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Thread: 87 Ram 50 4x4 "junkyard" rescue,

  1. #226

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    It looks like an engine fresh out of the crate My biggest question is - how to set the idle up for the A/C? I've had to rewire all of the aftermarket A/C harness as it literally fell to pieces, but I'm not ready to take the next step and look at installing my 34DATA Weber which uses vacuum assist to idle up the engine (my guess it was intended to operate the A/C)
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  2. #227

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    I honestly don't know... But I did finally get the original A/C wiring to function. I can press the switch on the dash and it sends voltage to the magnetic clutch, but every time I turned it on with the engine running it would pop the fuse. I even tried a 35 amp fuse, it worked for about 4 minutes until that fuse ended up blowing.

    Right now I have it hooked up to the relay and switch for the off road lights, and it works just fine on that wiring... I'm going to add one more relay and use the original switch to trigger it, because for some reason the original wiring simply can't handle the load of the magnetic clutch anymore.

    It does cool the air slightly, but not very well and I think recharging it will help a lot. But it works, so I'm happy.

  3. #228

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    Quote Originally Posted by WarStryker13 View Post
    I honestly don't know... But I did finally get the original A/C wiring to function. I can press the switch on the dash and it sends voltage to the magnetic clutch, but every time I turned it on with the engine running it would pop the fuse. I even tried a 35 amp fuse, it worked for about 4 minutes until that fuse ended up blowing.

    Right now I have it hooked up to the relay and switch for the off road lights, and it works just fine on that wiring... I'm going to add one more relay and use the original switch to trigger it, because for some reason the original wiring simply can't handle the load of the magnetic clutch anymore.

    It does cool the air slightly, but not very well and I think recharging it will help a lot. But it works, so I'm happy.
    if its blowing a 35 amp fuse its drawing way too much current! something is shorted to ground somewhere or the clutch coil has some shorted turns in it. i would ohm that out then ohm the wiring if the clutch coil tests within tolerances. you will want the factory ac circuit too work to keep the evaporator from icing over solid and the low pressure switch to protect the compressor from destroying itself.

  4. #229

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    if your 85 is in any way similar to my 87 the idle up is wired in parallel with the ac compressor coil. it may have a dedicated ground for the idleup solenoid that is controlled by the ecu. the idea being that once the engine reaches about 2000 rpm the ecu cuts the ground path to this coil to disable it for cruising but since you would be doing away with that simply grounding at the carb or elsewhere would be fine. the FSM for my 87 specifies the idle up to be set at around 800-850 rpm so about 100 rpm above idle.

  5. #230

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    that last post was meant for geezer101 btw.

  6. #231

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    thanks I have a feeling all they did to accommodate the A/C on my Gen 1 was ramp the idle as it was added in the dealership.

    ...and thread successfully hijacked
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  7. #232

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    Quote Originally Posted by geezer101 View Post
    ...and thread successfully hijacked
    haha oops hopefully this helps warstryker too!

  8. #233

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    I'm going to keep the stock wiring, or at least the original function of the stock wiring...

    I just needed to get the system running to make sure I didn't have a much bigger problem, like a bad compressor or a big refrigerant leak.

  9. #234

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    So the new brake hoses are in, they helped quite a bit. Now that the pedal feels firm, I realized that there was quite a bit of free play. So I pulled the master cylinder off and adjusted the booster pushrod out.

    That adjustment helped even more, but the brakes still didn't quite feel like I wanted them to.

    In my mind, swapping out random components seemed like the best option. So I pulled the check valve out of my old booster and swapped it with the one on the truck.

    It didn't seem to change much, until I tried pumping up the brakes with the truck running... It finally feels like I have a brake booster. I'm guessing that the check valve wasn't holding vacuum in the booster before, but now as long as I pump up the booster the brakes actually work decently.

    I probably should get a new booster eventually, and maybe rebuild or replace the master cylinder and front calipers, but I'm totally ok with it the way it is. I got it to work, maybe not the way it technically should work, but it works nonetheless.

    Oh, and I was wondering if the load sensing valve over the rear axle should be bled, and if so how would one go about doing that?

  10. #235

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    After driving the truck for a few days, I'm starting to think that it's just the rear wheel cylinders being pumped up instead of the booster, because the proportioning valve may not be holding pressure in the rear drums. I'm going to start searching junkyards for potential donors, but until then I think I'll at least try to bleed that valve and see if that helps... I'm reasonably convinced that it isn't completely dead, because both front rotors are showing signs that the calipers are actually clamping down on them, which it would not be if the valve wasn't at least somewhat functional. I'm going to go through and bleed the entire system AGAIN, just to be sure. And to try and get every last bit of old brake fluid out...

    As for the booster, I'm going to try "testing" it, but I don't expect it to be functioning properly. I'm going to try the three "tests":

    Holding pressure on the pedal while starting the engine and seeing if the pedal drops.
    Running the engine for a couple of minutes, turn the engine off and pressing the pedal several times slowly. Starting the engine and pressing the brake pedal, then turning the engine off with the pedal still pressed and holding it for 30 seconds.

    I use quotations because those are subjective tests.

    I went ahead and bought a Thrush Turbo muffler, 2.25" offset inlet, 2.25" offset outlet. I'm going to try and toss that on tonight, if I have time after getting home from work. I decided to go with that one because it was on sale at AutoZone and I'm wanting it a little quieter than I previously thought I would after driving the truck in normal traffic.

    I'm still wanting to re-do the exhaust properly, but I'm going to have to modify the header a little and figure out the bends I'm going to need in order to clear all of the crossmembers. I'm also going to need to add in some hangers, and I want the exhaust to dump right behind the axle, so I'm going to hold off until I can either get a welder to use or get the truck over to a shop that'll do it for cheap.

    I need to get a vacuum tester and timing light, because I've got the idle mixture and timing as close as I can by ear, but I would like some numbers that I can use to either compare with others, or ask questions and potentially get clear answers. I leaned out the idle mixture screws a little, but I haven't adjusted the timing since then and I'm not 100% sure that the distributor is functioning the way it should.

    I've had a few times where on a cold start, the truck would idle rough as if it had a vacuum leak. It would act like the timing was either retarded too far or advanced too far, and I had to rev it to 2k -2.5k RPM in order for it to smooth out. Then it would idle at 650-700 RPM and run smooth.

    That would also happen if I stalled the truck out at a stop sign, and it went away as soon as I hit 2k -2.5k RPM.

    I'm wondering if I need to pull the distributor back apart and clean/lubricate the mechanical advance... The issues have been getting much less common, almost as if the sticky bits are working themselves loose again and the truck is self-healing. I still want to get a timing light on it just to see what the timing is at right now, because I'm concerned that the distributor might be off by a tooth and the vacuum advance is the only thing letting the truck run. I say that because I can only find one vacuum port on the Weber 38/38 DGES and I'm not sure if it's above or below the throttle blades. Also, when I was setting the timing by ear I don't think I got it as close as I would have liked, because I had just turned the idle screw until it hit 2k RPM and went from there, I think I could get it much closer if I had someone actually holding it at 2k RPM.

    It runs pretty well as is, I'm just wanting to get it as close to perfect as possible. I still have to get an AFR gauge and wideband o2 sensor, so I can see where the carburetor is and order the correct jets if necessary.

    One weird thing I noticed is the truck is popping fuses randomly. Last week it popped the reverse lamp fuse, a couple of days ago it popped the turn signal fuse, then one day later the radio fuse, and this morning it popped the tail light fuse. At some point the fuse for the extra 12v outlets popped. Most of them seem to be related to exterior lights, and I'm thinking I might have to go back and re-fix the tail light harness. I had pulled out the terrible attempt at trailer wiring, but there might still be some wires that aren't properly isolated. That doesn't explain why the radio fuse popped, or why the fuse for the extra outlets popped because that one is on a completely separate fuse block from the rest of the truck.

    Eventually I'll be done doing stuff to this truck, right? lol

  11. #236

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    So I took the truck on a road test... Or at least attempted to.

    I was heading to a junkyard about 50 miles away to help a coworker get some parts he needed for his '86 Chevy S10, but as soon as I got up to about 45 mph the brakes started dragging. By the time I had pulled off the highway I could smell them, and when I rolled into a gas station parking lot they were starting to smoke. The pedal was rock hard.

    I unbolted the master cylinder from the booster and adjusted the pushrod back in, then put it back together and headed back home. The brakes are back to where they were before, with almost 3/4" of freeplay in the pedal.

    I've done some searching and I'm pretty sure my LSPV is actually broken. The lever isn't attached to the piston anymore, it looks like the shaft snapped at some point and the nut is missing. I'm going to look for one at the junkyard next time I go, and continue to search for either a new one or a good used one for sale.

  12. #237

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    Nothing like a real planned trip to shake out all the bugs! I have a Thrush Turbo on my Falcon in the Avatar. It hasn't been on the road in a few years, but I do recall liking the sound. You can hear it, but it's not obnoxious. My LSPV was totally frozen solid. When I replaced all of the brake lines on my truck, I bypassed it. I gave it a few hard stops, and it still was locking the front wheels before the rear wheels. Overall braking performance improved for me. Your mileage may vary, but my braking improved, and I couldn't find a replacement, so I said the hell with it.
    I had some similar timing issues on my truck. The Mechanical advance was sticking. I'd set the timing with it stuck advanced, and then when It freed up and retarded it barely wanted to run. Other times it would stick further advanced and want to run away. If I snapped the throttle the advance would retard, but if the engine slowed down gradually it would stick. I replaced the distributor and still had problems. The vacuum advance unit that came on the new distributor was stamped with an 11.5. The one on the old distributor was stamped 10. I had a backup sitting on the shelf (standard motor products vc268, which was also stamped 10) and that fixed it.
    She's getting there. Keep up the good fight.

  13. #238

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    My Ute doesn't have the lsbv either, no major issues with it

  14. #239

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    I'm a little surprised at how quiet the Thrush Turbo muffler is, but it sounds pretty good IMO. It's got a deep tone at idle and cruising, but it still sounds aggressive at throttle without being raspy.

    I think I might have found a LSPV on Amazon that will work, it's for the L200 but it looks the exact same. I'm going to try the junkyard before ordering it... I would just delete it, but I don't want to take a week to make new lines and try to figure out junction blocks and valves. I don't feel like I have found all of the bugs yet, and I want to have all of the kinks ironed out that could potentially leave me stranded on the side of the highway.

    I said previously that I thought that it was the LSPV that functioned as a check valve for the rear brakes, but after reading this www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/3974-87-MM-am-I-supposed-to-not-have-power-brakes?p=34792&viewfull=1#post34792 I don't think so.

    My distributor had some form of red gunky buildup inside of it, along with some surface rust... I could take it back apart and clean it better, which I might still do, but your experience points toward the vacuum advance being the culprit. I'm going to tackle that after the brakes are fully fixed.

    I'm hoping that I can get the brakes adjusted so that they don't drag, but still stop the truck... Just so that I can drive it up to the junkyard that (hopefully still) has a few Ram 50's and a Raider, and get the parts I'm needing (plus some extras).

  15. #240

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    Sounds like you're almost there. I like a nice custom exhaust, it can really change the presence of a car if it's not obnoxious. I wouldn't be surprised if the vac servo on the distributor wasn't working. I struggled to find a working used one... I might still have a go at deleting the vac advance when I do my carb swap by using a distributor off a 4G64 and see how it goes.
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  16. #241

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    My minor has no vac advance. Works best for cars with a binary throttle

  17. #242

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    My problem was the mechanical advance sticking. I replaced the distributor and had new problems (pinging badly under light throttle). It turned out that my new distributor had a vacuum advance servo that was pulling in way too much timing. Once I put the correct vacuum advance servo on the new distributor it was all good. If you read through 87Junker's thread I have some pictures that describe this better.
    My opinion is that going mechanical advance only really doesn't make sense on a street driven vehicle. Timing needs are based off of rpm and AFR. A vehicle being run wide open doesn't need much timing. The fuel charge is fairly rich, and rich fuel charges have a much higher flame front speed than leaner mixtures. A vehicle running lean (light throttle cruise) can use way more timing. Cruising down the highway at light throttle, all in timing is quite often in the 30-35deg BTDC range. The ideal crank position for maximum cylinder pressure is about 15deg. ATDC. AFR (because of flame front speed) has a much greater effect on how much advance you need to get peak cylinder pressure at 15deg ATDC. That is why vacuum advance units will quite often give you 2-3X as much advance as the mechanical side of the distributor.
    In real world driving, you spend the overwhelming majority of your time in the part throttle range. Not having a vacuum advance will just move your peak cylinder pressure well past 15deg ATDC reducing part throttle power and economy, putting extra heat into the engine and exhaust path, and building more carbon deposits.

  18. #243

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    That's why if I was going to delete the vacuum advance, I would modify the distributor to use an ignition control box like an MSD 6A box or something similar.

    As it is right now, the distributor in the truck works more often than not, so I think I'm just going to spray some WD-40 into the mechanical advance inside the distributor for now. I'll look for a couple of spare distributors in the junkyard, but a new distributor is a long ways away.

  19. #244

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    A blast of WD-40 wouldn't go astray. As long as the ignition isn't running erratically it should still be fine.
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  20. #245

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    Well I did get the chance to work on it today, and realized that I am totally blind.

    IMG_20190906_104008825.jpg

    My LSPV is not broken. I couldn't see that nut before, and the fact that I can grab the lever and move it by hand tells me that it's frozen... But it appears to be stuck in the halfway loaded position, so I'm gonna call it "it'll be fine". I did bleed it again, but this time I actually got all of the air out... It came out as foam, and after bleeding everything again just to be sure I reset both the brake and clutch pedal height and free-play. I've got about 1/8" play in the brake pedal, about 3/4" in the clutch pedal, and they're both at 7" height.

    I then reset the carburetor to baseline, tuned it to lean best idle, set the idle adjustment screw at just barely under 1/2 turn and finally reset the timing.

    It idles at 500 RPM now, any higher and it would be exposing the progression holes. But it doesn't diesel anymore.

    While I was setting the timing, I noticed that it would start missing at the halfway point, and I could swing the distributor fully advanced and it still ran smooth... It could be off by a tooth, but I honestly don't know.

    I did take it on a short test drive, but I haven't gotten it up to speed yet to see if the brakes at going to start dragging again... They are working like they should though, at least as far as I can tell at 25 mph.

    I'm going to keep fiddling with the timing tomorrow, I really should get a timing light on it...

  21. #246

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    I ripped out all of the wiring that used to run the stock carburetor, the truck runs quite a bit better now that all of that crap is no longer connected to the ignition and acting like a parasitic draw.

    I took it out on the highway today, got it up to 65 mph without any issues. I also, accidentally, peeled out of a parking lot trying to merge with traffic. It was fun.

  22. #247

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    ...yeah, "accidentally"
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  23. #248

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    I honestly wasn't actively trying to spin the tires, but I will admit that I'm still learning how to drive a standard and sometimes I make little mistakes here and there... I'm getting much better the more I drive, and I've gotten the clutch and brake adjusted nearly perfectly. Or at least to the point that the truck drives exceptionally smooth according to two of my coworkers that can drive a standard.

    I did manage to borrow a timing light last night, and after I run a few errands today I'm going to see what the timing is at on the truck. I don't know what the range is that these engines will run at, but I have a feeling it's a pretty wide range. I'm hoping so at least, because this truck feels a bit sluggish at higher speeds and it's taking quite a bit of effort to get it started once it's warmed up. It does start easier when it's cold, but part of me is wanting to convert it to manual choke so I can start it easier when it's hot.

    I'm going to set the timing at about 8° BTDC at idle, then bring the RPMS up and see what it ends up at. From my understanding, most engines will want about 30° to 35° total timing, I'm hoping I can get this thing somewhere in that general vicinity.

    On another note, now that the extra wiring is out of the way I found out why the A/C kept popping fuses... The two wires that go to the A/C compressor clutch and the low pressure switch have melted insulation and copper showing, right where they come out of the harness, next to the fusible links. I'm going to have to peel back the vinyl tape wrapped around everything and pull those wires out of the harness. I'm going to try and just replace those wires with new copper, if I can separate them from the rest of the harness and just put the entire circuit on it's own fuse in the fuse block I would be plenty pleased. Right now the stock location has it pulling power from the reverse lamp fuse, which is not a circuit I want constantly popping fuses. I'm wanting to try and add an extra circuit to the stock fuse box, but I think I'm going to need a second fuse box to pull apart and harvest the wire terminals... Another part to look for at the junkyard.

    Has anyone else has had issues with getting new 74 bulbs to fit and work in the sockets, or is it the brand of bulbs I bought that are just barely too big to fit? If there's a specific brand that people have had luck with, I'm all ears.

  24. #249

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    Buss is an old common brand of fuse. They make all the glass fuses and the new style too. There is a uniform size standard but you never know with some after market stuff.

    EDIT- Doh! its Bussman not Buss. And yea now that I look you did ask about bulbs?????
    Last edited by 85Ram50; 09-12-2019 at 03:27 PM.

  25. #250

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    I was talking about the tiny light bulbs in the instrument cluster and dash, not fuses... But I do appreciate the info.

    The brand I bought is Phillips, and every other bulb I've ever gotten from them has fit just fine... But those tiny little 74 bulbs are near impossible to find locally, and if I order anything I'm going to want to order enough to make the shipping worth it.

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