the dowel and hole diameters? It might show that one is off and that only one, rather than all, needs some light filing or sanding. Also, I looked at the lousy Luk clutch I took off my G54b. At the dowels, the clutch cover sits about 1/16" above the flywheel surface. Only at the mounting bolts is the cover flush with the flywheel. This might be different for other brands, but it seemed worth mentioning here.

[85Ram50]

I notice that one hole on my old PP and Flywheel slips right on the pin. The other pin (there are only 2) is very tight. The pins seem to be conical getting wider as they go down. Whatever clutch kit I end up getting I will try to install it as is. if the fingers don't collapse I will leave it be. If they do I will use a file and work on the burr around the PP holes. I am hoping the message gets an informative answer. I still think it is possible I am making some kind of mistake as straight forward as it is I could be missing something.

[85Ram50]

I haven't heard back from Valeo yet so I was poking around their website and the show measurements for the same clutch RA has 8 7/16 x 1 13/2 x 23.
I wasn't sure what that indicates but measuring my pressure plates and clutch discs the 8 7/16 should be the clutch disc. IDK what the 1 1/32 is and 23 is the number of splines on the input shaft.
I found another difference with the valeo pressure plate I have. The interior dimension of the Valeo pressure plate is 5 and 7/16 on the other plate that did not work it is 5 3/8. That seems like it might be significant and causative to the fingers collapsing as I tightened the plate.
I'm debating on putting the old clutch back in. It doesn't have many miles on it. I was just following best practice by using a new one with a new Flywheel.

[geezer101]

The unexplained shudder could've been from loose bolts or a warped clutch plate. This isn't a hi-po engine so it probably wouldn't have glazing on it from slippage due to torque. I'd reuse the original pressure plate if all the fingers are level and straight with each other. I've reused pressure plates without issues and given the flywheel a once over with 180 grit and a sanding block just to rough up the surface (if it's got trenches in it, it either has to be machined or replaced)

[85Ram50]

I am embarrassed I wasn't paying attention to the clutch discs. The working one is very different from the new one. It's center disc is smaller and it has a neck that protrudes out the front which I suspect gives the contact with the PP fingers the other one doesn't. Another embarrassment I just saw a tiny Valeo stamp on the new pressure plate and a tiny PH too. Two pics one shows how I measure the body heights and the other shows the two discs, the old on on the left.



Edit- Further measuring makes the old clutch plate 8.5 inches not 8 7/16. I found a kit on Carparts.com that says it is guaranteed to fit and has an 8.5 clutch disc. I ordered it since its guaranteed and free delivery.
Edit2- Carparts.com site said it would be delivered by Friday the 7th. When I checked the tracking number the next day it said August 12th, then the next day it got moved down to August 13th. I guess i have been spoiled as this feels bait and switchy. Until I ordered the last clutch I have had good luck with deliveries.

[geezer101]

Oh OK. The 6 spring is a sports/HD clutch disc? It'll grab differently to the standard clutch disc. Does 1/16" make that much difference? Hopefully the new clutch will fix your woes.

[85Ram50]

OK I have the new clutch and am trying ti install it today. I am having trouble with the new throw out bearing. The springs keep popping off when I manually move the fork from the lever. I measured the width thinking that might be a problem but it is the same. I have 3 pics let me know if you see something. Also can I get new springs?



Edit1-I tried some more. The springs won't sit in properly. I did some more comparing and the only difference I see is the OD of the new one is 2 3/4 and the old one is 2 5/8. This is preventing the new one from sitting all the way on and allowing the springs to seat that little bend at the end of the spring that goes in to the fork. The body is hitting the fork in between the tines.
mo pics First one is the old bearing with the springs staying as it moves. Second the new one with the springs popped. third the two sitting on each other.



Edit2-dealing with dirtbags. They sent a tech phone number with the clutch. No one answers and you have to leave a message. The website they want you to go to has you enter the part number and shows you what you probably already looked at before buying it like I did and takes you back in a circle to the phone number. the alignment tool they sent is bigger at the end. At first I thought the pilot bearing I put in the flywheel was a different size. Then I tried the one they sent with and it too did not want to let it in at first. Yes I put drops of oil on it. Its just tight at the end the shaft fits fine. I know. I'm too pissed to laugh right now. I need to get a new bearing or permission from these dirtbags to use my clutch release bearing so I can put this thing together. Perfection clutch made of the finest Chinesium you can buy!

Edit3- Sent the vender carparts dot com an email.