Starting issues

[geezer101]

You can get an engine to kick over using aerosol deodorant. Seen it done and have done it myself (freaking funny to watch the first time)

*A helpful tip - get a clean kitchen sponge and soak it in some fuel, then wring out the excess and rest it over the throats of the carb. The residual fuel vapour will be enough to get an engine to fire and run for a few seconds. Pouring raw fuel down the throat of a carb won't have the same effect and having a lake of fuel sitting in the bottom of a manifold and splashed over everything is a catalyst for a flash fire.

[85Ram50]

I'm not making a mess of things or pouring it in like it was the fuel tank. I have a small can and its easy to control the dose.
I have personally used belt dressing on this truck to start it !
I have ether. But some times it will only go with a few drops of straight gas often done several times as it dies once it burns what is in there.
Hopefully it will turn out to be the coil and the starting issue won;t come up again.

BTW what size is the wingnut for the airbox adapter? Is the top supposed to have a grommet as that hole looks huge? And the size of the two nuts that hold it to the OE studs on the valve cover? Since the rain stopped and its sitting there I decided to install it and clean up the other aribox I didn't cut up to put on.
Never mind. The adapter does not work for the air cleaner on the D50

[geezer101]

The air cleaner is supposed to have a wing nut with a captive washer on it. They're all metric M8 threads.

[85Ram50]

Thanks Geez. Moot point at the moment.
I forgot to post here the 99010.302 air filter adapter does not work on my truck. It bolts up top the carb fine it doesn't let the air filter sit on it & its like 2 or 3 inches too high anyway. I have emailed Redline Weber and Carb unlimited to ask what part I need to use.

[xboxrox]

Stay safe from covid19 too

[85Ram50]

Stay safe from covid19 too

[85Ram50]

I got the new coil and ballast. The coil clamp was tight to get back on. The ballast had a new style clip I had to cut off. The ballast spring is not molded into the ceramic and the bottom has a small piece that come out. I glued mine in with superglue after cutting off the new style clip. See pictures.
Now the new ballast had the wire and the slip on connector on opposite ends as in the picture of the coil installed without the wires connected.. The way it was when I took it off they were both on the same end. Is this something? It ran but it did like to give problems starting if I did not start it every few days or it got very hot. I'll finish it up in a bit then put the other batteru in again to see if it starts. I fear I may need to take the harness apart and look for shorts.
new ballast hanger cut off.jpg new ballast old clip.jpg coil and ballast installed.jpg old ballast.jpg

Edit- Two more things to note. The wire from the distributor has a flat side in the hole for the bottom post. The new ballast does not have a flat side on the post and teh post is not fixed so it drops down if you push on it. Drill out the hole in the connector with 3/16th bit. Or if you have plenty of wire put on a new connector.

[85Ram50]

Fell asleep for a few hours. Went out and tried to start it with no joy. I plugged the spark tester into my running rig and it flashes when the power goes through it and the motor is running. The light is very dim. Almost as dim as that HF timing light I have.
I cannot get it to connect to my coil. The multi meter gives me the same readings on the new coil as it did on the old one. I have no idea how to find where the spark is going missing.
Also Apparently what I thought was the right way to hook up the remote starter switch is wrong. By feel I connected it to the POS post on the starter and the neg bat with no reaction when I pressed the button Then Pos bat no reaction. Then I connected to a different post on the starter and the Pos bat and I could hear the solenoid whir. ?? So I am unsure how I might test anything since i have to get inside the rig to turn the key still. I used ether no luck and gas no luck.

Edit- another question to add. I'm looking at the RA website and the starters have a 12gauge wire with a bullet connector on it. What does that connect to?

[xboxrox]

85Ram50 I'm wishing you well getting up & running -- I joined the no start/hard start club today too... My truck would not start with a warm engine; could not figure if it was flooded or starving for gas... Engine acted dead during cranking then after 4 or 5 or 6 tries & pauses it started but only by keeping the starter motor spinning ON to help turn the engine even after is was half heartedly running... I tried all sorts of gas pedal manuevering (SP?) I had the gas pedal about half open when it finally relunctantly started with the long long help from the starter motor... Once running it drove fine, pretty much... I cannot turn off the engine now for fear it will not start again once the engine is warm... Awful...

I bought a small socket set today & will finally be able to remove the air cleaner easily & chase all the vacuum lines to the carburetor for being connected to the correct spots & check for leaks... I might even look at the choke plate adjust stuff; what a puzzle... I will even read the FSM troubleshooting pages to look for hard starting problems...

HISTORY: (truck ran ok but secondary throttle plate not opening or (?) opening real slow THEN accelerator pump diaphram began leaking gas...)

1) "Rough running upon startup" began after removing then reinstalling the original 1986 Mikuni Carb (worked to replace accelerator pump diaphram/in the process discovered we cracked the carb phenolic body)
2) Same "rough running upon startup" after installing a 1985 Mikuni (we think it was rebuilt) that came off a junkyard truck (broke the 1986 phenolic body as stated above)
3) The truck idles pretty good, pretty smooth, drives then full range pretty much ok (once started)
4) The truck has a new fuel pump (truck is all original stock configuration)

Yuck --
George

EDIT NOTE 1: My truck is California emissions & both the 1986 and 1985 Mikuni carbs are also California emissions...
EDIT NOTE 2: My gut suspects not enough fuel to the engine; might be time to install another new fuel filter/ even go to the trouble of investigating how to access & inspect the IN TANK fuel filter... Oh Boy, I feel your pain...

[Giovanni89]

You want your remote starter switch hooked up to 12v positive with one lead. The other lead should connect to the solenoid. On my 2.6, I have to unplug the solenoid wire and then clip onto the terminal. If your starter has a stud and nut holding the start wire to the solenoid, just clip onto the stud.
HF multi meters are good to keep in the glovebox for things like diagnosing a failing alternator, or a shorted/open circuit. Trying to get an accurate resistance reading with them is pretty iffy.
I would try running a jumper wire from the battery right to the 12v side of the ballast resistor if you haven't already. This will eliminate all of the wiring in the truck as a cause of no spark.

[85Ram50]

xboxrox, I'll look at the filter but it was new when I put in the electric pump last fall. Thanks for the sympathy.
Giovanni I figured it out. My battery is too low to turn it over right now that is why I only heard the solenoid. Is the 12v side of the ballast resister the one where the distributor wire connects to it?
Off to get a battery charger. Seems like I had one once....Hmmmm I'm going to look through my paper FSM

[Giovanni89]

I forgot I had drawn this up a while ago. Might be handy to have. Yes, 12v is distributor side.
ignition wiring.jpg

[85Ram50]

Thanks for the drawing. That looks like how mine is wired. So I got the spark tester to sit in the top of the coil and plug into the wire and got absolutely no sign of light while I cranked. I have it trickle charging right now. I also took the remote starter S post wire and put it in both of the ballast connectors and when I hit the switch nothing happened and I heard a tiny click. You were right about the blade connector and removing the wire. I had the remote wire clipped to that S post and it would only turn the solenoid until I removed the vehicle wire.
I'm perusing the FSM and am not sure yet how trace this. But I think this means for some reason power is not getting to or through the coil/ballast resister.

[Giovanni89]

If I'm reading this right, you used your remote starter switch to jump to the ballast?
What you should do to find out if the issue is in the wiring in the cab, or a component under the hood, is run a wire from the positive battery post to the 12v side of the ballast. I keep a couple foot piece of wire with alligator clips on the end in my toolbox. Then hook up the remote switch to the starter and crank it over. You should have spark. If you do, the issue is in the wiring coming from the cab. If you do not have spark, there is an issue with the ballast/coil/distributor.
The truck will start and run with that jumper wire even if the key is not in the on position, so make sure you stay clear of the fan/belt.

[85Ram50]

Thank you Giovanni. I just looked at your drawing again. It looks like I missed the + post being on the left I assumed it is on the right in the picture. I need to know which one of the two wires from the dist is which. I do not think I had any wire from the + side to the ballast The one that is long enough goes to the + side of t he coil the other one goes to the lower bolt on the ballast. There is a wire from the top of the ballast that goes directly to the _ on the coil. This is how it was always wired .I have to go do things, the battery is charged I will make a wire with clips and do that test.

[85Ram50]

I did the jumper wire to both ballast connectors. The top one acted like it wanted to start but it felt like it was starving for fuel even though I can smell it plenty. Oh battery indicated full charge this morning. Turning the key on the dash no longer has lights or indicators. This has been an intermittent problem since I installed a radio not long after I bought it. The gauges were working fine after last summers work.
I have to think the wires are somehow not correct.
Here are two picture one of the top of the coil and one from the other direction showing the wires. The blue on the + is from the dist. The other wire from the Dist is the black one that runs under the black/yellow one with the blue boot. The blue one on the ballast is for the choke.
I just noticed that the other black wire with a yellow or white stripe is also connected to the same ballast post but it came from a different section of the loom. You can see it in the top down picture.
Does anyone see anything incorrect here?
top coil.jpg other view.jpg

[Giovanni89]

The coil terminals are reversed. Distributor blue should be to - side of coil. I'm assuming the white wire on the + is a tachometer signal wire. That should also be on the - with the distributor wire.
The jumper from the ballast to the coil is how it gets it's power. That should run to the + side of the coil.

Reversing a coil will cause lower output. The way they work, electricity flows through the primary windings on the + and - terminals creating a magnetic field. When you break off the flow of electricity (which is actually done by breaking the ground on the - side of the coil, blue wire) the magnetic field collapses. The primary winding circuit is now open so the field is forced into the secondary windings and through the coil wire, distributor cap center terminal, rotor, distributor cap outer terminal, plug wire, and finally plug. When you reverse the terminals on the primary windings, the magnetic field that is formed has a different shape, and it does not collapse into the secondary winding as effeciently.

[Giovanni89]

Also, I'm not sure what the second black/white or yellow stripe wire is on the ballast resistor. You would have to follow it in the loom. Could be the voltage sensing wire for the alternator, or something for emissions equipment.

[85Ram50]

OK. I do not have a tack but I wired it as described anyway. It did not start but I have spark at the top of the Dist and at all plugs now. IDk what this means. The loom with the white wire and the black white stripe wire goes across the firewall and it looks like into the firewall on that side. I did not cut apart the zip ties to find out for certain. There is also a two wire ground that comes out in the same place by the coil that is grounded by the Phillips screw that holds the coil mount. I think that loom section also has the temp wire and the wire that was meant for the fuel cut off on the Mikuni.

Side note the clamp for the coil has to be squeezed so tight to get it on the coil gets bent out of shape. ?!? Seems like the newer coils are fatter.

[geezer101]

Err, be careful with squashing the coil (probably too late...) There are internal windings and the oil is supposed to keep everything cool(er). So if you have spark @ the leads but it still won't start this can only mean your timing is glitchy. Bring it up onto TDC #1 cylinder and check the rotor position. If it's "sorta" @ #1 distributor cap post and you can't get it to fire full advanced or retarded timing, you have the "half a tooth" anomaly. Don't ask me how it happens but I have run into it once and it stole 4 hours of my life and did my head in. It can be fixed without butchery - set the timing @ TDC #1 cylinder, then remove the distributor and rotate the shaft so it's pointing @ #4 cylinder distributor cap post, then swap the leads on the cap (#1 to #4, #2 to #3) Take note that all you've actually done is moved the lead positions 180 degrees and retained the corresponding firing order (1,3,4,2) - the distributor drive gear has an odd number of teeth (this is where the 'half a tooth out' comes into play) It aughta fire straight up.

*If this coil is no longer serviceable, I'd change to a solid state transformer coil (used on EFI Mitsubishis) It's got more punch

[85Ram50]

EDIT a few hours later...
I did TDC compression stroke. The rotor was pointing to #1ish. I took the Dist out and it rotated to #3 as I pulled it out so I looked at it a bit, got a feel for how much it rotated when I put it in and reset it for #1 and when I put it back this time it was directly on #1 when it wasn't before. buttoned up tried to start and starter solenoid just spun no turn over! AHHHHHHHHHHHH. The worst item to have to remove on this D50. Put it on a jack stand, took off wheel and have gotten both bolts loose. The top on is killing me I barely get 1/8 turn every 3rd try with the 6" 14mm box wrench. Anyone have any tricks to make this easier or know of a tool that will fit in there and get it off properly? I don't have a 1/4 drive 14mm or 9/16 socket or that would work.
I'm taking a break as my frustration level was making it pointless.
Edit2- How tight should the vacuum advance hose be on the Dist diaphragm? It is really loose and comes off every time I even bump it. That is the hose that cam with the Weber K610 kit.
!!!!!!!
I might wait on that Geez. Seems like it has to be electric it ran normally when I shut it down last time I used it. The carb even got hot and increased idle when I stopped.
Rain today so I get a break from messing with it.

[geezer101]

Vacuum hoses have gotta be firm. Some bolts are just like that - dude, you need tools. You had the common sense to go through the wheel well so that is about as good as it gets. A 1/2" drive metric socket set is a necessary weapon on Japanese vehicles. The sheer weight of a starter motor will bind up bolts as you back them out so this is always a fun job to do...

[85Ram50]

I have plenty of tools. My 27 year old socket set stops at 13mm for the 1/4" drive which is all that will fit in there. It stops at 1/2" on the SAE 1/4 drive sockets too so no fudging with a 9/16 was possible either. There is no way to get in via the wheel well unless I cut the body. Or did you remove the fender?I was tempted to cut a hole in the floor pan above it to stick a socket extension through. I went and looked at the HF and they had a new set of just 1/4 drive sockets that topped out at 14mm for $8. By the time I got back the rain had moved back in. Made breakfast and waiting for it to end and the water to run off.
When I put this starter in years ago I had been given a different one that was too short but still for the Ram50 according to what I was told before I got this one from the pick&pull. How many of the parts on the short starter are going to be usable on the one I am removing? I figure I'll look up that old vid I saw by an Aussie kid on YT rebuilding one of these starters and have a go at it.

[geezer101]

I'm able to get in under the wheel well to get a hold of the starter motor without a lot of grief compared to diving in over the fender (my truck is STILL on axle stands ) I can get to the bottom starter bolt no problemo, but the upper could do with a shallow socket on a uni joint elbow adapter, an extension bar and a ratchet to get it out. A 1/4" ratchet won't much like being whaled on for something that big but you do what you've gotta do sometimes...

These starters aren't bad to pull apart and if it's only gummed up from crap, a blast of carb or brake cleaner into the brush retainers might be enough to free them up. The commutators get pretty funky as well (the copper contacts can get a few burns from junk building up between them) so clearing those out and a light reface with fine wet and dry will freshen them up. Really clean the starter housing out and add fresh grease to the throw out arm and clean all of the electrical terminals thoroughly. Don't expect it to fire first time - bench test it with jumper leads off a battery until it kicks every shot (I've never had a freshened up starter kick over straight away after being stripped down)

[85Ram50]

This is the only really hard bit on this truck, I have to go at it from the bottom. I have the bolts loose, the 6" box wrench did that on the top bolt and the bottom one is easy to get at. It should come right out now that I have the socket I can hopefully get in there. I don't remember but I think I may have had to do this 1/8 turn at a time last time.