Yes and now quaker state oil is selling Defy - an oil that has some zddp to reduce wear on older motors. Not sure about it, just found it a wally mart the other day
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Yes and now quaker state oil is selling Defy - an oil that has some zddp to reduce wear on older motors. Not sure about it, just found it a wally mart the other day
Pennyman, would this ZDDP and ethanol issue affect my '94 BMW 318? I used Shell 91 octane gas, it says on the pump there's up to 10% ethanol.
the ethanol definately, the zddp less so but it won't hurt using an oil with it - it wasbuilt when zddp was standard in the oil. The zddp issue only started in the last 3-5 years, so the effect on older motors won't been seen for a while, depending on how much and how hard the vehicle is used. The defy oil sounds like a good compromise if the oil is good - haven't used Quaker state in years.
I've always had good luck with Mobil. I found this chart of their oils with ZDDP contents listed.
http://www.mobil.com/usa-english/mot...duct_guide.pdf
any mass market gas engine oils are bad for older vehicles without the zddp additive. Diesel oils for the most part seem to still have the ZDDP, but running a heavier weight oil than 10w-30 in an older vehicle could cause issues if the motor is sludged up from poor oils or infrequent oil changes. I knew one guy that ran his d-50 on non-detergent diesel oil because the guy he bought it from ran it that way from new with no problems.
Just changed the oil on the Bimmer 4 banger with Mobil 1 5W-30 and STP oil treatment. The STP stuff is thick as honey. Poured out real slow. Also tried 8 oz. of Amsoil gasoline treatment in a fresh tank of gas because Allied didn't carry Stabil and the Amsoil stuff seemed like a similar product based on this chart:
http://www.fuel-testers.com/is_gas_a..._e10_list.html
We'll see how it goes.
Hi all, I'm waking up this thread form a long nap...
I'm about to do my first oil change on the truck, and came up upon this thread and the zddp issue. There's good information here, and from reading the opinions here and some quick research online seems like there's is no argument on whether or not we need zddp in our trucks. The only question seems to be to whether use an oil with the zddp already in it, or use an additive.
Since the information in this thread is several years old, I wanted to ask the experts here (specially pennyman) if there is any new available information that you might be aware of that could help me make the decision on which route to go down.
Seems like the formulations on the oil products change frequently, and not all manufacturers are totally upfront with the information, that's why I would like to hear from the experts with real life experience.
These are the things I'm wondering about the oils and the additives:
Oils-
1. What are some of the oils with zddp added currently available that you would recommend?
2. Any idea what's the correct concentration of zddp in the oil needed for the best protection? And do any of the available oils have that amount? Valvoline VR1 has 1,300 ppm of zddp, is that enough?
3. Is it safe to use a diesel oil with zddp in it on a gas engine (2.6)?
Additives-
1. There were two that were mentioned in the thread, Eastwood and STP. Wondering if anyone has experience with both of them, and which one do you think is the better option.
2. This thread and opinions are form 2011, any newer product in the market that you would recommend?
3. How exact does the amount of additive to oil need to be? For instance the Eastwood additive is 4 oz and treats 4-6 qts, my 2.6 engine takes 5 qts of oil, can I add the whole bottle of additive, or do I need to leave some out?
4. The STP additive is 15 oz, which is basically half a quart. Since that's not an insignificant amount of fluid, do I need to adjust the amount of oil I'm using (use 4.5 qts instead of 5)?
As always, I'm amazed at the amount of great information that can be found here, and the willingness of the members to share it.
Thank you.
I'll throw my hat in the ring. I use comp cams break in additive with every oil change. 1 bottle per oil change should give you the 1000+ppm of zddp that is generally recommended for older engines. I used to run Shell rotella 10-30. Diesel engine oils have more zinc than standard auto oils. I switched to mobil1 high mileage 10-30 for longer oil change intervals. The amount of time it took the oil pressure needle to come off the peg on very cold days (-10F) was alarming, so I ended up switching again to mobil1 0-30 (i've found it at walmart and amazon, but not the parts stores). I find the 0-30 builds pressure quickly on the critical start up period and actually has more pressure at idle than the 10 weight. I believe this is because the pump is able to lift it out of the pan easier.
In my opinion, comp cams break in additive is the way to go. Add it to any oil and you shouldn't have to worry. Even diesel engine oils are lowering their zddp amounts as catalytic converters find their way to large diesel engines. Also, Pretty sure these are 4.5 quart engines. I add 1/2 quart of the additive and 4 quarts of oil. If you don't use one already, grab a filter for one of the diesel engines. Same specs as the standard 2.6 filter, but with 1.5 times the filter media. I have a thread on it.
most of the Rotella diesel oil no longer has any ZDDP - it was removed for the same reason as the gas motors - 100k converter warranties, and ZDDP killing the converters at 75 - 80 k. The comp cams break in additive is a good choice to add to regular oil, or you can get amsoil or redline with ZDDP. Even royal purple has a line of oils with ZDDP.
Giovanni- Thanks for the tip on the comp cams additive. Is the 1,000+ ppm the sweet spot we should be aiming for? I haven't found any specific info on that, but it looks like it might be the right concentration since the zddp added oils also seem to be around that number.
Found your thread about the larger oil filter (for diesel), very cool thanks, will look into that. Here it is in case anyone else is wondering http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin...zed-oil-filter
Pennyman- Thanks for the feedback, I checked out he oils you mentioned, and like the Valvoline VR1, they seem to be around 1,200-1,400 ppm, so I'm going to assume that this is the right concentration window.
Other than price (using an additive being cheaper than using a high zinc oil), are there any other advantages to go with an additive like comp cams, eastwood or STP, over the high zinc oil?
I'm going off memory on the 1000ppm. I remember reading comp cams literature that one bottle treats 5-7 quarts for a new cam break in. The need for zddp is diminished slightly with new oils, because they have a higher shear strength. ZDDP creates a sacrificial layer between the cam lobe and lifter. When all of the oil was squeezed out from between the lifter and cam lobe, the zddp would act like a dry lubricant. The more valve spring pressure you have, the more zddp you will need. You really need to get the engine up to temp for the zddp to actually adhere to the sliding surfaces, so make sure you don't only do short trips. The reason I use the comp cams, it's easy, and I can run any oil I want. Most of the racing oils at the parts store are 15-40 or 20-50. With the balance shafts removed in my engine, I'm making 90psi of oil pressure running down the highway with a 30 weight oil. I don't burn any with a 5k change interval. I don't have any valve train noise. A heavier weight oil is only beneficial under heavy loads (racing) and in worn engines where the clearances have opened up.
When I put my non jet valve head on I put in Schneider heavy duty valve springs. That was at 195k miles (a friend of mine was the first owner of the truck, he rebuilt the engine at 90k). I just rolled 255k miles. If I was going to chew a cam lobe, it definitely would have happened in the last 60k miles.
Any of the specialty high zddp oils will work fine if you can get them in the proper viscosity. I like the additive for the convenience and price. I do a full synthetic oil change with an oversize filter for 35 bucks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPaco
^^^ Great stuff, thank you!
I think I'll try either the valvoline vr1 (it comes in 10w30, and the price is not too bad when buying a case), or the comp cams additive, not sure yet.
Is this the one you are using? Or this one?
Those are the same, they just changed the packaging from black to silver bottle. I bought a case of 12 on ebay for under 100 bucks with free fast shipping.
BradPenn is a semi synthetic with ZDDP - available through NAPA.
Oh man, just when I thought I had a plan you open up another rabbit hole for me to go down... ok, semi synthetics, here we go...Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyman1
Just kidding, thank you for the help :grinno:
Castrol 10w-40 + one Castrol 20w-50 (summer months)
Castrol 10w-40 (all other months)
WIX Filter
No SMOG checks in Hawaii :P
Hope the hydraulic lifters have enough self adjustment to go 500,000 miles before needing anything more than motor oil :scratchheadblue:
Thanks for this info pennyman & everyone :oldtimer: