Printable View
This isn't a question but more of a rant.
Saturday night drriving and herd a few pops. All of a sudden clutch pedal went limp. Rev matched gears to get home helping what clutch release I had left. Ordered a new clutch cable from autozone and shipped priority next day. Cable comes in Tuesday. Pulled old cable and found it broken toward the top below the adjustment. Put everything back together on Wednesday(today) and same problem with little no clutch release.
Pulling trans tomorrow.
adjusted the cable properly? Firewall flexing? if you have air tools use them, The first time I removed the Trans crossmember my arm went limp, 12 friggin bolts, and they aren't short. and that bolt on the drivers side top of the bellhousing, good luck. I went to pulling the engine and trans as a package and splitting it on the floor, a lot easier.
Attachment 18148
Got air tools but I'll be using my electric impact gun. Compressor is too far away. Firewall does flex a little but with cable adjustment at max I can pull the cable and wiggle it. Start truck up and won't go in any gear so something clutch related. Throw is very long until the pivot arm contacts the pressure plate without the cable attached.
collapsed pressure plate or stuck throwout bearing
I'd lean towards a pressure plate fault (rivets torn out, sheared mounting bolts or bent/damaged pressure plate fingers) I would think if the throw out bearing was jammed there would either be no travel in the pedal or the clutch would be constantly slipping...
(meh could be wrong, been wrong before:slap:)
Trans only held in by the top 2 bolts and cross member. Forgot a friend borrowed my trans tunnel extension. Everything else off.
Anyone have any luck with swapping out the bolts on the shifter base to studs? Used thread lock on the bolts and they still come loose over time. Wanna swap to studs and thread lock and split washer the top already.
thought about it, but haven't done it yet. But then, I have a stedebani shifter with a spacer on Geronimo, so the bolts are longer. Had them work loose on me in traffic on an interstate, and had to tighten them back in using my leatherman - it was the only tools I had with me at the time.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66...FB1A9DD548.jpg
Fingers do look a little flat.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66...DB76F9C708.jpg
Appears I still have clutch life left but the amount of oil in the bell housing idk if I'd trust reusing it.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66...D496A0FE38.jpg
Tob at full rest position all the way in the back. Oilly but seems fine.
Maybe clutch kit only for replacement.
Forgot about a build thread I made on here back in 2011. Lol. Compared pics and everything actually looks normal. Aside from the oil. Now I'm kinda stumped.
The pressure plate fingers look more protruded in the last pic in comparison to the pic you took when you inspected it. I would be taking it off and looking at the inside of it. The pressure plate/TOB or clutch arm are the only components that affect clutch engagement at the transmission end.
I have had the through shaft brake arms and bend them. So be sure to take a close look at it.
Gonna be another expensive clutch job. Clutches only sold as kits at parts stores. Dsm kit comes in tomorrow. Starion kit gotta special order again. Lol
check the roll pins that keep the throw out bearing release fork "located" on the shaft.
Both clutch kits came in on Friday and actually had time today to work on it. Found out I have the wrong clutch kit for the starion. Special ordered for an 88 starion turbo but the disc size measured 9-7/16 inches and my old starion disc measured at 8-7/8 inches. New disc does not fit the flywheel. Ordered a new disc from rockauto and used the discount code. Almost $2 difference. Lol. Starion disc measured at 8-7/8 inches is for pre 5/87 build date. Another week waiting on parts.
2 bucks will get you a half tube of lube. LOL..
Disc no fit the flywheel and hub for the disc no fit the pressure plate. Lube not gonna work, maybe grinding lol.
the flywheel can be drilled to use the bigger clutch - a machine shop can do it for you if you don't feel confident, but the flywheel should be resurfaced to ensure smooth engagement. the bigger clutch holds more power, so it should be considered.
Flywheel is a stepped flywheel. Sorry. Got the 1987 starion clutch replacement in today and put it in. fingers look as flat as the old setup.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66...A5C2AC3C_1.jpg
Never seen a stepped flywheel for a 2.6, but I don't doubt they exist. At least you have the right parts not.
Stepped flywheel is from the 6 bolt dsm engine. The 87 starion clutch disc measuring at 8-7/8 inches fits nicely inside the dsm flywheel. The oem turbo eclipse pressure plate has a pretty good clamping force so went with this clutch system when I first went turbo. Dsm pressure plate and flywheel with starion disc to match the input shaft. I'll have some time tomorrow and bring my roll pin punches home from work.
New clutch disc and pressure plate and still appears I'm at step one: diagnosing. Maybe I should order a new cable clutch arm just in case.
forgot you have a 4g63t motor - those motors have the stepped flywheel - it all makes sense now...
Ordered this yesterday. Did not get around to look at it yet but it will garrantee new clutch components. It is pretty much what's left other then clutch pedal itself. If this part doesn't fix my clutch issue I will shim the cable at the bracket on the trans. Truck has to make the boat next month.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/381856291305?_mwBanner=1
Pulled the release lever off. One of the holes appears slightly larger then the other but not by much. Doesn't really appear to be bent. I'll just replace it when the new parts comes in.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66...8320925152.jpg
I hope those are black gloves!!! lol :)
Yep. Black lightning. Had a pocket full of em.
So got the new parts in the mail. Apparently the 2.4 differs from the 2.0 trans as its wider. There's a bit of the polished part of the shaft that goes into the trans exposed. Assembled it doesn't appear to have any negative effects but with everything assembled I have a little bit more travel with the lever.
Got the trans back on the truck and everything is still the same. Pedal to the floor with lots of slack in the cable. I did notice it slightly bang at the cable to trans bracket but not by much. Removed the lever from the clutch pedal and found no wear marks or cracks in the welds in the brake/clutch pedal assembly. Ended up shimming the cable after maxing out the adjustment.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66...1F2CE2F2E9.jpg
Any thoughts? In the future I will be going with a hydraulic clutch system, aiming for a t56 6 speed.
Only other thought is your firewall might be flexing a whole lot where the cable goes through if you never reinforced it.
I figured something bent or broke, or went missing cause of all the slack. Ima button it up today. Only gotta put in fluid, reinstall shifter and driveshaft. Not much time after work.
Finished everything today and shimmed the crap out of the cable. Now the adjustment nut is at the bottom of the threads. I guess the years of having a heavy clutch took its toll on everything. Bracket for the cable and firewall.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66...BE5B9FA019.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66...2F56F4201A.jpg
Honestly I quite possibly only needed the cable and the shim I used and not taking the trans off and replacing clutch disc, pressure plate, clutch release fork and lever with new roll pins. Atleast I know it's all new.
Now you have shimmed the cable you'll be able to wring every last nanometer out of the clutch before you need to replace it :thumbup:
Yep. Guess I'll hang onto the old stuff as a just incase. New disc or pressure plate issues. Difference in old vs new has to be measured cause was not a big noticeable difference. And new setup the pedal is softer so maybe the old setup might hold more power.
I was going to ask if you had noticed any difference with the feel of the pedal now the cable has been replaced. Seems to be that most of the time a heavy pedal is a result of a tired clutch cable binding against it's sheath. I installed a sports clutch in a car a few years back and the pedal gave my left leg a good workout until the cable blew. After the cable was replaced I could jab the clutch pedal like it was on a rubber band.
It rubs the intake manifold more then I'd like. Will bend the end a bit for clearance when I have time again. Manifold is kinda large but it does the job. Lol.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66...67D98889BE.jpg
I ain't in this for the looks and been busy to loom the harness. Have been changes since last time I showed a pic of the bay here.
I keep forgetting that you guys are all left hooks. My truck being RHD allows the clutch cable to loop straight back down the side of the block to the clutch arm. Did you block finish your rocker cover? The overall finish is very consistent, it would not have been easy to get it looking like that.
Meh, don't worry about how it looks too much - being built not bought means it's a work in progress :thumbup:
Frontline fab valve cover. With shipping, gasket set, the baffled -10an fittings, costed me about 1k. Woulda costed more if I wanted a different color. Oem valve cover cracked bought a new one and powder coated it white. Then it cracked, didn't want to buy another used cover and coat it again to have it crack again.
http://frontlinefabrication.com/prod...3-valve-cover/
Forgot to update. Cable broke again today. Got another one coming in from rockauto and will be reverting back to the modified oem intake manifold for now. The FRH manifold coming off and put on the shelves for now. Might make the next cable last longer then a 1 night of errands and half a day. FRH will go back on when do the new trans.
...$1K for a rocker cover :eek: I admit, it is a beautifully milled product. And now the cable has blown - again. You are not having any matter of luck.
Yep. Swapping back the manifold as the oem cable lasted years. $200 a pop per valve cover and broke 2 already. Third would be $600, it would add up to 1k sooner or later and still have a chance of cracking. Used covers vary in price, and each one would be a gamble if it cracks. Photobucket shows origonal pics of my swap was taken in 2010 but not exactly sure. First swap was when mightyd50.com was still around. My third valve cover since then on the truck. My 1995 talon cracked at the plug cover but didn't leak. Others still on their first one. My luck I'd crack another one. Lol.
Buttoned up the truck today. Apparently the local autozone had a clutch cable in stock today for a warranty exchange. Paid $37 in shipping from autozone online for the first cable. $33 in shipping for the second cable from rockauto when the new cable broke, and autozone had one on the island. That's what happens when I only call napa and they said I had to bring one in from the mainland.
Used the same shims and with the modified oem intake manifold I still had slack in the cable. Adjusted it so the clutch grabs in the middle. Will daily drive it soon to make sure everything is good. New clutch cable comes in tomorrow in the mail so I'll have a spare.
I know I could possibly be looking for a smack in the ear for suggesting this, but would the rocker cover from the 1G Hyundai variant work as well? I would bet they'd be a lot cheaper than an Evo cover and probably easier to source as well.
Yes if it had the Mitsubishi engine. I see the Hyundai valve covers all over dsmtuners. Shaved or unshaved. The 1g valve covers I had said 16 valve dohc 2000 on them, and seen a few that says Mitsubishi dohc 16 valve but don't know where these originated. Do know the Hyundai covers says Hyundai dohc 16 valve.
Same thing happened to me. I picked up a cable from autozone and i had the same issue. When i compared it to the oem cable it didn't match. So i got one from O'Reilly and it matched the autozone cable exactly , but not the oem. Finally went to the dealer and picked up a cable. I was shocked at how smooth my tranny shifts now. For a long time i thought my tranny was going out. Turns out it was just the cable.
Yeah. Autozone cable is a little long. Had to shim it at the bracket on the transmission, got more adjustment out of the cable. They couldn't help me find a rubber bushing for the top of the cable into the firewall. Autozone hard the pioneer brand and rock auto had 3 choices. One of which was the pioneer.
50 miles on the cable so far didn't snap yet but the catching point dropped a little from where I adjusted it. Lol. Got a spare cable in the truck now and only tools required to swap out is a floor jack. Lol.
Hi guys, newbie here,
My cable went limp also, same problem as you describe. First the clutch got hard to push. Then started grinding into gear. Then I adjusted the cable and got some more clutching-range and it stopped grinding but then it was really hard to push and eventually the cable broke from too much stress.
I pulled it for inspection and found no defects except when I compared the pressure plate to a new one the original one looked more collapsed and had metal heating discoloration where the TOB connects. I have a pictures:
Attachment 18783Attachment 18784
The first pix shows the bad, somewhat collapsed pressure plate as compared to a new and more flexed up pressure plate.
There's more. I installed a new flywheel, pilot bearing, clutch kit and TOB and I ended up with the very same problem !!!
The clutch would not fully dis-engage when I pushed the pedal all the way to the floor. I adjusted the cable all that I could and
it came close but would not range fully as when I depressed the pedal the clutch still remained partly engaged so the trans would grind into gear. And when I let up on the clutch the cable was so tight that it would not relax fully and engage the clutch fully. I needed more range on the fork lever.
I tried adjusting the clutch pedal height adjustment and this actually helped the cable to range better but still not enough.
After a whole lot of troubleshooting I finally figured out a perfect way to gauge exactly how the system should operate properly.
Here's how.
Look at the clutch control shaft position on the side to the transmission. See pix:
Attachment 18785Attachment 18786
(for a diagram, see:
http://vintage.mitchell1.com/PClubDa.../V2I817009.pdf )
So anyhow look at the clutch control shaft lever pictured. This is how much cable pull range that it takes to operate a 2nd gen clutch. the first pix shows a relaxed pedal with the clutch engaged and the second pix shows a depressed pedal with the clutch disengaged. Notice how the clutch control lever in the second picture needs to be pulled so far that it actually contacts the side of the bell housing ?
How to you get this much cable operation with inept aftermarket parts along with worn out specs ? Maybe keep buying different clutches and cables and trying them for fit ? Maybe shims where the cables mount ?
I had a different idea. I figured that since a clutch pedal height adjustment really helped my cable range, then maybe 'more' pedal travel might give me all of the clutch cable adjustment necessary in order to allow the clutch to fully engage and disengage.
So, I elongated the lever that connects the clutch cable to the pedal see pix:
A centreforce pressure plate - that should bite down hard on the clutch disc. You'll probably find the old clutch cable inner sleeve was worn down badly and was the reason why the clutch was so heavy.
When I removed the cable I tested it and it moved freely and had no signs of wear, unless maybe the inner sleeve was not visible or it needed to be stressed in order to move "heavy". I don't know.
I replaced the cable, clutch, fly, pilot and TOB and still had the same problem ! Heavy clutch and grinding into gear because not enough pedal travel in order to fully release the clutch.
I tried adjusting the cable all the way I could get it and still needed more adjustment. Does this need shimmed ?
dj
Attachment 18810Attachment 18811Here are pictures of the clutch control shaft on the transmission bell housing. I can explain what you are seeing. the first picture shows the clutch cable relaxed with the clutch fully engaged. the two painted vertical lines represent how much the cable travels when the clutch pedal is depressed to the floor. About an inch.
I need more pedal travel. I need to clutch control shaft to be pulled so far that it contacts the side of the bell housing like pictured in the second image.
dj
Can you add a spacer or washer/shims where the clutch cable passes through the mounting bracket from the engine side? I had a similar issue with a friends Mazda 808 sedan. Clutch cable was good but nowhere near enough adjustment. I was able the re-mount the cable end bracket by 30mm and now he has a huge scope for adjustment. BTW your clutch arm looks weird lol. Every Mitsu 4 or 5 clutch arm I've seen had a single straight arm without the counter weight thingy hanging off it...
Okay, I didn't try the "spacer-shim" adjustment just yet.
What I did try is adjusting the clutch pedal height for about 10mm of more range and this helped because it allowed for both more clutch release pull range as well as letting the cable release to return fully back to full clutch engagement.
So when I released the clutch pedal the cable adjustment wasn't so tight that it was still pulling the clutch arm a little forward.
So, this allowed for a little bit of more adjustment ----BUT--- still I am not home. The system still does not work.
O-kay so now my clutch pedal height is sitting higher than the brake pedal. But even now I figured that if I could add some more pedal travel then this would range the clutch arm further.
So, I tried adding an inch to the "arm" lever up at the pedal assembly. I'm thing that a longer arm would give more distance to the range that the pedal action is throwing the cable.
I welded this piece for strength and this is what it looks like.
Attachment 18813
Works ! I can now dial in the whole assembly. The clutch cable adjusts normally and the pedal height can be leveled with the brake pedal. the clutch arm ranges fully. The truck is now drivable.
BUT (!) Clutch activation doesn't feel even. It seems to do more of a "launch" kind of grab down close to the floor rather than a more even kind of grab at maybe pedal more half way up from the floor.
I do not think that this is a fix and I am not presenting this as a a fix on this forum (disclaimer) but this mod is getting me down the road and gives me a chance to troubleshoot further.
So, now the clutch works, the trans. goes into each gear like butter, no-grind!, the cable nut is adjusted to the middle of its range, the clutch engages fully and now !st gear will once again hold this truck like a parking brake but.....
I mean "BUT!" ... this mod allowed me to troubleshoot further and this is what I found out; ---the firewall is flexing like crazy.
Maybe this, maybe a full 1/2" of flexing is my problem ?
I am thinking that if I put the whole system back to stock and then fab and weld a piece of steel to rigid the firewall where the cable feeds thru in order to get rid of the flexing, this may be a real fix.
? dj
That can be your problem - firewall flex. But after you reinforce the firewall on both sides, check the pedal again to be sure the flex is not caused by an alignment issue of some sort. Where about in the 'burgh are you located?
Pittsburgh South Hills, few miles up from the Liberty Tubes
I been reading through the archives about firewall flexing and clutch lever cracking.
Apparently, the harder the clutch, or sitffer the pressure plate then the more stress your putting on the stock (less heavy-duty) clutch system like the cabling and firewall and Transmission.
I was using a LUK clutch when I got problems. My experience is that this is stage 1 in performance quality. With this recent repair I ordered the Centerforce 1 because I had great experience with these in the past. But as so happened Centerforce sent me a LUK brand clutch with their weights attached.
I would definitely say that this application should get the easiest pressure plate mot stock application clutch available in order to avoid any problems.
Does anybody know what that is ?
Or even does OEM Mitsu. still list a clutch for these 80's vehicles ?
DJ
Wow - that is strange that they use a LUK clutch kit now, as they make Hays and other brand clutches. I have a Centerforce dual friction setup in Geronimo for over 25 years and have had no problems. The Centerforce I have has no more resistance on the pedal than a stock clutch. BTW, I am over near McKeesport, so I am not too far from you.
Whats' your clutch cable like? If it's binding it will load the hell out of the pedal and that would generate more than enough force on the firewall.
Pennyman, you need to update that date line to...been over 30 years. You owned Geronimo going on 37 years now. :P
Good point - may have to do that in the future...