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Thread: My Turbo'ed 8V 4G64, Complete Write-UP

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    My Turbo'ed 8V 4G64, Complete Write-UP

    So, it's been quite a few years since I've posted an update on this forum. Since then I have sold the truck, bought it back, and completely rebuilt it again. This thread is to showcase my 400whp ballpark 8V 4G64, provide all he information on how you can do it as well, and answer any questions that you may have. Currently the truck is on a Microsquirt ECU. Stock head/cam/intake. I rebuilt the engine 2 years or so ago with OE CR cast 0.020" oversized pistons and factory rods. Images and documents will be posted below. This will be pretty lengthy.


    Let's begin with how/why these engines are able to actually make great power for relatively cheap and the upgrades I'm currently planning to aim for the 500-600whp mark now that E85 is available local to me. I will also go into detail on what can be done to your engine, and how to setup your 4G64 truck for Microsquirt.


    A lot of people believe the 8V head is too "restrictive" to be useful. In reality, on a turbo setup, that doesn't matter entirely, because you are forcing the air in. Yes, efficiency of how fast you can get it in/out is important, but the stock head does that just fine! Sure, a 4G63 head flows better and has some more aftermarket support, but the 4G64 has some things we can do to make improvements as well. I'm taking a spare head off to my local machine shop and we are going to flow bench test it to see what the numbers are and maybe where we can make any improvements, but so far I haven't found the need for it.


    Cam and springs? Schneider can do you a cam grind and sell you some 6610 valve springs. RPW also sells billet cams, but they are super pricey. G54B chromoly beehive springs can also be used. As far as the valves themselves, I'm waiting to see if any over-sized valves will even help or hurt the performance of these heads. But in stock form, they perform better than they're credited.


    The engines come with a factory CR of 8.5:1. Factory forged cranks, cast pistons, and same big rods as the 1G 4G63T. The main limiting factors are the pistons and head bolts up to 400whp, and I'll explain why once we talk about boost. Rods should be good to 500~ You will need to make sure you gap your rings accordingly as well.


    Max boost? Due to the 8.5:1CR these engines will hold 15psi reliably on pump gas (91-93oct) all day. The pictures shown are the calculations for EFC (Effective Compression Ratio). This is the formula primarily used and considered most accurate when calculating levels of CR increase with boost. At 15psi we are around 12:1. This is easily achieved with lower total timing, and should net you around 350whp on these engines. The biggest complaint I've seen are people not making over 20psi because the head gets too "restrictive". This isn't the case. It's because we are outside the realm of running pump gas anymore! At 20psi we are seeing around 13:1 CR. This can be run on pump, but you have to have a GREAT tune. This will put you around the 400whp area. I've run 20, but for no longer than 1/4 mile pulls until I move to a different fuel. This is also why I lifted my head at 22psi before. Cylinder pressure is too great, and factory head bolts/cast pistons should not be used above 20psi. The safe area on these engines is generally 15-18psi depending how good your tuner or you are.


    Head studs? I am still working with ARP on studs and have yet to try the ones I posted before. 4G63 studs will not work for our engines.


    Fuel system? DSM injectors fit our rails. Go with the high impedance so you don't have to run a resistor box. A walbro 190 LPH fuel pump is what majority of the people will need. It will be good for around 400-ish HP +/-. You'll also want an AFPR (adjustable fuel pressure regulator) that has a 1:1 rising rate for boost. I believe the evo X fittings work, or you can have an AN fitting tigged to the rail.


    Ignition? Stock distributor. It has the same CAS as a 1G 4G63T in the base. It will pulse crank and cam signal. It can also be used to trigger waste-spark coils.


    Turbo manifold? Would need to be custom made. What I did is had a buddy cut me out an exhaust manifold flange, and I built my own.


    The 5spd transmission (R5M21) will need the tuff pan on anything close to 350hp or greater to prevent the case from expanding/seperating. I recommend DFab designs. Their billet pan is amazing! (Images will be posted below). For the clutch and flywheel. I'm currently running the heavy stock flywheel. Ebay 'stage 5' 6 puck unsprung clutch. It's supposedly rated for 350hp and 380tq, I have spun it at the top of 20psi, but I would recommend a traditional sprung style for street driving. I'm going to get in contact with Centerforce to see if they can hook me up with a lighter flywheel and sprung clutch combo.


    ECU? I'm running the Microsquirt AMP'd V3. I have created and am providing a full PDF write-up on how to Microsquirt your truck as well. Of course this isn't the only ECU option available, but is very budget friendly/gets the job done without issues. You could go with Link, ECMLink, Haltech, etc. Though, I will say for the cost of ECMLink and the little it offers, I would choose one of the others.

    I HIGHLY recommend the AMP'd version Microsquirt because it has the built-in pull-up resistors we need for our distributor to function properly so you don't have to wire your own resistors in. More detail is in the PDF.


    My next goal is 500whp. I will be going forged pistons and eagle rods. Also going with an E85 fuel setup if my local gas station continues to test good quality. If not it will probably be seeing alcohol injection. I'll see if the R5M21 will hold up, but if not I will probably swap to a Mazda R trans used behind the G54B in the Mazda pickups.


    I have been beating on this truck HARD for the past year on 18-20psi and have had no issues. The one time I lifted the head was on a piggy back fuel system before switching to a standalone ECU, and roughly 22psi+ hit. 15psi is perfect daily potential for reliability and fun!
    Last edited by Low9Life4; 01-23-2024 at 06:52 PM.

  2. #2

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    Here is the PDF write-up I created on Micosquirting the trucks. Maybe we can get this document uploaded to the forum? For right now I'm sharing it via GoogleDrive, and anyone should be able to download it.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UCn...ew?usp=sharing

  3. #3

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    Here are the calculations for EFC (Effective Compression Ratio) with boost

    Attached Images

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    And now starts the following images of where my truck is currently. I'm going to be moving to a single bulkhead connector to rid the firewall of the atrocious factory wiring harness. I'm also getting my charge piping welded up and a forward facing intake setup for a cleaner look. I will be cutting all the inner fenders out, possible partial tube chassis up front, as well as cutting the bed floor with some custom suspension work front and rear.

    Attached Images

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    Here is an OE pressure plate and clutch compared to the ebay setup. I did have to have the flywheel resurfaced as well due to some hotspots. Also a comparison on the billet tuff pan from Dfab designs compared to the stock pan.

    Attached Images

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    This is a Photoshop edit I created of my truck for how I want it took look once I move to body work. The wheels are 10x15 Eagle Alloys.

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  7. #7

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    If you have any questions I will try to respond as quickly as I can.

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    Thanks for sharing. Good information. What made you go the Microsquirt route vs Speeduino? Myself, I have Edis 4 with 36 1 wheel on crankshaft with Megajolt but looking to get the Speeduino No2c or ua4c and have the ability for efi later since im carbed now.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by TintedRam50 View Post
    Thanks for sharing. Good information. What made you go the Microsquirt route vs Speeduino? Myself, I have Edis 4 with 36 1 wheel on crankshaft with Megajolt but looking to get the Speeduino No2c or ua4c and have the ability for efi later since im carbed now.

    To my understanding Speeduino doesn't offer quite as many features as Microsquirt/Megasquirt does

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    I'm curious how the axle might hold up to that kind of power. Did you add/change anything to prevent axle wrap? What about snapping an axle shaft? Or twisting a driveshaft? I know these trucks are surprisingly tough considering they were built as cheaply as possible, but 500+ HP is a lot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fingers View Post
    I'm curious how the axle might hold up to that kind of power. Did you add/change anything to prevent axle wrap? What about snapping an axle shaft? Or twisting a driveshaft? I know these trucks are surprisingly tough considering they were built as cheaply as possible, but 500+ HP is a lot.
    It's been holding up to the 400 fine so far. No weird noises or slop in the gears, and plenty of boosted launches. As goes for the axle wrap, I'm switching to a 4 link and coil overs on the rear to help. Truck hooks pretty decent even with the open diffs, because these weight transfer very well on the leaf springs. I'm probably going to swap a montero rear end in for LSD. Also haven't broken the driveshaft yet. Tbh, I'll probably find the limits of them eventually the old fashioned way lol, but for now everything is doing great.

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    OUTSTANDING!! subscribed!

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    Kodos to you for 1). completing the task.... and 2). reporting back to share with the club


    what size turbo ?


    stock diameter clutch ?
    I'd think you could go up to starion 240mm, with a redrilled flywheel. Clutch 'looks' bigger vs oem, in photo tho
    Some hairy starion 2.6 get by with ebay XTD versions. Most had their starion heavy oem flywheel lightened(under $100 back then)


    Schneider cam & 6610 springs very popular with the starion 2.6 crowd. Mostly negative feedback, some with dynos to prove
    their quality control is the issue. They've proven capable, but there's a "slim" chance you get it 1st try
    Aussies ran way better quality SOHC cam from camtech, wade, crow, sure, thighe.
    Ton of info/R&D since their staz came with the 2.0, and quite a few upgraded to a 'hot' 2.4 SOHC. Also their oem valvetrains are mechanical, not hydraulic
    Its wierd I can't remember what ARP stud....perhaps because many reused oem staz headbolts held up fine in street builds


    Just a side not, probably the most impressive starion clubmember 2.6, imported a magna intake for his multiport conversion.
    Along with a 'street-performance' cam from an aussie 2.6 guru. Ran 12.4 sec at only 13psi!
    Demo ride spiked 30psi. Couldn't keep the car straight. Passenger owned a 10 sec mustang said, "my car pulls nowhere as hard as this thing"
    A QUALITY ground camshaft makes all the difference in the world. Receive a dud, SOHC gets the blame

  15. #15

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    I wouldn't dismiss leaf spring. cars down into the 7s on 225 radials!


    Study your gearing as SOHC aren't hi rpm screamers. Gear it too short would mess it all up


    DSMs copied all their early tuning from the buick GN guys - scan port: knock sensor tuning, MAFT, O2 volts, etc.
    Pump gas + injection still fine today, for those higher boost spurts. Pump gas daily. Spike fuel if you wanna go crazy

  16. #16

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    It's a 64mm (turbine size) with a 76mm inlet size 50 trim. Just your regular run of the mill Ebay T04E going strong.

    And I have debated on seeing how leaf suspension does with a 4 link, adjustable shock, and lowering/de-arched leafs to get rid of the blocks. Not sure how I feel about de-arching the 30yr leafs yet. Biggest reason I wanted to move to coil overs is the truck will be mainly used for road course style racing and spectator drags over drag strip runs. But I need to due something to rid the axle wrap. I have considered the RPW custom billet cams, (they're like $900), or if I could somehow find a stateside company to help me out with it. Biggest issue is still trying to figure out whether or not any head work will help or hurt performance. A port and OS valves could show great numbers on a flow bench, and totally different reflection on a dyno/real power gains. The stocks can be ground to a 294 to my knowledge w/ dome head work, but that's pretty rowdy for the street. I was thinking 272-284 grind area if I went that route on the cam.

    I measured the clutch at one point, and can't remember what size it is, but it's definitely bigger than the OE. I would love to be able to get my hands on a light flywheel with the replaceable surface area, but finding one foe this application would probably be difficult, so having the stock one lightened might be the route I go instead. As for the head bolts, I'm still going to try to work with ARP on a set (we think we found a set from a nissan platform that will work), just so I don't risk lifting the head again.

    I've been in over my head with customer projects lately, but plan to start back on the truck, hopefully, this weekend.

  17. #17

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    Very good info though! And yeah, with the 6610 springs or chromoly I'm keeping the limiter to 6k. It seems to still pull strong until valve float on stock springs around 5500, which is where my limiter is currently set to. I do wish that 1st gear were longer on the stock R5M21's.

  18. #18

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    when doubling torque, gearing always become "too short".... especially going n.a. to boost. Even upgraded starions have same problem

    SOHC ARP studs, as austarion guys done it way back https://starionclub.com/forum/ TON of 4G info
    https://starionclub.com/forum/viewto...+studs#p160670
    https://starionclub.com/forum/viewto...+studs#p162257
    https://starionclub.com/forum/viewto...+studs#p164088
    Maybe your findings wont need the 10mm spacer


    no need for a $900 billet. Cam only need to be done properly.
    A meticulous starion clubmember measured his cam, and had to get assertive with Schneider to regrind another.
    Cam #2 matched the card this time. Had to change the tune as motor ingested more air. Dyno'd almost 100 hp more


    I'd leave cyl head mods for last on the list. Most of the faster starions never touched the head


    Direct your efforts toward finding the SOHC bottleneck instead
    could be the turbine wheel


    A DSM documented his build. Stock 2.0, stock cams. Quality valvesprings and was adamant on a custon intake manifold
    Chucked on the dyno for fun. Kept boosting until 40psi on the popular $150 holset HX35. Revved 8500+, hit 600 hp
    So I'm thinking its not the oem cam or hydraulic lifters ?

    https://deltacam.com/ is a stateside outfit with dyno proven DSM regrinds. Its my SOHC cam choice for when I get to that point
    Another DSM ran their 272s + valvesprings.... otherwise stock motor. Same Holset HX35 @33psi. Street car 10.1sec! Rippin

  19. #19

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    Unfortunately I believe those G54B head bolts won't work for the 4G64 as they do the G63B. Maybe for the 6 bolt variant (90-92), but my 7 bolt engine uses 11mm head bolts whereas the G54B/G63B and 6 bolt 4G64 use the 12mm. It's a possibility to have the block drilled and tapped for the 12mm and drill the head as well +1mm, which I have considered before. But then the head bolts would still be too short (105mm vs 118mm if I remember right) I'm not sure what the G54B length is, but assuming a 10mm spacer has to be used with the G63B, and taking crush factor in, maybe +/- 115mm overall length?
    .

  20. #20

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    Great job on the build. Im planning on doing the same thing to my truck in the future. Instead of microsquirt i am going speeduino in a piggy back config. I currently have a piggyback harness setup with the stock ecm in place to control the idle motor and timing while the truck isn't boosted, it also helps with starting sense it opens the throttle at start.

    would you mind sharing your fuel and timing tables along with injector part numbers? it would give me a good starting point to work with when i get around to finishing my build. i was going to just use high impedance 550cc or 650cc to start with.

  21. #21

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    Thanks! And, I don't share my personal tune fuel/timing files because what your setup needs could be totally different, especiallywith sensor calibrations/scaling. But I do offer remote tuning and harness building services for Microsquirt/TunerStudio setups.

  22. #22

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    I had originally ran the stock ECU with a MAF-T and GM 3BAR MAF sensor as a piggyback fuel controller when I first turboed the truck, but it's very finicky to work with and dial in correctly. Once I lifted the head around 22-25psi is when I moved to Microsquirt because I didn't have any way to control timing besides backing the distributor down to 0⁰ adv to pull more out the total/entire curve. At the time I wasn't sure if it were timing or the EFC that had caused it until I'd done the math. It was probably a little of both tbh.

  23. #23

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    some comments
    projectzerog forum had a number of built DSM powered pickups, put truck oe 5speed & diffs to the test


    a hi strung DSM/2.4 truck thread on projectzerog, said he cracked 3 truck blocks, heading for 500hp. His DSM blockok ~800


    ok so 7-bolt here, hence the different head bolt/studs and oddball flywheel application
    Luckily, light flywheels won't make any measureable 'performance' difference, due to the rev nature of these motors.
    Starion oe was a whopping 36 pounds, so shaving off in the rahge of 15 pounds was the norm/happy(& safe) zone.


    Maybe that oe 7 bolt was drilled for a bigger diameter clutch ? starion 240mm perhaps


    I'd think DSMs would have a hard time hitting 400whp on a T04E @20-22psi.


    exactly which cast pistons used in your rebuild ? I ask because some street DSMs went past 30psi om stock and $90 NPR replacements
    A few claimed NPR supplied oem DSM pistons

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by dash View Post
    some comments
    projectzerog forum had a number of built DSM powered pickups, put truck oe 5speed & diffs to the test


    a hi strung DSM/2.4....
    There are a few factors in this we have to consider. While the 7 bolt 4G63 has the same static CR as the 4G64 in our trucks (8.5:1) the 1G is 7.8:1CR. So, naturally the 6 bolts will make less power per # of boost besides turning up timing to accommodate yhe lower CR numbers. Then we have overall displacement (bore, stroke, combustion chamber CC) mixed with cam specs (lift, dur, overlap), valve sizing/velocity. These trucks make 350whp consistently around 15psi on smaller turbos than I'm running. If we do the basic principle of 10hp per # of boost (of course this is relative and could be +/-) we should be around, should, 400whp @20psi+/-. Not to mention a lot of DSM guys run very low timing. When doing my setup I was constantly recommended nothing more than 12⁰-13⁰ total timing at 15psi, which is ridiculously low. Not sure why a lot of G63T guys do that, but there is no reason to be that low. I generally have 16⁰-18⁰ in my daily driving street tune total timing @15psi. There's a lot of HP loss when going to 12⁰.

    Where was the block cracking? Cylinder walls? Besides deck height and some oiling designs I thought the G64 and G63 were pretty similar in design. I know the newer gen 4G64's than our trucks run are used often in hybrid builds, but they also use our truck blocks. I know the 4G63 2G block is good up to about 800 on a wet deck/unfilled block with sleeves. After that dry deck, filled, sleeves, and oringed block will put you way into the 1000+ margin until you start warping the deck surface some. I may look into sleeves if the cylinder walls were giving out.

    The main reason I want to run a lighter flywheel is just a little quicker revs, and honestly the OE one is ridiculously heavy. It would probably be beneficial in a drift build though, due to the inertia energy helping out in transitions, but that's just wild guessing.

    I'm using just some DNJ cast 0.020" pistons. I could probably push them farther (they've seen 25psi a few times due to original waste gate issues when I first was running on the piggyback), but I'm very hesitant to push cast pistons past the cylinder pressures of 400whp.

  25. #25

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    early DSMs monitor knock and targeted low 20s timing, but various fuel recipee to keep it happy
    I agree, 12-13 sound way low, especially for 7.8, even pump gas


    I posted some info way back on an Oz staz 2.4 stock piston, perf cam/springs, big plenum foward-facing, gt30/40 ~350whp/380tq
    I'm really curious to see what this 'other mitsu truck motor' can do boosted street. LSRMike was a different target
    probably go no further than cast piston take me. Don't wanna find out where the block faints


    I'm not sure if this cracking isn't a "mitsu thing". We've had a bunch of starion member cracked G54
    DSM/Truck guy didn't get specific, only warned in his build thread. He said he was at 800hp on his DSM block replacement. No crack

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