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Thread: Stumped. It's gotta be something simple.

  1. #26

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    https://youtu.be/4Md2wYVznB8
    Here is a second video after it shuts off down into the top. First part is with pump off second half is with pump on. Nothing is coming out after it died.

  2. #27

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    I’m going to agree with all you guys that it’s probably the pump. I thought it was dieing idling, not under a load. I have been running a carter electric pump and Holley regulator mounted where the emissions control once was, above the drivers side front wheel well. Keeps the road salt off of it. A little pricey compared to some of the others, but made in the US and works great

  3. #28

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    After watching a number of bench tests and looking at your set up, I think you should at least remove the pressure regulator. It's already getting hardly any fuel. Thing to note in vid #1 after revving the engine, it stumbles at the 1 minute mark. At the end of the vid, idle speed goes up to 1,000 rpm and it starts to run erratically like it's leaning out. The initial idle speed is not bad for an engine at operating temp. As vid #2 shows that it's not dumping fuel but only shows signs of some blowback into the carb (in the primary throat side? could only mean open throttle). A simple test to determine if it's fuel deprivation - start it and open the throttle up and observe. If it starts to stumble and tries to stall out, I'll put money on the main culprit being not enough fuel.
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  4. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by geezer101 View Post
    After watching a number of bench tests and looking at your set up, I think you should at least remove the pressure regulator. It's already getting hardly any fuel. Thing to note in vid #1 after revving the engine, it stumbles at the 1 minute mark. At the end of the vid, idle speed goes up to 1,000 rpm and it starts to run erratically like it's leaning out. The initial idle speed is not bad for an engine at operating temp. As vid #2 shows that it's not dumping fuel but only shows signs of some blowback into the carb (in the primary throat side? could only mean open throttle). A simple test to determine if it's fuel deprivation - start it and open the throttle up and observe. If it starts to stumble and tries to stall out, I'll put money on the main culprit being not enough fuel.
    Once the timing was set correctly I had to adjust the idle back down to 800 but it was alot worse on the primary side before I cleaned it up. It could use some more tlc on the cleaning. But I was wondering about the idle slowly rising as it ran.

  5. #30

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    Well I removed the regulator and it made it worse than ever. Only made it about 5 mins. Had to keep playing with the throttle to keep it running. I tried to adjust the idle air screw it didn't matter either way it didn't change. I did realize the throttle screw is almost bottomed out. But when I finally shut it off it puffed a huge cloud of white smoke. Almost thought I was gonna need a fire extinguisher.

  6. #31



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    If you have a regulator on an electrical pump for your weber, you should have a mini gauge installed on the regulator to assure it is pumping the correct amount of fuel to the carb. 3-4psi is good for the weber. They have little mini-gauges you can install which I have used for years. hey are simple, plastic, and do the job well for what you need.


    I use one of these Spectre Performance Fuel Pressure Gauge 59013, from walmart. The face is like inch and a half and screws right into the gauge oulet of a regulator.
    shopping.jpg

  7. #32

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    OK so this fuel delivery issue is starting to freak me out a little so I may have a plausible theory on it. Lets say the fuel pump you have installed has undersized fuel lines (the Weber should have something like 5/16"-3/8" for the fuel inlet) and is already pushing more pressure than the needle and float can handle. It runs for a while but eventually the fuel pressure overpowers the float and the engine drowns but when you go on throttle, the pump can't keep up with demand and it leans out and dies. Now this sort of fits with your initial video. At the end of it the rpm's increase by themselves (simulating open throttle slightly) as it's somehow getting extra fuel until it can't handle it anymore and floods. As I haven't seen what happens after the engine conks but the ignition is still on, it's hard to say if the electric pump is indeed flooding the carb. So in theory, if the pump was replaced to a low pressure/high volume unit and fuel lines upsized to the corrrect internal diameter, this should solve both the stall out under throttle and the flooding at idle. Anybody got a thought on my synopsis?
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  8. #33

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    Oh an added observation on your pump install. The pump should be mounted as close to the tank as practical so it isn't struggling to pick up fuel.
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  9. #34

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    I finally got to mess with it again. Put the regulator back on set carb to baseline settings got it running. Did find that to get it running smooth I'm almost 3-1/2 turns out on the idle mixture screw. It ran great idles @ 800rpm it lasted almost 30 mins like 25 ish. It's been the longest it's ran. I'll post a video here in a little bit down into the carb. It never had any fuel puddling up in the primary. So I'm still stumped. I feel the fuel side is better but something electrical is still giving me issues.

  10. #35

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    https://youtu.be/jsSDLsRVXdw
    Here is the video right before it died. I missed it actually dying this time. Never had a hiccup until it started to die. Once it died it wouldn't hit a lick. Letting it cool down now.

  11. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by 87junker View Post
    https://youtu.be/jsSDLsRVXdw
    Here is the video right before it died. I missed it actually dying this time. Never had a hiccup until it started to die. Once it died it wouldn't hit a lick. Letting it cool down now.
    Junker,
    When it dies, how does it do so? It it sitting idling, or are you driving down the road?
    Fuel starvation is going to cause bucking and bogging under a heavy load; going up a hill, heavy acceleration. Letting off the throttle will reduce demand enough that it should recover before stalling, or at the very least, it will restart after you have given the pump a few seconds to refill the bowl.
    Flooding is usually going to have more of an effect at idle or light load. When you crack the throttle open, the extra air will usually take care of the extra fuel, enough so that the engine may be running rich, but stay running.
    Another thing to consider is that this is not a fuel issue. While it sounds likely that it is, it could be ignition or mechanical. Put a vacuum gauge on the manifold and see if you start having fluctuations or a lower reading as the engine warms up. Check you timing again with the engine hot. A bad ICM (pickup in the distributor) can fail without totally failing. Before I replaced mine, when hot the timing would start jumping all over the place.
    A possibility if it is fuel starvation that takes 15-30 minutes to show up is that the vent to your fuel tank could be plugged up, and as the tank builds vacuum the pump will not be able to overcome it. A quick way to test this is to remove the gas cap. This will release the vacuum building in the tank with a whoosh of air at the cap. If this is happening I would expect the fuel pressure to the carb is dropping as well. If you haven't installed a fuel pressure gauge yet, I would do so.
    Giovanni

  12. #37

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    So far it's been all at idle. I've drove it around the block a few times and down the road once where it died until it cooled down and I was able to get it home. Today was the best and longest it ran. I have the vacuum line pulled off the tank but that doesn't mean it's not In the fitting. Now when it's running it doesn't smell like it's running rich like before. I'm gonna try to relocate pump down low next chance I get to work on it. But the PO gave me all the receipts for stuff he bought( cap, rotor , and icm) just to eliminate those as causes.

  13. #38

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    How long after it conks out that you are able to restart it? If there's a gremlin in the coil/ballast resistor, they will overheat and consequentially die and won't run until they've cooled down (appears the ICM also has similar effect when it's faulty...). I am a bit concerned at the number of turns you have your idle mixture screw wound out (about 2 turns is normal give or take 1/4-1/2 a turn)

    Not sure if this is for tuning legit carbs but might still be useful as a guide on how to set it up - http://www.carburetion.com/Weber/adjust.htm
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  14. #39

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    Another thing to consider, especially with electrical parts, is that just because it is new does not mean it is working correctly. The previous owner could have swapped some of the wires on the ballast resistor and been running 12 volts to the coil and 9 volts to the ICM and burned something up.

    It can't hurt to verify that you are getting fuel to the carb when it dies. Pull the fuel line off and run it into a jug. If it's pumping fuel but won't restart until it has cooled off, I would start looking at the ignition. If the fuel flow is weaker than when it is cold, it's either going to be that the tank is building vacuum, or the pump/regulator are unhappy with the under hood heat.
    Geezer's link for weber setup looks spot on

  15. #40

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    So I swapped some parts around this evening found the one of the icm's I have is for sure bad. Put the ballast resistor back inline. I got a new volt meter and checked the resistance of the coil and of the ballast. It ran for 15 mins before dying. Let it sit for 30 mins started right up no problem. I did pay attention to the pump and it did change tone and seemed to sound like it was cavitating so I'll be changing that for sure. I did have a few readings that weren't quite right. The farthest out was across the secondary coil. Screenshot_20180501-212416.jpgScreenshot_20180501-212416.jpg

  16. #41

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    We'll see how you get it to run once you have the ignition debugged. Then getting the carb dialled in should be a cake walk
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  17. #42

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    It ran for 30 mins this evening. Before I started it I tested the coil the ballast and had a reading on the imagine cold. I let it run till it died and jumped out and started testing everything while it was hot. All my readings were the same for the coil and ballast. BUT the icm was on fire hot and I couldn't get an ohm reading thru it. (NOTE) the whole distributor was hot to touch the little screws to undo the icm were hard to hold hot. I know it's right by the thermo housing but it was ridiculous hot. I'm gonna wait till it all cools down and retest.

  18. #43

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    Imagine=icm

  19. #44

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    So after it cooled down I put the icm back in and ran it till it got hot again. Once the distributor housing got to about 150* it started missing and cutting out. On average the intake side is about 150-190 degrees.its hard to see but the pic is the distributor body. Screenshot_20180502-211534.jpg

  20. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by 87junker View Post
    It ran for 30 mins this evening. Before I started it I tested the coil the ballast and had a reading on the imagine cold. I let it run till it died and jumped out and started testing everything while it was hot. All my readings were the same for the coil and ballast. BUT the icm was on fire hot and I couldn't get an ohm reading thru it. (NOTE) the whole distributor was hot to touch the little screws to undo the icm were hard to hold hot. I know it's right by the thermo housing but it was ridiculous hot. I'm gonna wait till it all cools down and retest.
    Winner winner chicken dinner! Looks like you found your problem. I'm betting a new ICM and she'll idle til the tank is empty.

  21. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giovanni89 View Post
    Winner winner chicken dinner! Looks like you found your problem. I'm betting a new ICM and she'll idle til the tank is empty.
    All the icm I'm finding run 50-100 bucks. I have a gut feeling that it's getting hot due to bearings in the distributor. It looks to be the original distributor. But for 50-70 bucks more I'd be willing to replace the distributor.

  22. #47

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    ** UPDATE ** I installed the new distributor got the timing set. Let it run for 20 mins. Then took it for a spin... an hour later it was still running. Set a new top speed of 60mph. Got home and double checked the timing it was at about 12* btdc set it back down to 7 run it for a lil longer shut it off. It didn't diesel when I shut it off and fired right back up.

  23. #48

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    Nice. With a bit of tweaking you should be able to gain a little more on top speed and get it to feel more responsive. Big question will be - what was wrong with the old distributor?
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  24. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by geezer101 View Post
    Nice. With a bit of tweaking you should be able to gain a little more on top speed and get it to feel more responsive. Big question will be - what was wrong with the old distributor?
    I believe the bearing in the body of the distributor was building heat. I had a thermal imaging camera and was getting temps 190+ where the icm sets. I'll keep driving it around when I can since it's not street legal yet and make sure it's a for sure fix.

  25. #50

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    Sweet! I’m curious what the temp difference is from the old distributor to new.

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