Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 40

Thread: Ruined engine? .. too hot.

  1. #1

    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    08-17-2013
    Posts
    39
    Location

    nova scotia
    Vehicle

    1988 Dodge Ram 50
    Engine

    4G93

    Ruined engine? .. too hot.

    Hello gentlemen,

    Borrowing your expertise in tech and troubleshooting... please.

    New here, fairly new little dodge truck owner... year and a half.


    My problem, a wicked overheating due to loss of coolant while highway driving.

    A lower split hose, out of sight under the power steering unit.

    Thought it was the water pump, as it has been squealing a bit, when first starting, due to lack of lubricants from lack of antifreeze.

    The bearing on the water pump was still fairly tight, not too much play.

    So while driving on a warm summer day, heat guage crept up, eventually smoke from unger the hood from engine grime burning off, the valves clattering, then had to drive on the side of the fast highway traffic to limp into a village... about five minutes.

    Knowing the engine was hot, hot, got parked, steam and smoke when I cracked the hood.

    Let it cool ten minutes, got water, started pouring in, saw the leak from around the back of water pump, [now know that was the hose split.]

    Waited another 15 minutes and decided to try it, the engine didn't sound great, but after holding down the gas and cranking alot the engine flared to life.

    The 2L was still alive! It idled so-so but I shut it down after a minute or so.

    Left the truck for two days.

    I had a ten minute drive to get the truck back home and carried 5 gallons of water. Two stops later while adding water, made it home with a little overheating... not bad.

    Here are some questions coming, after I did some work.

    A new water pump had already been ordered, so I put that in, new lower hose, new thermostat. I had the timing belt off, the big belt, did not fool with the little one... they are both in good shape.

    Now even though I did mark the upper cam gear and was careful reinstalling the belt as it had come off, it almost seems it is off by a tooth.

    Reassembled, took for a test drive, ten minutes.

    Symptoms:

    It has ''flat acceleration'', much less than before the overheating, is under-powered.

    It smokes now when starting... never did before.

    It backfires when taking foot off the gas, around 30 to 40 mph. ... third gear, from excess gas/fuel combusting, is my guess. Advanced timing?

    Finally running hot, antifreeze bubbling, rad burping.


    So what do you think?


    Has the engine been damaged much, valves screwed up, compression weakened?

    Is it perhaps just the timing off?

    I need to put that belt back on properly this time. I know where some marks are but not quite sure how to time it perfectly.
    Crankshaft in conjunction with cam, simply line up notches?

    Do not have a manual.

    Love the truck, good fuel economy, all the power[or had] all the power I need.
    There is a little over 200,000 k on her.

    Any tips, hints, help from you guys would be greatly appreciated, have the front pulleys off now, t-belt back off and wondering where or if I should buy another radiator as that is now leaking a bit!

    All the best,

    Bill e
    p.s. 2.0 L , 1988 five speed. Not sure what number/letters represent this engine.
    Last edited by camoit; 08-19-2013 at 06:28 PM.

  2. #2

    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    08-17-2013
    Posts
    39
    Location

    nova scotia
    Vehicle

    1988 Dodge Ram 50
    Engine

    4G93
    add:

    Lined up the timing marks top and bottom, truck starts fine now, sounds great, idles good, does not smoke when I gun it a bit. When a better rad is installed will try a road test to see if I have better performance and the pep is back in the engine.

    May have answered some of my own questions. Onwards.

  3. #3



    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    03-16-2011
    Posts
    3,614
    Location

    Sacramento, CA
    Vehicle

    1979 Dodge D-50
    Engine

    Chevy V6
    Do a compression check before going any further. We need to rule out a bad head gasket. These trucks are easy to blow the head up on if they over heat.
    Members come and members go, But the board keeps track of them.
    Check out the Fear Monger by
    clicking HERE.

    The MightyRam50 site is sponsored in part by On Site Concrete Inc.

  4. #4

    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    08-17-2013
    Posts
    39
    Location

    nova scotia
    Vehicle

    1988 Dodge Ram 50
    Engine

    4G93

    compression test

    Will do a test, see what she reads. Thanks for the heads up.

    ALSO

    Looking for a radiator now as well. The 2.0L shows a rad width of either 13 inches or 15, the one in the truck is almost 20 inches across and 16 iches deep. hmmmm.

    Wonder what other radiators I could install in place of the old one? Like from another make of car or truck?

    Could be a heating/cooling section in this forum, will look around. ,.,

  5. #5



    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    07-24-2012
    Posts
    2,357
    Location

    Washington State
    Vehicle

    1986 Mitsubishi Mighty Max
    Engine

    G63B
    There are many radiators you could probably use. Walk thru a wrecking and as long as your inlet and outlet are in the same spot and can fabricate a little you will have all the choices you want. If I remember right, I got mine from a chevy in a yard. I then installed relay with an electric fan from an oldsmobile achieva using a fan kit with dial setting. Been working fine ever since.

  6. #6



    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    03-16-2011
    Posts
    3,614
    Location

    Sacramento, CA
    Vehicle

    1979 Dodge D-50
    Engine

    Chevy V6
    OK not sure what was going on here but the Quick Reply box was not working on this thread.
    In the first post there was
    this text line: p.s. 2.0 L , 1988 five speed. Not sure what number/letters represent this engine.
    The text line was hidden inside the box described below.

    It was in a box all by it's self at the bottom and I could type in there. Quite strange,, SO I removed the box and edited the last line of his post. Now it's working again. IDK what or how that happened. If anybody has a problem with the Quick Reply box please send me a PM. Camoit.


    As for the over heating. Make sure you have a fan shroud. If you don't have one then get one from a Montero. It's metal and will help cool it down.
    Members come and members go, But the board keeps track of them.
    Check out the Fear Monger by
    clicking HERE.

    The MightyRam50 site is sponsored in part by On Site Concrete Inc.

  7. #7



    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    07-24-2012
    Posts
    2,357
    Location

    Washington State
    Vehicle

    1986 Mitsubishi Mighty Max
    Engine

    G63B
    Quote Originally Posted by camoit View Post
    OK not sure what was going on here but the Quick Reply box was not working on this thread.
    In the first post there was
    this text line: p.s. 2.0 L , 1988 five speed. Not sure what number/letters represent this engine.
    The text line was hidden inside the box described below.

    It was in a box all by it's self at the bottom and I could type in there. Quite strange,, SO I removed the box and edited the last line of his post. Now it's working again. IDK what or how that happened. If anybody has a problem with the Quick Reply box please send me a PM. Camoit.


    As for the over heating. Make sure you have a fan shroud. If you don't have one then get one from a Montero. It's metal and will help cool it down.
    Strange, When I replied I also had an issue and had to switch to advanced mode to reply to thread

  8. #8

    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    08-17-2013
    Posts
    39
    Location

    nova scotia
    Vehicle

    1988 Dodge Ram 50
    Engine

    4G93
    Did a 'dry' rudimentary check, compressions ran from 100 to a 70 to an 80 and a 90. Seems low 'eh, sounds okay though and the plugs all looked good, none wet, all brown to tan.

    Why am I taking ALL THE PLUGS out? Would I not get a truer reading by testing one at a time with the other plugs in?

    Also testing with rad out and just the timing belt on everything else is unhooked. Should I be?

  9. #9



    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    07-24-2012
    Posts
    2,357
    Location

    Washington State
    Vehicle

    1986 Mitsubishi Mighty Max
    Engine

    G63B
    Check the Manual section of the web site here. It will guide you down the right direction. You seem to have some problems with low compression.

    Any compression value below 100 PSI means internal mechanical Engine trouble.

    If Your Car Does Start, the very first thing you'll notice is that the Compression values you wrote down for each Cylinder are slightly different from one another. This is normal.

    What is NOT normal is if the values vary too much. The cool thing is that we can find out if the variations in the values, you wrote down, indicate a problem (with that Cylinder) or not.

    The rule of thumb is that they can not vary more than 15% from each other and if they do... you're gonna' have a genuine Misfire Condition on your hands or possibly a No Start Condition (if more than one cylinder is affected).

    How do you figure this out?... This is how you do it:

    1 Grab a calculator and multiply the highest compression reading that you recorded by .15.
    So, let’s say that cylinder #4 gave you the highest reading of 170 PSI. Well 170 X .15 gives you 26 (25.5 rounded off).

    2 Now, the next step is to subtract 26 from 170... which gives us 144 PSI.

    3 So then, 144 PSI is the lowest possible compression reading that any one of the rest of the engine cylinders can have. Any compression reading below this.. and that engine cylinder will misfire.

    To make better sense of the above calculation... let's say that my Mitsubishi produced the following Compression Test results:
    •Cylinder #1 175 PSI.
    •Cylinder #2 170 PSI.
    •Cylinder #3 165 PSI .
    •Cylinder #4 120 PSI .

    The next step is to do the math: 175 x .15= 26, 175-26= 149. So, now I know that Cylinder #4 is the one causing the Misfire!!

    You can squirt a little oil into each cylinder and if it gets higher PSI reading, your rings are toast.

  10. #10

    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    08-17-2013
    Posts
    39
    Location

    nova scotia
    Vehicle

    1988 Dodge Ram 50
    Engine

    4G93
    Great info Brad... and folks. You are a walking manual.

    Did a truer test, better tester, better conditions as per manual.

    Now reading from the rad end to the firewall.

    110-109-108-102... much to my relief, not bad for a 25 year old engine.

    Plus I had to dump in a liter or more of 20 w 15 motor oil in as I did not have any 5 w 30.

    Doing wet test next, will post what goes on with the rings.

  11. #11



    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    03-16-2011
    Posts
    3,614
    Location

    Sacramento, CA
    Vehicle

    1979 Dodge D-50
    Engine

    Chevy V6
    At lease it's evenly low. But you did heat the crap out of it. That probably did something to the pistons and head. Melted the valve seals or fused the rings to the pistons. It should be at least 120+ PSI dry cranking. If it was 70 then there is some major problems. It's fine to test with the plugs out. Does not change anything.
    But you also say you needed to dump in a large amount of oil. I'm sorry to say it but I would rebuild it. Depending on your cash flow you might be able to get away with an Okey rebuild. Just drop in pistons and rings and run the crap out of it. Pick up another engine and build it up while killing off the one you have. But if you have the money then do it the correct way. Have a short or long built up for you.
    Members come and members go, But the board keeps track of them.
    Check out the Fear Monger by
    clicking HERE.

    The MightyRam50 site is sponsored in part by On Site Concrete Inc.

  12. #12


    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    07-27-2011
    Posts
    255
    Location

    Nyssa, Or
    Vehicle

    1982 Dodge Power Ram 50
    Engine

    G54B
    or the old school way no more than 1 to 3 lbs. difference between each cylinder and a max of 5 lbs. difference from highest to lowest.

  13. #13

    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    08-17-2013
    Posts
    39
    Location

    nova scotia
    Vehicle

    1988 Dodge Ram 50
    Engine

    4G93
    good extra info guys, I like old school also like ''pick up another one'' ... idea.

    It has used about 3/4 liter of oil per change since I bought it, so used to adding. I have been using Lucas for older engines the last few changes and will likely continue.
    It doesn't smoke going down the road, if it was would have took it off the road long ago.
    See what happens once I get a new rad in it and drive... what damage that may have resulted from the heat up.

    By the way what is a good ''additive'' for older worn engines? Honey, risone, lucas, or maybe something better on the market?

    Oil test last night showed some good and bad. From the fire wall out.
    160-same-same-130.
    First reading tells me the ring is bad/stuck/welded as well as the last reading... would you agree?
    What other factors would give me a high ''oil test'' reading?

  14. #14



    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    03-16-2011
    Posts
    3,614
    Location

    Sacramento, CA
    Vehicle

    1979 Dodge D-50
    Engine

    Chevy V6
    So what you are saying on the last "wet" test your compression was: 160-109-108-130

    If that was the wet test then the 2 low ones may be swapping compression gas between the cylinders from a bad head gasket. If you do a CLT, (compression Leek Test) you can find where the air is going. You will need a compressor and your ear. With air going into the cylinder you listen and feel around the intake. tail pipe and valve cover. It will be coming out some where. You will here it or feel it.

    CLT tester

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	02-14-12_1153.jpg 
Views:	100 
Size:	44.7 KB 
ID:	6450
    Members come and members go, But the board keeps track of them.
    Check out the Fear Monger by
    clicking HERE.

    The MightyRam50 site is sponsored in part by On Site Concrete Inc.

  15. #15

    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    08-17-2013
    Posts
    39
    Location

    nova scotia
    Vehicle

    1988 Dodge Ram 50
    Engine

    4G93
    ''was: 160-109-108-130?'' yep,,, correct.
    Never heard of that test, will try it.Have a cleaner/blower nozzle will feed that into the compression tester hose, screw it into the spark plug hole, inject cylinder with air.
    Was going to do the basic, bubbles or big burp from the rad fluid as the car runs for a head gasket leak.
    Never seen water/sludge on the oil stick or cap.

    Thanks for the 'air' tip.

  16. #16



    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    07-24-2012
    Posts
    2,357
    Location

    Washington State
    Vehicle

    1986 Mitsubishi Mighty Max
    Engine

    G63B
    Such low compression and only burning just under a quart of oil between changes means your compression rings are history, but strangely your oil rings are still doing a decent job holding oil from passing through them which seems about right for these trucks. Checking plugs can give you an idea how cylinders of your engine are doing as well, but your going to have to give them a chance to show evidence after such a horrific overheating. The older Mitsubishi engines that came in our trucks can not handle overheating at all. Among other parts of these engines like Camoit mentioned that can be effected by overheating, you can bet that these parts were effected. Valve guides seals will harden among every other rubber part in the engine and the effects may not be immediate, but they will fail. Once you start burning more oil, your cat will clog and cause your engine all kinds of discomfort. Sort of like shoving a cork up an arsk and trying to take a dump.
    If your engine is running after all this overheating and bad compression readings, consider yourself luckier then most by far. I know by experience since I have replaced 4 heads even though I pulled over as soon as I could. It all is to blame on bad inferior casting materials and poor designing.
    You got lucky, but your engines future does not need a crystal ball to foretell. While you still have a running vehicle that can drive to a wrecking yard, start looking for replacement or rebuild quotes. If you wait, you could be offlined longer then you want since our parts are not available as they were a few years ago.

  17. #17

    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    08-17-2013
    Posts
    39
    Location

    nova scotia
    Vehicle

    1988 Dodge Ram 50
    Engine

    4G93
    head gasket blown ,,, no cat in this one,,,

  18. #18

    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    08-17-2013
    Posts
    39
    Location

    nova scotia
    Vehicle

    1988 Dodge Ram 50
    Engine

    4G93
    So to add to the sad tale, after the new rad, oil. filter, stat, hose, hours of labour, took her for a short spin, worked great, sounded good.
    But then the rad was building big pressure, boiling and bubbling in the run off jar with a strong smell of gas. Stopped after five minutes added some water, drove and parked. Maybe fifteen minutes slow driving.

    Went to start it, had to wait a half hour after many attempts she finally went.
    Drove three miles back home, cracked the hood.

    Oil cap had a foamy sludge build up already, so did the stick, didn't take a brain to figure out there is a major prestone internal leak.

    Out the bucks for two jugs of prestone, 50 buck oil change... ruined. A brand new rad in a crap engine.

    Priced a head gasket set, and just a head gasket... but is the head warped, will it need planing... most likely ... and so on

    Son of a B.tch.

    Found another 2.0L standard... 675 bucks taxes in plus shipping.

    215,000 k, been in the truck, in the yard since June 2005.

    If this engine is any good, will the sitting for years screw the head gasket... OR anything elsed?

    Thought to add another chapter . Oh my.

  19. #19

    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    08-17-2013
    Posts
    39
    Location

    nova scotia
    Vehicle

    1988 Dodge Ram 50
    Engine

    4G93
    Thinking this old thread ran out of gas... or interest. Try another realm in the forum to ask further... .

  20. #20



    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    07-24-2012
    Posts
    2,357
    Location

    Washington State
    Vehicle

    1986 Mitsubishi Mighty Max
    Engine

    G63B
    When my overflow bottle got pressurized and started making gurgling noises and stuff, my head gasket was done. I got the bottle so pressurized one day that the overflow bottle was ballooning it round, lol. I'm sure if I popped it open it would of shot hot water all over the place. It had clogged it's vent hole somehow, funniest thing to see such a hard plastic bottle as that misshapen by the pressure.

  21. #21

    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    08-17-2013
    Posts
    39
    Location

    nova scotia
    Vehicle

    1988 Dodge Ram 50
    Engine

    4G93
    ah, there is life after all. Still in a quandary... what to do? Head gasket, head gasket kit ? different engine?
    Just feel I would be taking a chance pulling the head, money, time and then still end up with bad rings, valve seals, etc. Maybe not. Opinions?

    What about steel seal, bar's? Anybody have faith in it? Warped head wouldn't seal, not too mention those sealers only seal parts of the gaskets, not where the real leaks are lurking.

    Should I chance gumming up the cooling system, maybe not have it work at all?

    If an engine sits for eight years what will those idle years do to the innards? Screw the head gasket?

  22. #22



    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    07-24-2012
    Posts
    2,357
    Location

    Washington State
    Vehicle

    1986 Mitsubishi Mighty Max
    Engine

    G63B
    lmao Bill, Just do it my friend...you got us on the edge of our seats with this. Just grab some tools and start peeling that thing apart like it owes you money. No more procrastinating...and I know procrastinating...I do it too!

  23. #23

    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    08-17-2013
    Posts
    39
    Location

    nova scotia
    Vehicle

    1988 Dodge Ram 50
    Engine

    4G93
    oh man... you are really going to make me do this? well... okay then, had to take a break and actually earn some sort of living. What's another 200 bucks, 'eh.

  24. #24

    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    08-17-2013
    Posts
    39
    Location

    nova scotia
    Vehicle

    1988 Dodge Ram 50
    Engine

    4G93
    Was gonna throw some pics up, looks like not an option.

    Grabbed tools, exhaust manifold is off.

    Surprised that 95% of the nuts held long enough to thread off AND of course one had to strip, 11 mm would not tap on, so the dremel zipped that off flush to the manifold.

    Some you guys live in salt free, rust free zones, not so here, we have 7 months of salted roads, ice, slush, and rotted vehicles.
    As this little guy is or was, I have welded and pounded just about every inch of this truck to knock off a thick coat of rotten metal and then added pieces to the frame.... and wherever else it was needed.

    Many would have ''pushed the truck over the bank'' long ago. But I am a stubborn codger.

  25. #25



    Array
    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    07-24-2012
    Posts
    2,357
    Location

    Washington State
    Vehicle

    1986 Mitsubishi Mighty Max
    Engine

    G63B
    lol, no pushing these trucks over cliffs...it could hurt someone.
    Get some Maguire's wax and find some place where they are re-asphalting and drive that baby thru it like crazy. Free undercoating.
    Actually some of that rust killer paint is pretty good. Just hit up those bad spots and it will turn it to primer, Then undercoat. Ratcheted open end wrenches are pretty helpful on these trucks. Glad to see you finally getting her fixed, she will appreciate it.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •