Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 36

Thread: Tell Me Why the Price Range is so wide on these 2 Identical carbs.

  1. #1



    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    07-24-2012
    Posts
    2,357
    Location

    Washington State
    Vehicle

    1986 Mitsubishi Mighty Max
    Engine

    G63B

    Tell Me Why the Price Range is so wide on these 2 Identical carbs.

    OK, I was exploring some duel carbs and came across an Ad for some 44IDF side draft air horn carbs. In fact, 2 Ads.
    One carb is selling for about $134.00 shipped. The Other is a Genuine Weber selling for $469.00 shipped. The cheaper carb has the exact same parts as the weber. The Ad specifies this boldly.
    As well, the weber carb is described as being a race carb and cold starting would be a little tough to maintain because of this feature. Apparently the choke on the weber isn't working as well as a 34/32 like we all have.

    So, why is this price so low in compared to the high priced weber if the low priced carb has the exact same parts???

    What could be expected if one was to buy a set of low priced carbs to play with. I am sure if one was to buy them, they damn sure better go through them and possibly do some flash removal and left over metal shavings from production, but hell...$335.00 less is low enough to do a micro-blueprint on the darn thing and still have a premium set of carb.

    How is this possible? Is weber dry pumping customer's poop shoots for their carbs? Sure looks like it might be if the same parts are used in both.
    Looks at these carbs, I see almost identical casting and parts on both. Even if the cheapy carb needed some replacement parts, you could buy from weber I imagine. Looks like someone has been stealing weber castings and rebranding them with lower quality casting material?

    anyone have factual experience about this price variance?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	carb.jpg 
Views:	46 
Size:	111.2 KB 
ID:	17438

    By the way, the weber is on the right.

  2. #2



    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    03-20-2011
    Posts
    4,118
    Location

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Vehicle

    1980 Dodge D-50
    Engine

    G54B
    I would think they are like the knock off webers that we hammer on all the time - no way they could be any good for that much of a price difference.
    Pennyman1
    The best Dodge that Dodge never made
    Living the D-50 lifestyle since 1980

  3. #3

    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    07-22-2016
    Posts
    2
    Location

    Warner Robins
    Vehicle

    1989 Mitsubishi Mighty Max
    Engine

    G63B
    I would agree. Has to be brand. Is the cheaper brand been around awhile? I have always heard weber. It's also what I installed on my truck. Nothing like what your looking at but I would rather go quality.

  4. #4



    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    03-16-2011
    Posts
    3,614
    Location

    Sacramento, CA
    Vehicle

    1979 Dodge D-50
    Engine

    Chevy V6
    I would go with a set off a motorcycle and just build a manifold for it. Zoom. 4 carbs is better then 1 or 2
    Members come and members go, But the board keeps track of them.
    Check out the Fear Monger by
    clicking HERE.

    The MightyRam50 site is sponsored in part by On Site Concrete Inc.

  5. #5

    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    06-15-2014
    Posts
    2,252
    Location

    Adelaide, South Australia
    Vehicle

    1985 Mitsubishi L200
    Engine

    G63B
    The parts might be 'identical' but what about the quality of the castings internally? If they're junk there will be no amount of tweaking anyone could do to salvage it (which would explain the $300+ price difference). And +1 to camo's comment. Used bike carbs can be had for cheaps and if you're prepared to put the time into designing/modding a manifold for them and tuning them you will see an awesome all round improvement in power, torque and fuel economy - plus they are hell sexy to see hanging off the side of an engine and the induction noise is to die for!

  6. #6



    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    07-24-2012
    Posts
    2,357
    Location

    Washington State
    Vehicle

    1986 Mitsubishi Mighty Max
    Engine

    G63B
    I'm with Camoit on the carbs mod and agree that would be the way, if you could not get a decent weber price with a choke carb. I am getting more interested in a duel side draft after seeing one on a friends truck the other day. The guy is from Guam and his setup looks awesome. It sounds almost V8ish, but with a hush muffler. The acceleration he had was also very impressive. He kept up pretty good with my MR2. One thing I didn't like with his setup, he had no air filters in the horns which could be catastrophic if something sucked into one.
    I am going to start gathering prices on parts for a transition. If it isn't too bad, I will probably start a build on them. I do want some type of a choke system for the weather up here, this is a must. I also have an intake manifold that I can cut for mounting. It pretty much would have to wait until a carb set was found before hand.
    I'll probably be asking questions later on this something like this. Checking around on what others use.

    One last thought, might maybe a 4 bl carb work possibly? like a Holley or Edelbrock, or would this config be robbing power that a motorcylce setup would give?

    Here is the link for those cheaper carbs.
    http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...+carb&_sacat=0

    Looking at these carbs, I think webers price was for duels if I am not mistaken. But still it had no choke system.

  7. #7



    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    03-20-2011
    Posts
    4,118
    Location

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Vehicle

    1980 Dodge D-50
    Engine

    G54B
    one of the issues with the IDF carbs are they are downdrafts, not sidedrafts. DCOE webers are what you want - 40's for a 2l, 45's for a 2.6, with a cam ground for the increase in fuel. As far as motorcycle carbs, hayabusa throttle bodies are cheap, and have fuel injection and throttle position sensors for hookup to a megasquirt ECM.
    Pennyman1
    The best Dodge that Dodge never made
    Living the D-50 lifestyle since 1980

  8. #8

    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    06-15-2014
    Posts
    2,252
    Location

    Adelaide, South Australia
    Vehicle

    1985 Mitsubishi L200
    Engine

    G63B
    IMO DCOE's are severely overrated. A pair of them cost a bomb, if you look sideways at them they go out of tune, are absurdly hard on fuel economy and are hopeless on a road car. O.k. if you drive with your foot buried in the floor pan, but a set of 39mm bike carbs will flow the same as a pair of DCOE's and will run rings around them in performance and fuel efficiency. I REALLY want to R&D bike carbs and a custom manifold one day

  9. #9



    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    03-20-2011
    Posts
    4,118
    Location

    Pittsburgh, PA
    Vehicle

    1980 Dodge D-50
    Engine

    G54B
    tell us how you really feel about DCOEs Geezer... yes all those things are true, but they still look cool...
    Pennyman1
    The best Dodge that Dodge never made
    Living the D-50 lifestyle since 1980

  10. #10

    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    06-15-2014
    Posts
    2,252
    Location

    Adelaide, South Australia
    Vehicle

    1985 Mitsubishi L200
    Engine

    G63B
    ...you really want me to tell you what I think? Yeah, the bike carbs take a bit of assing around - but I am an assing kind of guy and would rather invest my time into something that won't bankrupt me every time I drive it and punch like a train from the get go. I'm beginning to think using a 3D printer would be a feasible way to design a prototype manifold and then take reliefs from it to cast an actual alloy unit from it. The biggest hurdle in using bike carbs is manifold design and construction and 3D printing is a lot more affordable than conventional methods. One day...

  11. #11

    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    04-06-2016
    Posts
    37
    Location

    Concord NC
    Vehicle

    1981 Plymouth Arrow Truck
    Engine

    G54B
    Why is this "dead".... come on guys. Where's the prototype already?
    I'm planning my build now and need answers.

  12. #12

    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    04-06-2016
    Posts
    37
    Location

    Concord NC
    Vehicle

    1981 Plymouth Arrow Truck
    Engine

    G54B
    Geezer I assume you mean a set up like this? (forget price... just a search result)
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/94-Honda-CBR...VX-6Mj&vxp=mtr

  13. #13

    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    04-06-2016
    Posts
    37
    Location

    Concord NC
    Vehicle

    1981 Plymouth Arrow Truck
    Engine

    G54B
    Or the Hyabusa set up which are indeed cheap.
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/2006-Suzuki-...dYVFTf&vxp=mtr

  14. #14

    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    06-15-2014
    Posts
    2,252
    Location

    Adelaide, South Australia
    Vehicle

    1985 Mitsubishi L200
    Engine

    G63B
    The CBR900RR carbs on that listing are downdraft carbs (obviously not straight down - they mount on an angle) Those are hell expensive, sets of running carbs come up under $300. All of the injection throttle bodies are literally half that.

    This is a good starting point for carbs - http://www.ebay.com/itm/98-99-HONDA-...3D172164257441

  15. #15

    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    06-15-2014
    Posts
    2,252
    Location

    Adelaide, South Australia
    Vehicle

    1985 Mitsubishi L200
    Engine

    G63B
    Or these which are cheaper again and all the trumpets are undamaged - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-1996-Ho...3D232190958949

  16. #16

    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    04-06-2016
    Posts
    37
    Location

    Concord NC
    Vehicle

    1981 Plymouth Arrow Truck
    Engine

    G54B
    Thanks! I would love to buy the manifold and carbs from Australia... but let's be honest, this is a beater/daily and not a show car. I can't justify spending $1400 just on the Carb set up. Especially if I can make these work.

  17. #17

    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    04-06-2016
    Posts
    37
    Location

    Concord NC
    Vehicle

    1981 Plymouth Arrow Truck
    Engine

    G54B
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/93-HONDA-CBR...3D232190958949

    These look clean and priced right

  18. #18

    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    06-15-2014
    Posts
    2,252
    Location

    Adelaide, South Australia
    Vehicle

    1985 Mitsubishi L200
    Engine

    G63B
    They are clean but I'd be concerned about the sellers' notes about the carbs overflowing and the slides being sluggish. A quad carb rack isn't something Joe Average would want to tackle for a rebuild job. As it stands they would need the mains to be jetted up and the distributor will need advance restricting. Nobody would've said bike carbs are easy to set up, but if you talk to the guys who have put the time in they will tell you it is worth the effort.

  19. #19

    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    04-06-2016
    Posts
    37
    Location

    Concord NC
    Vehicle

    1981 Plymouth Arrow Truck
    Engine

    G54B
    Yeah - I read that afterwards. I found a bike parts place online with fully cleaned/rebuilt for $250. Bookmarked a few pages here and there as a reminder. Along with some build threads, etc.

    Some good reading here: http://www.streetsource.com/threads/...rbs-carstrucks

  20. #20

    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    06-15-2014
    Posts
    2,252
    Location

    Adelaide, South Australia
    Vehicle

    1985 Mitsubishi L200
    Engine

    G63B
    Have a read of this as it directly relates to your model of truck and engine - http://www.sigma-galant.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=10169

    This guy is all about numbers and efficiency (some of his work isn't pretty but it's solid) so he really goes into A/F ratios, jetting and how he has set up his ignition. There are a couple of YT videos of his carb development including a road test. Tasty

  21. #21

    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    04-06-2016
    Posts
    37
    Location

    Concord NC
    Vehicle

    1981 Plymouth Arrow Truck
    Engine

    G54B
    Appreciate the link. I will read this today as I plan to start piecing the parts together...
    I also wonder if a small supercharger like a AMR500 could be used if a custom air box was made for the bike manifold or on a weber carb. They have a small footprint and it would be interesting to see if it would work with a low boost setup. Say 4-5psi
    I see some VW guys using them albeit they have smaller displacement engines, but they run higher boost

  22. #22



    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    07-24-2012
    Posts
    2,357
    Location

    Washington State
    Vehicle

    1986 Mitsubishi Mighty Max
    Engine

    G63B
    AMR500 under rated for 2600cc engine wouldn't it. 500 SC usually works on up to a 1600cc. You be starving the engine or over working the SC.

  23. #23

    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    04-06-2016
    Posts
    37
    Location

    Concord NC
    Vehicle

    1981 Plymouth Arrow Truck
    Engine

    G54B
    AMR500 Info (copied)
    Application: to increase performance on motorcycles, snowmobiles, ATVs, VW engines, Mini Coopers, Subarus, Nissans, Toyotas or any engine under 3.0L.
    500cc/ revolution (30.5 cu.in.) With straight, 2 lobe rotors. It could be over-driven, and make good boost on a 650cc-1000cc drag bikes or larger if RPM is kept low. Or it could be under-driven for smaller engines.
    Examples:
    On a 500cc two stroke, with the blower being driven 1.5:1 with the crank, it would produce approximately 7 psi boost.
    On a 750cc four stroke, with the blower being driven 1:1 with the crank, it would produce approximately 5 psi boost.
    On a 750cc four stroke, with the blower being driven 1.5:1 with the crank, it would produce approximately 15 psi boost.
    On a 1000cc four stroke, with the blower being driven 1.5:1 with the crank, it would produce approximately 9.5 psi boost.
    On a 1600cc VW engine, with the blower being driven 2.1:1 with the crank, it would produce approximately 5 psi, but the engine RPM must be limited to 8000 rpm.

    Additional Info:
    Max blower continous speed is 16,000 RPM Before this, these were only available in Japan!
    This would be a great blower for any small engine up to 1200cc ( depending on RPM ).
    Over all length is 6.75", Width is 8", Height from inlet to outlet 5.5" The 4 bolt inlet & outlet flanges makes it easy to fabricate custom mounts for manifolds, and carbs. The drive pulley diameter is aprox. 3" but could be changed out to a cog belt drive quite easily. We have no info on what modifications are needed to mount this unit on your engine. You will need to be capable of doing custom fabrication.
    It uses any OEM supercharger oil, such as Ford (a roots type supercharger was used on the Thunderbird), GM (the Bonneville SC uses a roots supercharger) and any of the aftermarket roots supercharger manufacturers such as B+M, Magnuson or Weiand.

    2.1:1 = 5psi so I assume you could make it work as the truck will only hit about 6000rpm (if ever)

    Here is a pic of one on a datsun B210 found online but no info on set up
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	737_4c0ccc8b8e716.jpg 
Views:	11 
Size:	166.7 KB 
ID:	18682



  24. #24

    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    04-06-2016
    Posts
    37
    Location

    Concord NC
    Vehicle

    1981 Plymouth Arrow Truck
    Engine

    G54B
    Highlight my last post to read it... not sure why the font is the same color as background? I don't see an edit or delete option

  25. #25

    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    04-06-2016
    Posts
    37
    Location

    Concord NC
    Vehicle

    1981 Plymouth Arrow Truck
    Engine

    G54B
    Highlight my last post to read it... not sure why the font is the same color as background? I don't see an edit or delete option

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •