MUST READ - ZDDP and why our trucks need this in the OIL

[pennyman1]

The EPA has started a new campaign to eliminate our old vehicles - they have removed all the Zinc and most of the Phosphorus from todays motor oil to protect the catalytic convertors in the newest vehicles. But, zinc and phosphorus in older pre 1996 motors lublicates flat tappet cams to prevent wear, and protects the older bearings in these same motors from excessive wear. Now that SM grade motor oil does not have these elements, they must be added in at every oil change to prevent damage to cams and bearings. The additive is ZDDP and it is available from many sources - all cars from the mid 90's and older need this additive. Comp Cams and Edelbrock are now marketing oils and additives to address this for muscle cars and other older vehicles. If you want to keep driving your trucks or other older vehicles, using this additive is imperative to longevity of the motor. I am just so glad the EPA is looking out for the auto makers to help them save money on replacng damaged convertors due to Zn and Ph contamination - just like the ethanol is leaning out carb equipped motors so they burn up. This does apply to all our trucks motors as they all were designed for the Zn and Ph to be in the oil.

[LethalEthan]

Some of the racing oils you can get have this additive. Valvoline VR1 comes in synthetic and conventional and has zinc additives already in it. But oils like that are quite expensive. I dont know how it is for you guys, but theres a couple of gas stations here where you can get non-ethanol marine fuel, but again, its expensive as all get out

[pennyman1]

That it also why I run Sta-bil marine ethanol gas treatment - it negates the bad effects of ethanol and boosts the power and economy. 1 Oz treats 10 gallons of fuel - 12 oz bottle is $10 at advanced and treats 120 gallons. Or get the 32 oz bottle for 20; you won't regret it.

[Acuta73]

Does this apply to synthetics? I tend to only use Castrol Syntec (name changed, don't remember it). I know the synthetics tend to have moly in them, but not sure if that applies.

[pennyman1]

This applies to all regular motor oils including synthetic. If it doesn't say it has ZDDP added - its the no ZN low Ph oil. I just got the additive from Eastwood today - 4 oz bottle for 7.00 treats 4-6 quarts of oil. Need it every oil change for protection from wear. Oil with the additive in it goes for 10+ per quart. What a racket this is!!!

[LethalEthan]

Oil with the additive in it goes for 10+ per quart. What a racket this is!!!

I hear that!

[Rahtid]

This mainly for pushrod engines,They started lowering the zddp content in the 90's. Thats when there was a rash of lifter failures in and wiped out camshafts on small block chevy,ford,and mopar with flat hydraulic or soild lifter with heavy duty valve springs

[pennyman1]

I scored 19 quarts of pen grade semi syn 10w30 oil with zddp for $30 for all - guy was cleaning up his garage and was selling off all kinds of good stuff.

[Rahtid]

Just buy some shell rotella it has the zddp in it

[pennyman1]

it does but even it has been reduced for the same reason as the gas motors, now that the new diesels run convertors too.

[Acuta73]

STP oil treatment = ZDDP added

Bout $4 an oil change...

Found that out today fiddling around at Napa.

[pennyman1]

Huh, did not know that. Hope its not as thick as the original STP from the 60's; that stuff gummed up many a motor because it was so thick.

[mopar_ja]

Just read an article on this, they said to (stay away from anyhting that has an API approval) the safe oils are diesel oils, race oils, oils not approved by API. here is the link to said article.

http://www.ttalk.info/Zddp.htm

[derek6790]

Hey Pennyman. I heard that i should not be using Zmax because it can do more harm then good in vehicles to the bearings and cam. Do you have an opinion on Zmax???? I read your post and agree with your ZDDP idea. I bought some STP oil treatment with ZDDP in it and want to add it to my regular oil changes. I currently use Castrol gtx 10w-30 in my 86' ram 50 2.6. I have 160k mileage on my bottom end but the top end everthing else is new. Can you recommend what's the best Oil and ZDDP combination to use in my pickup. PLEASE HELP.

[pennyman1]

NAPA carries Brad-penn 10w-30 thats semi synthetic with zddp thats good; amsoil also has several different oils that all have zddp and some even offer extended oil change intervals to 15k miles with an extended life filter. Redline also has the zddp added to their oils - basically almost any non-mass marketed oil will work cause they don't get API certs which requires the zddp to be left out of the oil. As far as the Zmax additive or any other type, its better than none at all, but because it wasn't blended in when the oil was refined, it may have a tendancy to fall out of the oil and get filtered out; not totally sure i believe that, but it does make sense. Then again, engine restore wouldn't work if that was the case.

[derek6790]

Ok, Pennsoil semi-syn huh? i'll keep in mind non API oils. im sure if you told me to use sythetic oil you use it. How is it? 2.6 club. Im not sure how safe synthetic oil at this time in my vehicles life is? Is that a reality for me? im just unsure about Zmax, i hear its only mineral oil with Linkyte, i guess an anti-rust agent? In outside company lab tests had 50% higher bearing wear then regular oil and the Ftc went after them for false tests? its beyond me but i've used 3 bottles of this in the 2yrs iv'e had my truck. I may stop and try engine restore. Is that a carbon diperser as well how does it work? I want a top shelf oil with the most ZDDP allowed. Can Redline be found in stores?

[pennyman1]

not pennsoil, penn grade and NAPA carries it. If Zmax has bad reviews stop using it. Engine restore is good if your compression is low or you have very high mileage, but its not a cure for worn out engines. The csl formula (copper,silver,and lead) fill in the scratches to make bearings and cylinder bores better for tighter clearances. Geronimo has had the front and rear mains replaced 20 years ago and the rest of the seals are original, and the only leak I get is the valve cover gasket with any oil, not just synthetic. To cleanup carbon and sludge in the crankcase, run a quart of rislone in place of 1 quart of oil at the next oil change - its a super detergent that gently cleans the oil passages and may even inprove power and economy. Use REdline synthetic fuel system cleaner for the fuel system to decarbon the valves and head. I am not sure where you can get redline in a store, but its available online in tons of places; smaller parts store sometimes carry it. Do an online search for dealers in your area.

[camoit]

Synthetic has the advantage of longer miles between oil changes. As for the API that is an industry standard of testing. Just like ASTM testing for concrete. If you want to run a good diesel oil use Dello 400 SAE 15W-40. It will clean the crap out of your engine and can take the higher pressures of the diesel trucking world. DO NOT USE the Dello 400 SAE 15w-40,E. The "E" is a California contraption that is "more" Environmentally friendly. Ya right. It means more oil changes. 8000 mile between changes not the standard 10,000. When you dump in 10 gallon at a time it adds up quick. Screw California and the government..... Hell California went and removed the led tire weights from your car. No led = less reloaded ammo. They say it's for the children and the planet, but it's to stop us reload guys.

[derek6790]

Thanks you guys, i just cant seem to realize it must be ok to run synthetics in my 86' gaser. Even diesel oils could be substituted. wow. I'll try penngrade first. and use rislone, csl, and engine restore soon as possible. Can i use these products all at once. Thanks.

[revvedUpToTheMax]

Synthetic has the advantage of longer miles between oil changes. As for the API that is an industry standard of testing. Just like ASTM testing for concrete. If you want to run a good diesel oil use Dello 400 SAE 15W-40. It will clean the crap out of your engine and can take the higher pressures of the diesel trucking world. DO NOT USE the Dello 400 SAE 15w-40,E. The "E" is a California contraption that is "more" Environmentally friendly. Ya right. It means more oil changes. 8000 mile between changes not the standard 10,000. When you dump in 10 gallon at a time it adds up quick. Screw California and the government..... Hell California went and removed the led tire weights from your car. No led = less reloaded ammo. They say it's for the children and the planet, but it's to stop us reload guys.

What about the delo 400 15w-40 LE I have heard from some people that work in diesel engine shops such as colleges and stuff that this oil is not nearly as good as the delo hd30 I work knechts autoparts and we carry tons of redline oils. Plus zinc additives. Knechts is a locally owned company btw... oregon only.

[pennyman1]

yes with no problem - btw csl is in engine restore.

[Acuta73]

Was hinted at here, but the reason ZDDP was removed from oil is that it kills catalytic converters. Not a biggie if you don't have to run one, but those of us that live in smog control areas need to be aware of it.

Keep in mind, a Cat is a lot cheaper than an engine, but you need to be aware that it IS killing your Cat. Means you will have to replace them a lot more often, like probably every time you are required to go through emissions check.

Just an FYI and certainly doesn't detract from the need of it.

[pennyman1]

The way it kills cats is over time, not quickly. The auto manufactorers are now on the hook for the cats in new cars for 100k miles, instead of 70k - oil with ZDDP can kill the cat between 70 and 100K so the auto companies had the ZDDP pulled to save them money, and if it kills your engine due to more wear on the cams, they sell more cars.

[cosax]

I know I'm late to this party but WOW....this forum is full of good info for our old trucks. Slowly getting through all the posts here. Off to the store to get oil and gas treatment stuff. Thanks a lot

[noahwins]

What about "Energy Conserving" oils? I've heard to avoid them like the plague if you don't have a modern FI engine.

Guys with the primitive motorcycle engines I like say to use oil for turbodiesel engines, like Shell Rotella but I never understood the rationale. I guess this is it.