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Thread: I shook hands with the devil...

  1. #1

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    I shook hands with the devil...

    Today I went on a little field trip to one of the local pick-a-part wrecking yards in search of a solution to my A/C dilemma (I'm planning on getting the aftermarket A/C in my '85 L200 upgraded but that's another tale - or thread, maybe...) and upon my exit I spotted a very sad and beaten blue Lancia Beta 2000 coupe at the end of a row. Me being me, I was curious and had a look over it. The lovely old school twin cam engine was intact and had one very filthy carb sticking out of it. A closer look revealed it was an Italian made Weber with a water choke and electric fuel cut solenoid and the throttle linkage turned clockwise (even though it had a lever action second linkage that pushed against it rather than pulling) So I made a deal and handed over the cash (a whole $42). It is gonna need one of my "Geezer magic" rebuilds to bring it into service but it should be a cake walk compared to a Mikuni teardown. In theory this should already have suitable jetting for a 4G63/G63B SOHC. Have I blown my cash or is this one of those 'fate' things?

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    * Added info - after a big clean I managed to find the Weber model stamped onto the throttle base. Turns out it is a 34/34DATA 4.100 CB. I've done a McGoogle search on it and other than a few images not real data on it has come up. It seems to be in relatively good shape and I've already started modifying it. Still having no luck with photobucket and mightyram being friends so yet another external link -

    http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/...psbtcxubp0.jpg

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    Well Sir,cool thread!
    The photo piqued My interest. I have some years experience with the Holley-Weber domestic platform
    & as I have some time , am gonna get out the google stick also !!!
    The domestic variants were all 32/36mm & 38/38mm (if memory serves)... the 34/34mm ??? seems to be a rarity.

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    Wow, just wow...
    made a few calls after google stick, here's some of the(sarcasm) 'helpful replies' (sarcasm)
    "call a mfgr in europe" "yeah its a lancia carb" " why would You need to know that" !!!!
    Finally ended up here,--->http://dkmac.okzks.servertrust.com/default.asp<---
    Called & the 34/34DAT is listed as a performance replacement for 32/34DMTR...
    He has complete replacement 34/34's !!!

    As to the alpha/numeric part # system, Holy Confusion !!!
    ---> read post #17--- yep, all those letters are Italian or Spanish words !!!

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    Sorry, screwed up the first link... edit...---> http://dkmac.okzks.servertrust.com <---

  6. #6



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    Back in the late 80s the 34 / 34 DAT/CEC carbs were sold as "emissions" carbs for Japanese trucks. There were also sellers then selling solex and other carbs as real webers. It got so bad that no one would buy them because of the poor performance of the fakes and no way to verify them online.
    Pennyman1
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    Living the D-50 lifestyle since 1980

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    Claych, you are an absolute gem dude So this evil contraption is a performance upgrade on all things Italian. The item this guy is selling is different to the one I pulled off the Beta 2000 twin cam as it only has one choke butterfly compared to his 34DAT. Also the auto choke thermostat on my 34DATA has 2 coolant connections, not 3 as pictured on this link - http://dkmac.okzks.servertrust.com/category_s/454.htm

    I almost feel bad that I'm going to modify this Weber into a direct fit install without an adapter. I'll have to mill out the mounting holes, cut a section off the throttle linkage to allow the Mikuni linkage to bolt straight on, then figure out a return spring mount that doesn't foul anything (I'm going to block off the coolant port in the manifold and tap a barb into the side of it so the auto choke function works as per factory). The factory Lancia carb supports approx 117 bhp @ 5000 rpm in stock form so I wonder what this Weber will do. Yes, I will post pics on progress...

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    This gun git gud.
    I can help get your truck to pass California smog! PM me.
    California BAR Smog Inspector License #EO635469
    "Keep 'em on the road."

    See what I have for sale:
    http://stores.ebay.com/zims

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by geezer101
    Claych, you are an absolute gem dude So this evil contraption is a performance upgrade on all things Italian. The item this guy is selling is different to the one I pulled off the Beta 2000 twin cam as it only has one choke butterfly compared to his 34DAT. Also the auto choke thermostat on my 34DATA has 2 coolant connections, not 3 as pictured on this link - http://dkmac.okzks.servertrust.com/category_s/454.htm

    I almost feel bad that I'm going to modify this Weber into a direct fit install without an adapter. I'll have to mill out the mounting holes, cut a section off the throttle linkage to allow the Mikuni linkage to bolt straight on, then figure out a return spring mount that doesn't foul anything (I'm going to block off the coolant port in the manifold and tap a barb into the side of it so the auto choke function works as per factory). The factory Lancia carb supports approx 117 bhp @ 5000 rpm in stock form so I wonder what this Weber will do. Yes, I will post pics on progress...
    Happy to help Sir !!!
    Thing is,I know next to squat about Global Weber Variants, (as stated, My experience is with domestic Holly/Weber configs)
    So, Your $42? pickup is a great learning experience for Me (selfish bastid that I am LOL) & still --- great topic !!!---

    Oh, almost forgot, EI310798, & EO310798... for the interested parties--- since 1993

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    I have seen 32 /36 webers like that with a choke plate only on the primary side of the 2 stage carb - it eliminates the restriction of the plate at WOT
    Pennyman1
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    Going off that link you posted Claych that wholesaler is offering a pretty good deal for one of these 34DATA Webers. I'll need to run a kit through it and then do my funky carb thing while it's apart. The mounting holes are all out by about 3mm each (further out than compared to the Mikuni) which isn't much but its going to be cutting it close in a few places when I drill and mill them. Looks like I'll have to rework the plenum ports to accommodate the bigger 34mm primary. Can't complain - this $42 is going to give me hours of amusement...The stuff I do

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    Well geezer, --- 'Mate' --- Wheres the pics (j/k)
    Your the virgin on this mod cool thing is the 'web spyders' lock the info into the cloud---
    For everyone to educate themselves on their builds, On that note, read post #17
    Applies sooo many ways,...

    As to Your ability to make the 34/34 DAT work on the ? 4g63 ? get busy !!! --- wheres the pics ---


  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by claych View Post
    Well geezer, --- 'Mate' --- Wheres the pics (j/k)
    Your the virgin on this mod cool thing is the 'web spyders' lock the info into the cloud---
    For everyone to educate themselves on their builds, On that note, read post #17
    Applies sooo many ways,...

    As to Your ability to make the 34/34 DAT work on the ? 4g63 ? get busy !!! --- wheres the pics ---

    After reading the post attached to the link you provided I thought I saw something familiar - the reference to the Pat Bradens' guide on Weber Carburettors. I have that book in my resource material stockpile. I burrowed through my magazines and manuals and 'Lo and behold!' I found it. Time to read my reading glasses on. A reference to the DATR is made in the 'Weber family tree' but - no schematic or specifics on the DATR or DATA.

    Tell ya what fellas, when I pull this biatch apart I will give it a dedicated thread with lots of pretty pictures - carb, stripdown, manifold mods - the works. I'll try to record jet sizes that are installed on this particular 34/34DATA and see if there are any cross references to jetting charts in the Weber Bible to see if it is in the park for tuning to the G63B and what might be done to improve on it.

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    Well then, just to throw a couple more tidbits into the mix (lol)
    I went & dug up some of My ancient ref material---
    The Holley 5200 was a licensed copy of the Weber 32/36Dxxx !!!, further,
    Ford, Chrysler, Gm used the 5200 in variants (5210 5220 ), with further Import
    variants (Mazda ,Mitsu, Toyota) !?!
    Seems Holly decided 'standardizing' jet #s, bleed #s & emulsion tube #'s to validate flow was a good Idea (duh).
    Partial info Here .
    P.s, geezer,
    all the listed are 2.0L-2.5L @ 270 CFM, (INFERRED 85% V/E). --- which does not add up mathematically --- as
    no info is provided as to cam profile/exh config/head port design/piston design...
    More to follow Sir.

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    but the 5200 holley weber variants have all kinds of screwy emissions crap that were a bitch to work on - not something to use on our trucks
    Pennyman1
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    Geez, you should take those oil pump mods and pics you did from photo bucket and post a separate How-to in this section. just a suggestion.

  17. #17

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    Whoa claych, you have been a busy fellow indeed. I found a variant of the 34DAT was used on 2.5 L rover engines but the interesting thing about the one I saw on a site was the progressive linkage between the primary and secondary was adjustable. So you could fiddle with the overlap to alter the midrange power band (I looked at the set up on the 34DATA I picked up and thought about whether or not I could modify the overlap and it seems Weber beat me to it! lol) The Weber guide by Pat Braden suggests that changing emulsion tubes will have a near unnoticeable effect on the operation of the carb as it will be very subtle but it will depend on the main and air jetting totals.

    p.s. I have gotten in touch with the webmaster in regards to my inability to post pics so, in the meantime I'll be forced to use links to my album.

    ...a days work of messing with linkages and comparing 3 different models of carb got me to this point - (start from this link and follow descriptions on each image through the album) http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/...pspuw5ouuo.jpg

    warning - I engage in acts of random madness

  18. #18

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    AHAHAHAHAHA,
    I shook hands with the devil once, 'it' would not let Me into hell 'cause' I owned 2 MITSU's...
    (stuupiid tard drove a lada)
    Back on topic...
    I wish Edoardo Weber were still alive, think what he could do with EFI !!!
    Back on topic.
    Venturi size (rule of thumb) = 1/2 bore size squared ./. pi x 3278 + 2...
    Ah the infinitely variable Weber...
    As usual Honored Posters, I defer to those more Knowledgeable then Me ,
    Just tryin to help !!!

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by mopar_ja View Post
    Geez, you should take those oil pump mods and pics you did from photo bucket and post a separate How-to in this section. just a suggestion.
    Hell dude, the rate I'm going I'll end up with a whole site just on building a bomb resistant G63B hamburger with everything! So far I don't think I've done anything new or special, just the fact I've decided to give it a shot myself. I was scared of carbs once and thought they were full of dark magic - then I started tricking them up and derestricting them. I still haven't done a full short block rebuild by myself so putting the '63 back together will be a little nerve wracking. This however is the first carb retrofit I've tried so I have no benchmark to compare with (and using a carb that nobody seems to be familiar with is not helping either! lol) I really wanted to try a quad rack of bike carbs but that will take some fabrication work that is out of my league - at least for the time being. Once I have the mechanics of the install sorted I'll have to design a filter and air intake set up that will suit the Weber. More work...

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    Just means you will be Master Builder when your done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pennyman1 View Post
    but the 5200 holley weber variants have all kinds of screwy emissions crap that were a bitch to work on - not something to use on our trucks
    Spoken for truth !!! I DO NOT ADVOCATE using a 'licensed copy' of any part on our trucks !!! PERIOD !!!

    P.s,
    geezer101, I figured out how the 'licensed copy' 32/36Dxxx variant was applied across 2.0L-2.5L(domestic)platforms which have 223-270 CFM flow
    rate variance--- the 'economizer' (lol) secondary venturi --- restricts air flow between 28-46 CFM, but theoretically is supposed to increase
    atomization. (burp).
    Problem is, Weber (the real deal), allows venturi replacement & the there are many options... 'licensed copies' do not !!!

  22. #22

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    The copies like the Holley are designed to do what they do - fuel an engine in wide rpm range for general application. Not great for performance but is in the middle of the road for economy and day to day driving, just like the Mikuni and every other carb on a production vehicle.

    The venturi restriction plays a very important role in fuel atomisation. It acts as an 'air brake' which does exactly what the theoretical application implies. It doesn't make too much difference what size the throttle butterflies is in a carb (obviously going small will suffocate an engine in higher rpm) but if you have the ideal diameter venturis (which are a compromise due to varying demands on the engine and its integral design) and have it jetted within operating parameters, the venturis will slow air flow down to a velocity that allows effective atomisation. Otherwise you end up with a stream of fuel being shot down a turbulent path, killing torque and and only functioning in a very narrow rpm band (which will be at a gazillion rpm).

  23. #23

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    O.k. A little update. I've filed and ground out the mounting holes on the 34 DATA (which look more like gigantic ovals now...) and am at the point where it'll bolt down to the manifold. I ran a thread tap through the small coolant port and need a 6mm grub screw to seal it up. And then I have discovered - the base of this thing is hell warped. I mean, it's like a surfboard (insert facepalm here). Not a deal breaker, just means I'll have to reface it when I strip it down and start doing all the necessary prep work to it. It looks like the force of it being bolted down has distorted the corners where the nuts have locked down onto the mounting studs (the alloy this thing is made from is a little on the soft side which can be both good and bad)

    Only thing left is designing a throttle cable bracket with the right geometry for the cable to pass through the linkages and adjuster stop mounts. Technically that will be the last thing the Weber will need. After that it's mod-the-manifold time!

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    Any pics, for us who lack imagination or for us to just "say, yeah i got it" to make believe, but still don't have clue

  25. #25

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    okay,okay. I'll post up something soon. It is crazy hot here atm and I'm lacking the mojo to go into the geezerdome. Nearly done butchering the inlet manifold to match up to the spacer and then it'll get the final go-over (how much more metal can I chop off this thing before I run out?). My throttle cable bracket is rubbish but it's only a prototype to get my cable alignment correct (you might've read a comment I made about it on another thread) I'll update soon

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