G63B or T350?

Hi! I'm Jen. So I need y'alls advice:

So a friend of mine is engine swapping the 5.7L V8 T350 from his cutlass (not sure on the year). He said there's nothing wrong with it, just wanted more power and asked if I wanted it. I'm interested in the prospect as it quadruples the HP and torque compared to my 2.0L G63B, but my main concern is fit and the strain on the frame. Can the frame handle it? If not, can I strengthen the frame to allow it to? Will it fit under the hood with little modding? It's gonna cost me more overall but makes it way more of a sleeper lol

Alternatively, I can keep the G63B in there and mod it to 150+ HP. The engine runs, but it runs really rough and definitely needs to be tuned and rebuilt. The transmission is good bc I rebuilt it a couple years ago. This option would be A LOT cheaper and less work but I'll still need to pull the engine out to rebuild it.

I'm a decent mechanic and have been working on this truck since I was 13 barring a couple years where it wasn't driven by me. My overall go with Susan (the name of my truck) is for it to be my fun, project car since I have a new car as my daily driver. I don't have a large budget, but I can allocate funds as need to her. If you guys could help me out and give me your opinions I'd really appreciate it!

The frame will handle it but be aware of clearance issues like engine sump to front cross member etc. So, you have alternatives. The G63B will make 125 HP + with a decent intake (the standby Weber 32/36 will hit the wall @ 125 HP max) as the new go-to is the Weber 38DGES. IF you are prepared to make something exotic, you can build an intake using quad carbs and a modded manifold. They are a huge leap in fuel economy, throttle response and all round performance. The manifold and carbs are not an off the shelf solution but bike carbs get swapped onto car engines all the time. Add the usual upgrades - exhaust headers, port work, shaft deletes, wide duration cam. This can be done on a budget and is mostly bolt on mods and machine work.
* I'd use carbs with 39mm throats - they will flow the same as a pair of 45 DCOE Webers without the low down throttle lag and gawdawful fuel economy.

Next - G63B SOHC turbo. The head + pistons (or whole engine swap) off a Cordia/Tredia turbo and all of the ancillary stuff to run it - instant power, no real fabrication work. Biggest part of this is adapting ECU + wiring harness. Once you have the engine in place, you can think about turbo mods - intercooling, bigger turbo, boost control, 3" exhaust. It'll fly. The stock 5 speed will live with this comfortably unless you are brutal on it. Worse case scenario, install a reinforced transmission sump cover plate. If you install one that is of at least TUFFPAN quality, the trans will move 500 horses without tearing apart.

Then the big guns - 4G63 twin cam turbo power. Covered on a lot of forums and is a popular swap. Needs intake and cooling manifold mods to convert it to RWD. It'll need everything from a donor vehicle to run it. Be warned, old DSM harnesses will have electrical gremlins in them from age but the tuner forums have tips on diagnosing/repairing them. Not cheap or that straight forward but there is a ton of tuner support for the EVO type engines. And it'll be... fast. I mean FAST once it's tuned. You will need to modify the firewall around the clutch cable adjuster to handle a beefed up clutch assembly. The firewall will flex if you use a big clamping force clutch and eventually the metal will fatigue (or the clutch cable will just blow from load)

You said something about shaft deletes in my last post. Could you elaborate on that? I don't quite understand what you mean. And wow that's a lot of options. Thanks geezer101! Since we're on the subject, would it be possible to put a turbo on my current G63B? If so I was thinking Weber 38DGES, turbo & intercooler, and a new exhaust. I don't have solid numbers but I'd imagine that's around $900-$1,000 for everything? I'm just spit balling lol.

I'm also a fan of the G63B SOHC turbo and 4G63 options if turboing my current engine isn't possible. If I can fit the T350 into Susan, it's and interesting prospect. It would also help my friend fund his Cutlass project so it's kinda a two-fer. I've never done an engine swap before or fabrication work, but am open to try and experiment. I assumed there'd be clearance issues with the T350 since it's basically double the current engine.

But it's overall gonna be VERY expensive. He's selling it for $1500 including an engine hoist, and the trans is ~$900 brand new, but I'd go used. If I go with the G63B SOHC turbo, 4G63, or modding my current engine options, I'd hope it'd be closer to $1,000 as that is my ideal budget of engine/drivetrain modding. If I tried, I could push it to 1,500, but I'll being eating ramen for awhile lol

Mitsubishi engine have balance shafts in them. They are designed to reduce second order harmonic vibrations but also are a source of catastrophic engine failure when the bearings fail or there's another oil pressure problem. One shaft runs off the oil pump drive gear which is timed with the timing belt, the second shaft is driven by a smaller belt off the crank (this second belt is also a source of failure as a lot of the time nobody replaces them at their due service intervals) This is gonna be an epic read but bear with me lol.

Deleting these shafts on the G63B is not that complicated and there are off the shelf OEM parts that solve the problems that can occur while doing this mod. Deleting them has a number of advantages:
#1 takes a weak link out of the engine (solves the potential bearing failure/engine kill problem)
#2 increases oil pressure to number 1 rod and main journals (the oiling system is divided in 2 places and the primary location of engine failure is the forward section of the engine)
#3 makes the secondary balance shaft belt redundant (if it ain't there, it can't fail...) and simplifies timing belt swaps (added bonus)
#4 reduces parasitic loss of power (this one is fiercely debated, especially on this site lol) These shafts are hefty chunks of metal and require torsional force to rotate them (at double the crank speed - so do the maths on that) Removing them improves throttle response (a good thing) and has a long term impact on fuel economy (might not be directly measurable as nobody has ever taken the time to do a comparison pre/post delete)

There is a down side to this as you may experience some harmonics at different rpms. The reciprocating bits of the engine are pretty closely matched in weight from factory but weighing each rod and piston assembly and fettling a few grams of the heavier ones to weight match them won't hurt. To delete the shafts - pull them out after removing the timing/oil pump assembly, remove the bearings and rotate them so the oil galleries no longer match up with the ports in the bearings (if you don't do this, you will lose ALL oil pressure and it's kaboom time) Remove the shaft anchored into the oil pump gear and install a stubby shaft from a Mirage/Lancer (do not use some janky aftermarket delete kit as the Mitsubishi OEM shaft has an oiling groove and a port which will prevent the oil pump housing getting worn out from reduced oil flow) There is a small cap seal that replaces the shaft seal in the front of the oil pump/timing assembly where the secondary shaft passed through for the timing sprocket - it's a press fit (again, use the OEM part as some idiots use a freeze plug and hammer it in, causing it to either leak or crack the oil pump/timing assembly) Delete done! :)

Ok. I think I understand it better now. After some thought I think I'm gonna pass on the T350. It's a fun idea but I don't have the expertise or finances rn to justify getting it. I'm leaning more on just modding my existing G63B and use the money I would've put into replacing the engine to making it better :)

I running plan rn is to do the shaft delete and rebuild the engine, put in the Weber 38DGES, and new exhaust for sure. I'm still interested on putting in a turbo to eek out a bit more power. On a scale of 1-10 how difficult would it do on my current motor?

And do you think it'd be possible to get 200 +/-10 HP out of that engine?

Sure you can get 200 HP. Just do this.

Attachment 25182

The G63B block is TOUGH. It's handle crazy amounts of HP for a stock 4 cylinder engine (easy double over factory). That picture that camoit has so kindly posted up for you is of one of our members' trucks before he sold it. As you can guess, there is a bomb of cash spent on it - it is after all the land speed record holder engine for a Mitsubishi 4 cylinder truck (built by LSRMike here) Get it right, improve engine performance (not just the max HP on a dyno sheet but torque, fuel economy, throttle response etc) and it'll be a totally different truck to drive. You can pull this off on a budget if you do a bunch of the work yourself. A carb and header mod will work their best after the head is ported. This is something you can totally do in a garage at home without air grinders and carbide tips. Getting a shop to do it is very labour intensive and most of the time you won't be happy with the results for what you've paid. Horses cost $$$. And the truth is, they are only numbers. If you really want a horsepower hero truck, visit the DSM/Evo tuner sites to see what goes into building a high power 4G63 turbo engine.

Awesome! Yeah I'm totally down for doing the labor myself! I've been that most of my life lol. I'll stick with the G63B that way I don't have worry so much about engine fitment and such. Ok. Now that that's settled, let's talk about order of operations and parts on a budget.

So right now I'm a little tight on cash, but if I'm smart about it, I can spare $500 right now and another $500 next month to get me started. The only thing I know for sure I'm getting is the Weber 38DGES for my carb. I still need to find a new exhaust and manifold, and a turbo (my frend thinks I should twin turbo it, but we'll see. Depends on cost). If you had to give me a list in sequence of things I should do, what would it be? Having direction helps me understand what and why I'm doing it otherwise I'm pulling parts and that's not smart lol

I wouldn't twin turbo it. There are different turbos around that are compact and make big boost. Keep it simple - it'll be cheaper to set up and more reliable. But N/A modding this engine on a budget you'll be looking at more than $500 for parts. The 38DGES carb and adapter kit, electric fuel pump to run it, headers+heat wrap+full exhaust system and you're already on half a grand-ish (that's for mild steel - stainless will cost more). You'll need a VRS kit for the head removal and install and a new timing belt kit would be advisable. Then there's a cam to make the most of the bolt on upgrades - adjustable cam gears are available for the G63B but you'll have to go looking and the prices are all over the place (check through the listings on ebay to find your bargains) Expect hidden expenses for stuff you may run into while it's apart like replacing the water pump or something worn out etc.

The only 'free' mods are the balance shaft delete and any DIY porting you put into it. You'll need basic tools like a power drill with a flex drive on it, flap sanding drums and a rotary hobby grinder with accessory tips (doesn't have to be a big name kit I've used cheap ass Ozito rotary grinders for years and they handle this kind of small work brilliantly). *advice - do not send the head off to a shop to get tested/milled, then do the port work. If you accidentally buzz a valve seat after it's been cut, you'll have to send it back to get the shop to re-cut it. There is a ton of videos out there on YT showing DIY port work. Read comments on those videos as they'll call the guy out if he's doing something stupid lol. There are posts/threads here on mightyram showing various port work and intake mods which will give you an idea of what you're trying to achieve and advice on how to do it.

Got it. I'll up my budget and plan accordingly. So where should I start? I just finished fixing my daily driver so I can start digging into Susan ^-^

Parts hoarding. Go online and find the stuff you want to use and get the best prices. Only buy a Weber from an authorised supplier/stockist. There are bad knock offs on the market that will cause you grief regardless of what you try to do to remedy running problems. Check this thread -

http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin...carb-Becareful!!!!!!!!!!!!

You will need an electric fuel pump to run the fuel supply to the Weber as the mechanical pump on the engine will over pressurize the carb and cause flooding. Trying to regulate the mechanical pump can cause the pump to fail as well. My recommendation on a budget - Carbole 42S. The same identical pump as the Mr Gasket 42S right down to the part# cast onto the pump body, just less than half the price. I would add an electrical relay and fuse kit to install the pump (another add on that can be done on a budget) The relay kit will ensure you get full voltage to the pump from the battery and the fuse will protect you from any short circuit mishaps. I would even rip out and replace all of the rubber lines with new sleeved fuel hose and add a good quality filter between the tank and the pump to protect the pump from sucking up any garbage and killing it. Headers and a street driveable cam - ask for recommendations here on the site. New threads about headers come up regularly and guys who have chosen to use a cam can hook you up with a supplier. You can get away without using a cam as the stock Mikuni strangles these engines along with the EGR/anti smog crap, but you won't be making the most of it. The Weber carb upgrade will still make improvements in power and economy over the factory carb. Factor in stuff like maintenance/replacement parts and shop around for the best price. I believe later model G63B engines came with bigger oil pump assemblies so if you need to buy a new one, try to get an upgraded part. You will change plans as you go along but keep to the 'bones' of the upgrades so you don't blow cash 2 or 3 times before settling on a plan. Happy hunting ;)

Can you trust ebay listings for Weber Carbs? I found this listing on ebay for ~$400, and the seller has some pretty positive reviews. I wouldn't be able to tell a fake from the real thing, but this is the one that makes sense to me.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/38mm-Weber-...AAAOSwhEtdmZu3

A genuine Weber will have the name cast onto the body or a solenoid housing and the place of manufacture which will be either Spain (new carbs) or Italy (old school carbs) - fakes have had Weber printed on them in ink when they've bothered lol. Another give away of it being fake is the alloy looks really bright - almost blue in colour. The listing states that it is a genuine Weber carb. They'd get themselves in deep sh*t on ebay if they made false claims but that doesn't stop shady vendors.

Isn't the black choke housing also an indicator of a potential fake? Even if not, I'd be very wary due to the "all carburetor sales are final" clause. Check out Redline Weber as part of your vendor search.

^I know about the black choke housing but I wouldn't say it's a 100% indicator. I personally would be a little weary of this vendor as, if you get into a battle with them there isn't a guarantee you'll be refunded even if you are right. Use the links in my post as they are guaranteed genuine Weber stockists.

...or this and save yourself some coin - https://www.ebay.com/itm/For-Dodge-M...0AAOSwT6pV3vrK

This listing shows the Weber Redline performance box and is $40 cheaper (K610 - 38) + the listing image shows the white choke housing.

Ok. So far I got the 38DGES and the Carbole 42S. NExt things on my immediate buy list are new fuel hoses, a better fuel filter and exhaust system. I'm also looking into turbos rn, but I don't know exactly what features/size I'm looking for. I'm assuming a smaller size is preferred bc it has less turbo lag and is more likely to fit under the hood without mods?

Also I'm interested in doing a rear disc conversion on my truck. I looked on the forum and watched videos to get an idea. From what I got, if it's just for street (which this car is), then you don't need it. But in my head I'm like 'I'm putting in more power, so I should put in better brakes so it's to stop.' I know that the fronts are the ones doing most of the work and the rears are to ensure I don't go sideways, but you think it's worth the time and money?

Before I forget, what's the size fuel hose I should get? I'm assuming 5/16, the size of the inlet of the 42S, but searches pull up everything from 3/16 -1/2

If you've spent the $$$ on a carb, a turbo isn't going to work in this configuration. I mean, you 'can' do a blow through but it is really limited to what kind of boost you can run and it is a sketchy way to turbo an engine. Just don't - this is an opinion only and there are 'right' ways to turbo an engine. Off the top of my head it's 5/16" fuel hose for the main fuel feed. Return lines are 1/4". You can block off the return line but do not block off vapour/breather lines. It can cause vapour lock in the fuel system which will cause the engine to starve out of fuel. Check the Weber install threads to guide you through the upgrade. There is a list of things you should do while mounting the Weber (mostly manifold mods for the coolant lines/barbs as the coolant feed will be redundant and can cause hidden issues if not sealed off properly)

Really? Dang... I was under the impression that it would work with a draw through turbo :/ I mentioned it early on in our conversations so I assumed that it would work with my carb. Oh well. I might be able to return the carb? I'm still interested in throwing in a turbo, but if I can get up to say... 158-180HP (the range of power for a honda civic), then I'd be content with that. It would keep the build simpler and increase my remaining budget by a significant margin. So... I guess the next parts to get would be headers and exhaust?The only ones I found Pacesetters headers ranging from $130-240, which sounds reasonable. And for exhaust system I was thinking a DIY universal kit bc the whole exhaust has basically rotted away, so I'd have to swap it all anyway

also, if I'm able to return the carb, what would you recommend if I still wanna turbo my 463B?

A blow through turbo will support 6-8 lbs of boost max. No intercooling and if it backfires, it'll cook anything between the turbo and the intake (the CARB). Carb throttle shafts aren't designed for boost but using a new carb will act as a safeguard for potential air leaks (I have no idea how the fuel bowl vent will like having boost thrown at it or even if will work...) You need to factor in oil and cooling feeds to the turbo, an oil return from the turbo to the sump, an indexed distributor for boost... If you are serious about going turbo, use the factory parts to do it - Mitsubishi made G62B/G63B SOHC turbo engines and those heads and manifolds will bolt straight up to a RWD block without mods.. They had issues, primarily with running lean and cracking turbo manifolds but it's a no nonsense install (you'll need everything that ran the engine as a transplant). Before you write off the idea of using the 38DGES, ask yourself what is it you want to achieve on a budget and/or are you better off looking for a donor vehicle and doing an engine swap? Guys here can testify if the big carb and engine mods are worth it, but once you get rid of the factory carb you'll see how much potential has been held back from the G63B. If you start with the 38DGES, you'll skip the 32/36 Weber carb and maximise potential power (don't get me wrong, the 32/36 runs rings around the Mikuni, but the 38 is a more modern design and those bigger throats are a worth while jump in air flow for chasing performance)

Understood. I'll hold off on turboing Susan and will compromise to the 38DGES, new headers and exhaust, rebuilding the engine, and shaft delete.

I have only found these Pacesetters for headers. One painted for $155, and one metallic ceramic coating for $260. Both are made of mild steel. THe only other option I found was someone on the forums who can do stainless, but it's gonna be about $900. I understand that stainless is better, but I don't know if it's worth the $700 premium. Here are the links to all 3. I'd like y'alls opinion, but right now I'm leaning to the ceramic coating one for $260.

Mild Steel, Black Paint: https://www.jegs.com/i/Pace-Setter/7...2L+%2F+122+%29
Mild Steel, Metallic Ceramic Coating: https://www.jegs.com/i/Pace-Setter/7...2L+%2F+122+%29
Custom Stainless Steel: http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin...g63b-4g64-g54b

I remember Pennyman saying these were NLA from DG Headers. They are freaking amazing. Now there is an alternative but I can't guarantee they will fit right - and that's if you can find a set. Headers from a FWD G63B (Eagle, Colt, Expo, Galant, Cordia, Hyundai Sonata etc) may be adaptable but I've had no luck finding a set. Headers on ebay are dirt cheap and would be worth modifying. No guarantee on fit/quality though...

I found a place called GPHeaders that is willing to make and ship them for $700. I think I'm gonna go for it. I feel like for the long term stainless is the way to go. Also I received the 38DGES I bought through that ebay link you posted. turns out they were real! Made in spain and it's beautiful <3 My daily is popping error codes again so I won't be installing it in the pickup yet, but I'll continue to purchase the parts I need and plan my engine teardown. Luckily I still have the original Haynes maintenance book made in 1989,and am gonna use that as my guide for the teardown. I'll need to find someone with an engine hoist I can use to make it easier to work on the engine.

Oh yeah. So I'm looking into buying a new grille for SUsan as well. I'd prefer it to be chrome, but the only ones I can find in chrome are the ones for the 93-96 mighty max. Will it fit as is or would I have to do some work? If anyone knows where I can find a chrome one for the 89, I'd greatly appreciate it. I used to be able to find them but that was years ago. I'm having a hard time finding parts for this truck :/ It's doable but I have to hunt hard

the 93-96 should fit. i have one on my 1990. direct bolt on.

Nice. I also wanna do a rear brake conversion to discs. My plan is to use rotors and calipers off of a '94 montero. In my head I think it should fit. Thoughts?

I plan on doing the same thing to the front brakes as well, but needed a proof of concept

You won't get an upgrade over the front assemblies but you can do a twin piston swap from a Montero. The rear you would be better off doing a whole axle swap. There might be an increase in rear track (I know there is in a Gen 1 truck axle to disc swap...) but then you're not messing around with anything other than a hand brake cable and some brake hoses.

if u grow bored with the naturally aspirated 2.0
I'd start looking for a running starion 2.6 donor and a wideblock truck 5spd
add a few bolt-on mods, then go V8 hunting


oe rear end strong enough
DSM rear disc not hard. Cut off caliper tabs so u can weld/make up remainder of bracket
needs redrill if staying 6 log tho. Check if 6 bolt circle/flange clears 1st

Wait, what does DSM mean?

DSM is the US division of Mitsubishi Motors (Diamond Star Motors) that were developed especially for the US market. They were sold under the model names Eclipse, Laser, Talon etc. Really popular tuner platforms that ran parallel to Evolution Lancers.

I'm gonna be sending out my old headers so that they have a basis for fabricating the stainless steel ones and it's gonna be about a month before I get them back. Do I need to worry about covering the manifold ports to prevent corrosion/stuff from getting in? And if so does it matter what I use to cover it