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Thread: Alignment,

  1. #1


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    Alignment with a Digital Level

    My truck pulls slightly to the left, and you can feel the difference in turning to the right and to the left. In my case, much easier on a left turn. My Dad taught me this old school technic and it works. So simple, using a marker (I used tape) and a square on a good flat surface like a garage floor.
    So we're on a good surface and all you have to do is mark the tire from the hub center and place a mark on the floor on both sides of your truck/car. Keep the wheel straight and role one (tire) revolution until your square matches the hub and the tire mark, measure the floor.
    Make the adjustment on your tie rod, and repeat the process

    I had my alignment done by a pro, keep in mind they allow like, 3 degrees plus or minus.
    I haven’t done the adjustment yet, this is my findings. As shown, my passenger gains 3/16 of an inch each revolution. Which is not much, but I can feel it. And common sense tells us we have tire scrub and it certainly would pull to the left.

    I know this is great info, that's why you'll remember this. (note) Remember I'm still static up front so my ride height is constant and I have the pinto/mustang II IFS. So bags will not affect my alignment, unlike the stock IFS with bags
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    Last edited by Rickdees; 07-10-2011 at 05:45 PM.

  2. #2


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    Right on!

    Did the adjustments, after much of rolling the truck back and fourth and measuring the roll on each adjustment of one tie rod end. To help you avoid my toils and blunders. First you don’t know which way to turn the tie rod. Second is the both measurements change
    So you end up chasing your tail. Lord, I love learning.
    Square off your floor both ways and mark the floor, from (spindle height) the most outside of your wheel or tire. So now you have marks on each side to measure from.
    It ended up, I turned my right tie rod in two revolutions (not including toils).
    Bingo, Now check out the roll measurements.
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  3. #3



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    On our trucks, only one side is adjustable, whereas most other vehicles both tie rods are adjustable. This also means that after you get the alignment right, you must pull the steering wheel and put it back on to "center " the wheel. Another measurement to take is on the inside of the front wheels front and back - the front should be narrower than the rear it's known as toe-in and is needed for tracking and braking in a straight line. The manual should have the amount needed - I think its about 1/4" but check to be sure.
    Pennyman1
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  4. #4


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    Exactly, on the steering wheel. My toe was way out, not in.
    I'm not running the stock IFS, I went with a earlier Pinto/Mustang II IFS and it calls for max of 1/8” toe in, I was @ 3/8" out (that's a half inch out). It drives, steers much better. Braking has never been my problem even with a Brake (slam) test. But your correct about all

    I need to look at your wiring to see how you added for more power distribution. I seen the link you posted, but didn’t click on it.
    My positive battery post is like looking at spaghetti with those sinlgle plastic fuse boxes attached to each noodle.
    Soon I'll need a longer bolt for the clamp.

  5. #5



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    I will be taking pics of my underhood wiring to solve the jumble of wires off the positive terminal of the battery all of us have when we set our trucks up with the niceties of life; stay tuned!
    Pennyman1
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  6. #6


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    Do your own alignment

    I went and looked at my receipt for my alignment and seen the guy only set my toe in.
    No doubt mine is in need caster and camber, and I’m not going back to that shop.
    Me being as most are here are all about working on there own rigs, and like to learn things.
    I have been thinking about something for a few days now, so I did some searching and found exactly what I was thinking.
    You guys are all smart. and this is where we come to learn.
    How about doing your own alignment, setting the caster, camber with cheap digit level.
    So dam simple if you know your trucks IFS and how it works.

    We know how it feels to lose info
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=413853

    Here is a play by play for measuring any car's alignment. I expect you already understand how to adjust these things and you will have your own specs, so pay attention to the means and I'll show you the end. Remember to set the brake once parked and be responsible you your own safety. (that was my dsclaimer)

    First, there is an order in which you should perform an alignment, assuming everything is close enough to be fairly road worthy to start with. If you just assembled the thing, get it all close before you get detailed. First, set the Toe (in, or out as you wish), then set the Camber, finally the Caster. Recheck everything. Adjusting Caster or camber affects Toe, adjusting Toe messes with the caster measurements, etc.

    So let's get set up. You need a level place to play and you need all your tire pressures set. Loosen all the tie-rod sleeve pinch bolts before you pull the car into the driveway the last time so that you don't need to jack the car up after settling the suspension with a short drive. Next, you will need some kind of toe plates to make life easy. I use a small piece of sheetmetal with some oil under it. My floor isn't very smooth, so this is on top of a larger sheet. This lets the wheels turn easily when you adjust toe and measure caster. Roll the car onto these so that you don't unsettle the suspension. Jacking the car up will add all kinds of variables to screw with your measurements.
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    Next, set up some stands at the front and rear with string parrallel to the rockers, up close, but not touching the tires, level front to rear.
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    I measure off the pinch weld with a very good rule to make the string absolutely parallel to the rockers.
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    Once the strings are true, you are at a great place to check the rear axle. Mine was 1/8" to the passenger side. Acceptable.

    Now set the toe, measuring off the tire fore and aft of the spindle, just as you did on the rear tires. Setting toe is as much about the method as it is the number. The toe plates are crucial here. Begin by setting the steering wheel straight ahead. Remember that there is slack in the steering. You want equal amounts on either side of center when you do this. Now measure, then adjust. Before measuring again, you need to recenter the steering wheel. My wife came in very handy for this. Double check everything before you tighten the tie-rod sleeves back down. You should be able to reach them without jacking the car up. If not, it can wait until you finish caster and camber work. My measurements when finished had the tire off the string by 9/16" aft & 11/16" forward for 1/4" toe-in. Remember that this is a very dated way to measure toe. Today they speak in degrees. On my wheel diameter, this is less than 1 degree. 12" from the spindle, 1/4" is about 1 degree.
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    Now you can measure Camber. This is by far the easiest. Wheels straight ahead, nothing tricky, place the digital level against the rim holding it truely vertical. Negative camber has the wheel leaning in at the top. Zero to -1 degree is OK for my case, so I am good to go. It's shims at the A-arm mounting if I had required a change.
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    Now comes the fun part, Caster, and this is why we need a digital level. You can buy fancy Caster/Camber guages that do the math for you, but I'll show you what they don't want you to know. (I got lucky and found one that spelled it out )
    Draw a K on the floor. The back needs to run 12" fore and aft of the spindle centerline and be exactly parallel to the strings set up earlier. You didn't bump them, did you? The legs of the K need to be at 20* off the back. This will be 4 3/8" out at 12" from center.
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    Now the fancy guages are particular about the order you measure. My method is not. My method presumes that you have positive Caster where the fancy tool will detect negative Caster by their paticular order of measuring. The math is simple. Turn the wheels 20* to one side, measure Camber (#1), record how far from 90*, turn wheels 20* in the opposite direction and measure Camber again (#2), record how far from 90*, Add #1 to #2 and multiply the sum by 1.5 to get your Caster reading. In this process, the 20* to each side and the 1.5 multiplier are very specific and related. Change these and the math goes into land of the lost. You will have to ask your kids Trigonometry teacher why this works. I get it, but I ain't explaining it!

    So here we go, turn wheels 20* one way (use the K you drew on the floor to eye ball it carefully) and measure Camber, again, the level MUST be truely vertical.
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    Turn the other way and measure again...
    After a few adjustments and measuring many, many times, I equalized both sides at just over 2* positive Caster. OK for now, but I'll get ot up over 3* when I find my 1" wrench to shorten up the strut rods on the lower arms.

    This is good stuff for us guys that love to turn the wrench, and save money which I much prefer the later.
    Last edited by Rickdees; 07-09-2011 at 03:53 PM.

  7. #7


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    My Caster came in @ 4.95*+ right side, 4.2*+ left.
    Camber is at 89.7- right side, 88.5-
    My front end should be
    Caster .5 to 1*+
    Camber .25 to 1.25*+
    Do you think it was out just a tad!!
    I only had time to work one side, after I made some Caster plates with the 20* markings for each side, rather than drawing it on the ground.
    (I'll post a pic, later)
    First adjustment the caster came in @ 1.95*+ and camber @90*
    Last edited by Rickdees; 07-10-2011 at 08:50 AM. Reason: There is no way this is even close, Ignore this post

  8. #8



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    you were just a little off - btw harbor freight used to sell caster plates for alignment, not sure if they still do.
    Pennyman1
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  9. #9


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    Final results of my garage alignment. I agree with the guy on most of all he says but lets use some common sense while we do this

    First, “Caster “ is the relationship of ball points. Positive, the lower ball joint is forward of the top ball.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYzig...eature=related
    Second, “Camber” is the top ball joint in or out, if the top of the tire leans out this is positive camber.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWoIh...feature=relmfu
    Toe in , shorter measurement in front of tires @ 12” from spindle center
    Toe out, wider in in front @12”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgqCN...eature=related

    Apparently I didn’t understand that guys math in post 6, his math had me chasing my tail.
    I’ll make this so easy for you that even your wife or girl friend will understand.
    What I did was use the digital level on the stud of the ball joints, top and bottom to set my caster
    My front end, (not yours) the caster setting is 0.5* to 1.* +
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    While the wheels are turned to get around the calipers to a better position to the studs, I set the lower ball @ 0.9*+
    Then checked the camber, writing all numbers down.
    Always, remember to check and see where your steering wheel position is, then check what your camber plates are reading. Make sure the plates are in line with center of the hub and centered on the tire, they will move until you start getting close to what your looking for so you may need to readjust them several times.

    Take the reading on both sides of the truck in each 20* turn, and only looking at one camber plate. Obviously the driver (left) side is the one I used. This way, I could make sure the steering wheel was straight, and to see if the camber plate had moved from 0* (Plus it's easyier)
    and then accounting for its movement.
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    I started the alignment on the left front to tire, steering wheel straight as preferd.
    Check the camber, knowing your allowance. Write all reading down.
    Make the right 20* turn and check the wheels on both sides and in the same location….right them down.
    Make the left turn, (same thing) right it down.

    So what we’re doing is finding the degree difference in the turns
    If we get a reading of 87.4* and 88.3* my caster is at .9*+ (but if you did not start out the way I did off the ball stud, it could could be .9*-)
    The need to understand the adjustment of the upper arm is important, just look down on upper control arm at first before you make a move this move will affect the camber. every time you move the upper. check the camber also

    My factory settings are this:
    “Camber“ 0.25*- to 1.25*
    “Caster” .5* to 1*+
    “Toe in” 0” to ¼”

    My Final adjustments came in @
    Passenger side "caster"
    89.4* and 88.7*= .7*+
    Drivers side
    89.3* and 88.6* = .7*+
    "Camber"
    P.S. .4*+
    D.S. .5*+
    Toe in @ 1/8”

    (Note: The camber plates rotate to and from 20* with no more moving around. )

    And Yes, my Pinto IFS has new everything. When I installed it I took my time and re-checked and triple checked to make sure that everything was correct. (That guy’s math had me worried!)
    That was a task was a bitch, this was so amazingly simple this dummy pulled it off!
    Conclusion:
    Unbelievable how much softer and smoother it rides over bumps. After making a turn the steering wheel comes back on it’s own, and I can let go of the steering wheel and it goes straight!
    Now it’s so relaxing to drive.


    For you, Most likely adjust your radius rod for some fine tuning of caster, the shims on the upper arm will move your camber much more then the radius rod. Life is all trial and error, that's how we learn.
    Last edited by Rickdees; 07-10-2011 at 09:03 AM. Reason: Me dumb

  10. #10


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    I did some more measurements and I put the string all the way around the truck after this finding.
    Wheel base measurement
    Passenger side is 109 5/16”
    Left side is 109”
    The string I centered the rear end and measured off the rims to square off to find where the IFS is sitting.
    Amazingly, the font end is off centered by 1/16.
    But since I have that discrepancy of 5/16. I laid out marks on the floor by squaring oft the tire center then off the rim, then measuring to see how far out of square.
    105 7/16"+ and 105 ¾"+ and that’s my 5/16" discrepancy
    The rear of the truck is walking/ dog legging
    I will adjust my link bars but not right now, I’ll wait until the bed comes off for paint.
    Much easier, and then after I will align it again
    Last edited by Rickdees; 07-10-2011 at 12:36 AM.

  11. #11


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    The daughter and I drove Christine to church this morning. The truck drove great but,
    when we got home of course I got curious on the alignment and it being so easy to do, I re-checked it.
    The passenger side caster moved .4* all the way to .9*+
    (Which is still in factory spec).
    Now is the time the radius arm needs adjusted. In your case I'll call it like the manual calls it in your truck, the strut bar.
    During my alignment I loosened the strut bar bushing (they are new) to relax them some, I did expect some settling in from it.
    This adjustment on the strut bar is very very sensitive to caster. On my IFS, a thirty degree turn on the nut moved the caster back to .1*+. Yours will differ, as it has nuts and washers on outsides of the bushing, but both do the same job.
    Remember every action, causes a reaction? So I set up the camber plates and got ready, only this time I placed one small piece of masking tape on the column with line on it making this 0* then turned the wheel and placed 2 pieces of tape on the steering wheel marking the 20* turns with lines and L and a R. Indicating what turn they are. Those marks will stay for couple weeks so I can keep an eye on things. Not using caster plates

    My first adjustments came in @
    Passenger side "caster"
    89.4* and 88.7*= .7*+
    Drivers side
    89.3* and 88.6* = .7*+
    "Camber"
    P.S. .4*+
    D.S. .5*+
    Toe in @ 1/8”

    Today’s adjustments
    P.S.
    89.3* and 88.5* = .8*+
    D.S.
    88.5* and 89.2*+ = .7*+
    Camber
    P.S. .5*+
    D.S. .5*+
    This is very tight settings!

    Yes I could go to the alignment shop and pay? and they’ll set my alignment to factory specs.
    Caster .5 to 1*+
    Camber .25 to 1.25*+
    Will they set both caster and camber to what I have shown you? Absolutely not, just in tolerance.
    The whole point here is be very picky with my alignment, close as possible settings makes a better drive and longer tire life. Saves money
    Last edited by Rickdees; 07-10-2011 at 11:29 PM.

  12. #12


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    As I said earlier, the truck was dog leggind a tad. The wheel to wheel measurement, one side was longer by 5/16”. I also mentioned adjusting the rear links later, but realized how critical I was when building the rear suspension.
    Did some more reading about my front end, if you look long enough you find it.
    (By the way, one of my search query’s this thread came up #1.)

    Yesterday, Sunday. 1st I made the correction, and made the simple mistake of not referencing off the ball studs. 2nd It turned out that I should have gone to church, First!
    Today, after work. working on the truck was much more pleasant. The “very first try” off the ball studs found out Sunday was really bad day for me, a -2* caster . After my re-adjustment on both wheels using the digital level setting @ 89.7 off the ball studs. One “very small” tweak on right camber.
    A turn on the camber plates, checking @ both wheels on the marks!
    Ding, ding, we have a winner!
    P.S.
    89.6* and 89.3* = .3*+.….camber .2+
    D.S. (ßforward)
    89.6* and 89.3* = .3*+…..camber .2+
    Toe in 1/8”
    I did absolutely nothing to the rear suspension. The wheel to wheel measurement is dead nuts!
    Note: If 2 people ride in my truck the camber will increase on the + side.

  13. #13


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    One more adjustment

    I did one more small adjustment I lost 1/10th of degree on the right front, and you can feel it.
    It just keeps getting easier, I now place the level on the disc brake. You can see the level isn't perfectly plum, but it is what it says it is

    Right side camber

    Right, Right turn caster

    Right side, left turn caster
    You do the math this time, and I tell you how great it drives and handles.
    AWESOME!

  14. #14



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    Just picked up a set of toe alignment plates off craigslist for $50; will post pics shortly. Also picked up 19 Quarts of penn grade 10w30 semi syn oil with zddp for $30. Lost bids on hunter alignment plates; they went for 117 ans 155 a set - was at work when they went off.
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  15. #15

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    Do you always measure the ball studs from the same place each time you turn and measure on one wheel? Or do you measure from front and back on the studs depending on which way the wheel is turned?
    Thanks for any input...

  16. #16



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    All measurements are directly through the center line. See the first gen factory manual for good pictures and understanding. I will be cutting up and making a PDF of my UTI training manuals. There the same age as our trucks and the information is good on all cars and trucks. It's great for the theory of how things work. From AC to brakes. It's all the same. I should have them up soon in the manual section.
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  17. #17

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    After looking into it further are you measuring caster from chamber changes at 20 degrees of turn off of the rim surface?

  18. #18

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    I know the theory of caster, but the mesurement is what I'm talking about. If the ball joint is stationary why take 20 degree turns to find caster off of the ball joint studs since the joints don't move through steering. But, if the above posts is talking about taking chamber difference measurements from the wheel it self while turned 20 degrees each way that would make sense to me. Is he taking caster measurements by the rim at 20* or ball studs at 20*?

  19. #19



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    I think there might have been a part missed from the original post. The hole thing was put in the Wiki with step by step instructions. The reason you put it on a turntable and rotate the wheels 20 degree is to locate the vertical line through the spindle when using a caster / camber gage. I never tried the level technical. I have the tables and gage. When turned out 20 deg the spindle is set at 0 for the caster. Then as you turn back to straight the gage will rotate. Even with the brake applied. Unless you are using a laser system. It's self leveling but you still need to rotate 20 deg.
    The deg does change as you are making turns. From 0 to + and back to 0 again from lock to lock. If that makes any sense at all. Just use 2 fingers on one hand and the other as the spindle and move the hand that is the spindle. The more the caster the larger the change is through the range of motion. This is why you add more + caster to the right side of the car then the left. This will push it up the road crown.
    Last edited by camoit; 02-07-2012 at 12:45 AM.
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  20. #20

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    Thanks for the input, so when using the digital level I guess you would read from the rim vertically instead of the ball joint studs for caster? The wiki mentions reference off the ball joint studs first but during 20* turns its not specific where the degrees are read from. Measureing off wheel angle or ball joints angle with 20* turn?

  21. #21



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    The degrees are read from the turn table the tire sits on.
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  22. #22



    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    03-16-2011
    Posts
    3,614
    Location

    Sacramento, CA
    Vehicle

    1979 Dodge D-50
    Engine

    Chevy V6
    I just set up a bunch of UTI PDF manuals in the manual section.
    This one will help in the hole geometry of alignments. <CLICK HERE> Take a look It's good info and will tell you more then we can in just a couple of lines here. Please feel free to skim through it. I knew I had it, I just needed to find it.
    Last edited by camoit; 02-07-2012 at 09:34 PM.
    Members come and members go, But the board keeps track of them.
    Check out the Fear Monger by
    clicking HERE.

    The MightyRam50 site is sponsored in part by On Site Concrete Inc.

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