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Thread: Possible head or head gasket issue?

  1. #1

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    Possible head or head gasket issue?

    Hey can anybody give a little advice? I have never done any engine rebuilding. My truck started running hot to the point where water would be boiling. I changed radiator, thermostat, water pump, timing belt, antifreeze, clutch fan and flushed cooling system once. I got where I could only drive it short distances about 8-10 miles because temperature would start rising to high. Anyway there seems to be a lot of condensation coming out of exhaust and water level only goes down slowly. There may be a little gas smell to antifreeze. My truck is a 1992 Dodge Ram with about 155000 miles. I did take the intake and exhaust manifolds yesterday and removed the head. Now I don't know what to look for. Should I take head to machine shop are there any in South Carolina that anybody would recommend? And if head gasket is blown or head cracked should I redo the head because bottom end has 155000 or should I now bite the bullet and do whole engine? I am a little intimidated about doing the whole engine. I hope I got some pictures on here. Thanks for time and help.
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  2. #2

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    I forgot to mention truck started smoking a little kind of like a white colored smoke with a little black in it also. I have 3 of these trucks now and this one is weak. Thanks again

  3. #3

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    Hey Artr01.

    The engine has obviously been opened before, by the looks of the gasket residue. I don't think that's an original-factory-gasket.

    My advice is to take it to a machine shop...you can usually locate one through your local NAPA...and have them test it for cracks. Then ask them to re-surface it, if you don't want to do it yourself. Finally, replace the valve seals and you will have less smoking, if not eliminating it altogether.

    If you have the head rebuilt, the block won't withstand the increased pressue and will likely start blowing rings and other uncomfortable personal parts. At 155,000 you have plenty of good motoring ahead, if you take the steps to really vamp this engine up...and it shouldn't take much.

    While you've got the engine this far down, be sure to clear the EGR passages through the manifold and head. Since I have a 4G64, you might benefit from cruising through my thread "Roy's Garage" http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin...ll=1#post26192
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  4. #4

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    In this photo, it appears to show a breach between #3 and #4 cylinders.
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  5. #5

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    Hey royster thanks for looking and the advice. There is not any machine shops I trust locally but I may try the Napa store in Columbia S.C. they have a machine shop there. I may be taking a trip there in the morning about 45 miles so not to bad. So you are pretty sure the gasket was blown. I know something was wrong. Would the gasket being blown cause it to be weak also? Like I said I have 3 of these trucks and this one is considerably weaker that is why I was wondering if I need to do the whole engine but if I could get by with the gaskets and head shaved that seems pretty easy. I will have to wait and see what the machine shop says I reckon to decide whether to do the whole engine or not. I am kind of excited to get started. I just had knee surgery a week ago and my wife was not real happy with me doing all this. I think I have another couple of weeks before they let me back to work so I have a little free time now. Thanks again

  6. #6

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    You're quite welcome.

    From the photos, I'd say the head gasket was breached..."blown" conjures up mental images of metal shrapnel, or my first wife. "Breached" indicates a slow leakage...again, hey! just like my first wife...that certainly affects everything else.

    But do let a couple other members chime in: I could be missing something.

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  7. #7

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    To me it looks like coolant is making it at least into #3 chamber as the valves are partially de-coked. The adhesive residue from the head gasket around #3 bore on the exhaust side of the block appears to have been scoured off slightly too (bypassing coolant will do this). So the head gasket is definitely the #1 culprit (may have been replaced and not re-torqued at the recommended run in period). Unfortunately you've already pulled the engine apart so you have no longer got the option of doing a compression test to see what the overall condition of the engine is really like. Yep, I'd send the head off for testing and have it overhauled. I'd tend to think you "shouldn't" need to do a bottom end tear down and rebuild at this point. If the head is solid you will only need to give it a light skim, a valve cut and some new stem seals and you'll be rocking.

  8. #8

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    Thanks geezer I did do a compression test a couple months back sorry I don't remember the numbers but they were a little disappointing seems like #3 was the worst one. I now know I should have wrote them down. I have done several top ends on 2 stroke dirt bikes but nothing much in the way of car engines so I will take the head to machine shop today or tomorrow. I think I will try just the head if it doesn't work I reckon I will pull the engine and do a complete rebuild. I know the head is suspect to cracks What about the block? I did buy this truck used. Anyway thanks for looking and the advice.

  9. #9

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    I have seen these blocks "spider crack" around the head bolt threads. It's not an overly common thing but you'll see them if they have appeared. The actual blocks and bottom ends on Mitsubishis are freaking incredibly tough - a stock bottom end on a 4G54 can handle 600 hp if it's healthy. I haven't seen any torture test figures on 4G64's but I'd imagine it could handle some of that action too.

  10. #10

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    Thanks again geezer I didn't make it to machine shop today will try tomorrow. I am just worried that I will do the head and the truck use oil. It wasn't really producing any blue smoke but was using some oil maybe because running to warm. I have a 1992 mighty max sport with 288000 but the motor is about tired on this one. I am thinking if all goes well with this one I might start on this engine. It is my favorite truck. Like I said new to internals on these engines and will probably be asking lots of questions like advice on gaskets etc. I know the information is on here and I will try to look. Thanks for your time.

  11. #11

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    Spend an extra $20 or so on the head gasket set: you won't regret it. The higher-grade set has every gasket you need to break down and clean the plenum and stuff...then put it back together right. (Even the EGR valve!) Cleaning the various components is beneficial for a few reasons: the cleaning allows you to familiarise yourself with the part, and what it does. It also makes for a better operating component (clean is always good). Finally, it makes for an impressive engine when it's all together.

    The higher grade gasket package also comes with valve seals, though only 4 are the good ones: the other 4 are rubber (for the intake valves) and I found them to be trouble...I ended up replacing them with the rigid ones because the rubber ones allowed smoke. I was confused by some small 'o' rings, but they were not for anything on my engine: the set also services the 2.0 . I ordered my set through Advance, though RockAuto might be a better source.

    The general consensus on the forum is that these engines smoke almost always because of worn valve seals, not worn rings.
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  12. #12

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    Roy is on the money with the dreaded 'blue smoke' that is often associated with Mitsubishi engines. Every Mitsu engine I have ever had a smoke issue with has been from dead valve seals. I once had a really smoky G32B that I swore was landfill, but after a fresh head it ran nice and clean. The good valve stem seals are either viton or silicon.

  13. #13

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    Thanks royster and geezer I really appreciate all the advice. I usually get all my parts from Napa I do not like advance. I will pay the extra for the more expensive kit and clean everything up good. Since I had knee surgery I have nothing but time so I will start cleaning. I hope the machine shop doesn't take to long as I am pretty excited about my project truck. If it goes well I am starting on my first Mitsubishi the 1992 sport with 288000 . I will be turning crank and boring this engine also new oil pump. I have NEVER been that deep in any engine. I know good advice will save money in the long run may cost more up front but I know I will be better off thanks.

  14. #14

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    My re-build was a learning experience, and thankfully this forum was here to help. My parts came from Advance (I don't care for them, either), NAPA and RockAuto. NAPA tends to be more expensive than the others, and for no good reason. Though I boycott Auto Zone because of their obnoxious advertising, I'm willing to give them a try, because lots of people are unhappy with Advanced and the competition is on...benefiting the buying public.

    I had to work on my D-50 during the dead of winter, and had plenty of time to clean and polish. In that process, I observed the components and how they work...got familiar with them so that they were no longer alien to me. Putting the engine back together was a good experience because I was working with clean, respected parts instead of greasy, dirty junk. The energy invested made a huge difference in the overall experience and results.

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    The greatest gift you have to give to the world is that of your own self~transformation.

  15. #15

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    Royster and Geezer I got my head to a Napa machine shop in Columbia S.C. and they will check everything out for me. I asked if they could weld if cracked and they answered no. But they said if cracked they knew somebody that did weld them. They are stopping if head is cracked. So now I am in wait mode so I will be doing some cleaning and ordering gaskets. I am going to Rock Auto website today even though I am not to comfortable ordering online but if it will save some money I will try it. I will try to keep you posted on my progress and thanks again for help and encouragement.

  16. #16

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    I'll place bets that the head is not cracked. Having a machine shop examine it is a great idea, and they'll also clean it up a bit so it'll look spiffy. Spiffy is good, on these engines.

    I wish I had known to have mine resurfaced, but at the time, I was very new to these engines. I got through the whole project just the same, with the help and encouragement of other members, so I'm just giving back what I was given

    If you intend to get another 20,000 miles out of this engine...and there's no reason not to (mine has 222,500) you should consider (*gasp* more expense) replacing the oil pump while you have things torn down. This will add another $200 to the major repair, but might be a cheap investment in the long run. You can read about my experience here - http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin...ll=1#post26527 and see what mistakes I made so as to avoid them.

    I did not replace the water pump, because it had been replaced in the not-too-distant past. Also, the water pump can be replaced without removing the timing belt.

    Food for thought...and let's have some photos of that truck!
    Last edited by royster; 09-10-2014 at 07:15 AM.
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    I luvit when people take a photo of their parts and their shoe always makes it into the photo, Never fails.

  18. #18

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    ...you know what they say about guys with big shoes Brad (they got big...feet) Fingers crossed, your head should be o.k.

  19. #19

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    in my opinion the head is most likely cracked between the valves in cyl#3 since it is the one and only cylinder that is cleaner than the rest(water in the combustion process will "steam clean" the head and piston) and is exactly what my truck did it would slowly run low on coolant and would run hot when i drove it the first time but after it would spike and then it would cool down and sit stable due to the head warming up and expanding and no longer leaking coolant but if yours is a worse crack it would just plain old overheat and i had to clean the head with a wire brush attachment on a drill to really see the crack i can get a pic if you want for example

  20. #20

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    Thanks Redneckmoparman I think I have seen some pictures of these heads cracking between the valves. I have already took it to a machine shop to resurface if not cracked. I told them to look for cracks first because they said they don't weld them. I don't know what to do if cracked where you are talking about. Can you weld there? Then I would have to find another shop that would weld it and not to many machine shops in South Carolina. I don't want to put a new head on this engine because it has 155000 miles on it. I am no engine man but not sure the bottom end could take it. I was hoping to get another 80-100000 out of engine before a complete rebuild. Truck still looks and drives good. I will try to post pictures of the truck maybe today. Nothing but good advice from this site. Thanks again.

  21. #21

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    Pictures of truck. My favorite truck in background. Only have 3 Trucks

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  22. #22

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    My favorite truck purchased new by my uncle.

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ID:	11191 After the head issue on my red truck is resolved I want to start on the engine in this truck. Complete rebuild on this engine needed. My wife can't stand these trucks. She complains about the ride all the time.

  23. #23

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    That red truck is in great shape! Hope all goes well with both of them.
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  24. #24

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    not many machine shops in the heart of nascar land? i find that hard to believe honestly but usually you have to find a dedicated head shop to do any work like that just call and ask around and do a bit of research i garuantee there are more than you realize and any half assed shop should be able to magnaflux the head to actually check for any leaks but they will usually charge around $40 to do so but these heads are really prone to cracking so having to find a new one will happen sooner or later for most

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