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So i just inhereted my grandpas ram 50 and ive been entertaining the thought of tossing a dohc head on it to try and get a little hp and make it more efficent for a better dd so im justwondering if anybody has done it or if its even possible im new to the mitsu world always been a mopar man and ive got a couple neons so the 4cyl is no stranger so if anybody knows anything about head swaps between the 8v and 16v sohc to dohc id be greatful
should keep you busy for a while...
http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin...ap-information
http://www.projectzerog.com/
http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72032
awesome thanks
new question has anybody had hard starting issues? it seems the iac position sensor is junk as unplugging it made it start better but when the engine is cold it takes forever for it to start as in 5 minutes and finally it will sputter to life and die repeatedly until it starts to get warm then it will try and idle almost like the choke is broken if it were carb'd but when warm it runs awesome and starts right back up
Water temp sensor
are there two? one for the ecu and one for the dash? i was thinking it could be something along that line but wasn't sure and haven't looked too hard at the truck. I have the full FSM for the truck what isn't in japanese that is lol. I'm going to try giving it fuel to see if it helps start and oil in the cylinders to see if it helps with compression but im leaning towards just a lean issue when it's cold. Besides that i was wondering if anybody knows off the top of their head if it is a 6 or 7 bolt because that seems to be the biggest difference between any 4g6x motor and head pattern, but out of all of the info i'm digging through i cannot find what my 4g64 is
Yes there are two sensors as you speculate. the switch between 6 bot to 7 bolt was in the 92 model year, so if you haven't had a swap, you're a 6 bolt. you can also taker your VIN to a dealer parts counter and they will tell you your build date.
The manuals section on this site has the Mitsu books and the Haynes manual, both good references.
It should be a 6 bolt as Mike has stated, should not matter for a head swap though, as your going to need all the new head sensors and wires to make it work anyway. The head itself will differ from a 1G to a 2G (DOHC DSM), but not from the crank difference.
awesome thanks guys ill let you know how it goes getting it running right but the swap is not going to be for a while likely one to two years away
well i finally got to mess with the truck and put in a new sensor and found out there is a third sensor for coolant besides the one on top (2 wire) one on the side right next to that one(1 wire) and forward of that one is another 2 wire with a white plug that im not sure what it goes to and i looked at the truck at the jy and theres only 2 sensors the third one on my truck is just plugged on the truck in the jy so any insight on this before i dive into my fsm would be awesome
Got the truck to start but its not rich enough when i start it i have to spray starting fluid in the intake to get it to start until it warms up so any ideas before i tear into it? anybody else have that problem?
Heres a couple pics i thought id throw up to show yall what ive got
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...psc21cec02.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...psf6c4c793.jpg
Nice Macro cab, don't let that truck go to waste the ext cabs are rare. Sory I can't be of help I haven't owned a 2.4. Maybe I can go check out my buddies 2.4 after wrk and let you know
So since I have now taken posession of the truck I've had time to play with it a bit. The truck does not start cold unless I spray starting fluid in the intake, and will not idle once started until it warms up a little. At this point the idle air control is suspect since it does not have a high idle when it's cold or when i turn on the a/c and then the IAC would not function like a choke to allow it to start cold.
Here is the sensor I was talking about earlier
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps0f9a4cf7.jpg
the sensor with the black on top in the center is the one i replaced and the one lower down to the right with the white plug is the one in question
brad this is a 1990 and is a mfpi engine not carb'd no vehicle in america newer than 1987 has a carb and most ended in 1986 although you can find 1987 vehicles with a carb anything newer was swapped and I'm keeping my mpfi its more driveable efficent and reliable than a carb. I'm saying that from experience as a carb owner in my other 3 dodge trucks and as an auto student through all of high school i just wish i had a 1996 with obd2
I cant see any of the pics at work ill have to check them at home. See what your talking about. This is not a swapped DOHC though, no yet right? Its still the stock 4G64 sohc?
The last vehicle that was carbureted in the usa that was sold new was the 1994 isuzu pickup truck I remember seeing that in motor trend years ago
Gm last vehicle was 1990, ford and chrysler(jeep) in 1991.
No the truck is bone stock the dohc is just an idea at this point
So ive got another issue the truck has had and just came back. At cruise be it 25mph or 55mph the truck will buck like im repeatedly tapping on the throttle but im holding steady and i dont have cruise and ac is off going in a straight line, so any ideas? Im gonna delete egr and other emissions bs here soon maybe some of it sooner like egr and evap but cat will wait until later so if one of those(mainly egr) is the cause, ill get on that asap
Clean your injectors.
Have you done a compression test? Also have a leak down test done.
That truck looks like mine.....luv it. Mine currently has the engine out on a stand.
I know just enough to be very dangerous, so I'll limit my response. Kewl interior.
check the tps
Almost every FI vehicle that sits for an extended period without running will have clogged or partially clogged injectors. What does it have for top end speed? When I first got my 91 running, it couldn't do 70 and also bucked at any speed over about 30. Four of the six injectors had less than 50% capacity, had them cleaned and it runs as smooth as can be.
It has top end just fine but it bucks at 2400rpms exactly when cruising and also realized its rollin coal like a diesel when i get heavy in the throttle and gets im guessing 10mpg right now
i come from a line of mechanics and ive been working on them for my entire life been to school a bit for them so im fairly proficient just tryin to get some ideas and hopefully someones had a similar issue before to make it easier but im still trying to run some tests and this weekend ill be testing the block to see if the head is cracked and doing compression and leakdown testing to make sure everything is good before i go trying to fix everything because getting the surge fixed wolnt do me any good if the head is garbage
Did a block test came out good the head isnt cracked just the exhaust lol also did a compression test got 165-170-155-170 so one isnt quite as good but satisfactory numbers all around so now to figure out the issues
how do the plugs look?
Plugs were fine a little black from running rich but ok other than that ive checked the codes finally and got only the iac motor position sensor code now so im gonna try to find a new one once i get some money and hopefully it will start cold then
Back to the original topic ive talked to some local guys searched a bunch more on the web and looks like a dohc head on my block will yeild between 11-12:1 compression does anyone have any verification of this? I havent found head cc measurements yet to do the math on
that's a cool truck! My '90 was that same Fiji Blue color - but not a Macro. :thumbup:
has anybody tried the 16 valve sohc head from the 4g64 3rd gen eclipse or dodge stratus? thinking im gonna try that swap if i can find a cheap head
nevermind just compared head gaskets not gonna happen theres multiple differences mainly added oil drain passages so its not gonna happen
Your hard starting and bucking problems could be a distributor cap problem also, how does it look?
Cap looks OK but im gonna get a new one soon the thing that makes me think its not that is its not always hard only dead cold
The motor position code has to do with the distributor as I was told by LSR Mike.
According to the fsm its the iac motor position sensor and it doesnt have high idle when cold and doesnt start when cold so im gonna go with that troble is getting a known good one as the only one in the jy is still throwing the code and new from napa is $250
well this cold snap in all of america except for florida ive barely driven the truck but the dusting of snow i got one night it was good and sideways once i got her warm so a lot of thinking with this time without a job has gotten me 3 options for the truck do i swap in a 318 5 speed combo with highway gears or a 4bt 6 speed or dohc swap and tall tires or dohc swap now and 318 later? options that i cannot make a decision on because im sure with a taller gear in the axle, little bit taller tires and dohc i could see somewhere in the mid 30s for mpg or a 4bt and easily get into the 40s or just say the hell with it put in a v8 and make it badass and get like 22mpg freeway(same as what i get now) what are yalls opinions?
Done right a 318 would get better mileage then that, My 302 with an old worn out carb is getting 16-18 mpg in the city and 24-26mpg on the highway with 3.45 gears in back. With a 6 speed you could probably hit in the Mid 30 mpg with a 318. Before the carb went south I was getting around 26-28 mpg in the city and 44-46 mpg on the highway in Overdrive.
you need to throw some sandbags back there to give it some weight, lol. Even with the 4 cylinder an empty bed will make the truck loosy goosy. V8 has some weight,but most will be in front. Rear studs also help if it gets to slickQuote:
Originally Posted by Redneckmoparman
the sideways was on pupose its actually quite easy to drive in bad conditions i just love going sideways thats why i emptied the bed lol and if i go 318 its gonna be a magnum 5 speed setup from a dakota on factory ecu and really tall gears in the rear end somewhere between 2.75 and 3.23 and yes i know the stock axle will not allow that im either gonna use a yota axle or 5 lug swap with an 8.8 disk axle but who knows at this point we will see what i want to do after a school since im enlisting in the navy
Get a rear end out of a montero 2nd gen - its a 9" unit based on the ford 9" design, only heavier built, and disk brakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyman1
The Montero unit is Heavier Built than the Ford 9" ???
Or am I reading that wrong ?
Yeah more info!!! Id like to keep the 6 lug just cause thats what it is lol kinda fun to have multiple lugs with all the different vehicles my 78 power wagon is 5x4.5 my d200 is 8 lug but will become 5 x 5.5 and then my 250 is 8 lug the neons are 5x100 and then the 6x5.5 d50!
And i have 5 acres so spare tires/wheels have plenty of room
it has to be from a 2nd gen montero, not the sport, or the 1 ton trucks. the only downside is the fact that they come with 4.63 gears, and higher gears (lower numerically) are hard to find - I have read that ford ring and pinions fit, but I have never tried that so I can't confirm. They do have 31 spline axles, so that could be a good clue.
My 1990MM was getting 10 mpg . I change out the fuel injectors. And fuel pressure regulators . Still ran the same. Turned out I had a bad ecu.
my 88 ram 50 with a 2bbl 17,XXX miles on it I had a very similar problem it had a loss of power, would not go over 55mph, would barely run on its own, fuel got in the oil, bad gas mileage, and it smoked really bad out the exhaust. I thought it was a timing belt was off by a tooth or two, but when I checked it was fine. I did a compression test on it and it passed perfectly (I didn't think it was the rings with it only having 17k on it) so I took it to my automotive class and I did an ignition scope on it to find out spark plug wire 2 and 3 were switched. after that I cleaned the plugs and changed the gas filled oil and boom he runs great now... I bought it for 700 thinking it needed an engine to figure out it was 2 and 3 spark plug wires were switched
great catch - so now you have a great running truck on the cheap
mine runs pretty decent but is efi and just doesnt start well when cold and gets crappy mpgs
Goddamn pos mitsubishi this thing is getting a 360 as soon as i can get a tranny, clutch, flywheel, and rebuild kit anybody happen to have a 4 or 5 speed trans? An no im not keeping the 4cyl trans thats pointless but for now i need to get it to run so who knows whats wrong? The only code is for the motor position sensor which ive had that code forever but it wolnt run randomly if anybody saw my posts on fb it starts and dies the timing belt isbgood and on time the different sensors if i unplug any one does not affect it so im at a loss im about to unbolt the downpipe and see if the cat is clogged cause im at that much of a loss i have checked the fuel pump it works and im getting fuel to the rail so its not a clogged filter anybody have ideas?
so i finally fixed my exhaust leak of what i though was one broken stud on cyl 1 was actually 2 i took off the mani cause i couldnt get the O2 sensor out to see if the exhaust was plugged so i just pulled the mani pulled the broken studs removed the O2 sensor so i can deal with that easier in the future and put it back on still doesnt run hit the books to figure it out maybe the main relay so i test it and works perfect so yet again im stuck i have no idea besides maybe the ecu is garbage so does anybody have a 2.4 ecu that is known good they could send me? preferrably a cali ecu so i dont have any issues or any ideas you guys have?
I wonder if there's a design flaw in those engines, I had the same problem with a broken stud on #1.
After you left the chat box a couple of us strongly thought it was the coolant temperature sensor (not for the temp gauge).Quote:
anybody have ideas?
Mine hated cold weather starts, and while I've admitted to having added stupidly thick oil, it didn't like cold starts before that. Now that I have the engine stripped down, I'm replacing all those bitchy little sensors as I put it back together.
Having spent a week replacing sensors on my '95 Sable, I learned a lot about the complexity all those sensors cause. It had been my hope that the D-50 was simpler...and in many ways, it is...but apparently we're not getting away from sensor problems entirely. It'd be just our frikkin' luck that a $2 sensor would baffle us to the point of giving up.
If I knew NOW what I didn't know then, about the Sable's sensors, and that many of them could have simply just been cleaned (rather than replaced) I'd be a couple hundred bucks richer...maybe.
That having been said: it's worth a try to replace the coolant temperature sensor, if you haven't already. It's right up there in the thermostat: mine's two-pronged (the gauge sending unit is single-prong).
If nothing else, RNMM, you certainly have my full sympathy.
Already replaced that and after more testing my injectors are not firing looking at the distributor at this point before i condemn the ecu but i cant figure out how to test it and the fsm doesnt give a testing procedure
If i cant fix it before i join the navy then its getting the 360 or a chrysler 2.4
well i got a new crank sensor for in the dist and still no injectors on start or crank so the ecu i am condemning and need a new one if i can find a cheap used one for around $50 any more than that and its sitting until i gets swapped so what are your opinions? im either doing a chrysler 2.4 or a 360v8 either way this is going to become more dodge than mitsu just cant commit to either one i know i can get a wrangler 2.4 which will have the same intake that wraps over the top of the drivers side to an intake at the stock location and i can put an srt bottom end inside and run a decent turbo and still get good mpg and same power as the v8 or just be badass and make a show truck with a v8 so if i could start a poll i would but i cant find an option for one on here so what do you guys think? and no i cant be talked into keeping the sirius motor it is coming out sooner or later and will be up for sale including the trans and exhaust
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps16cecccc.jpg
i like the idea of this because i could make it appear factory and it would be more driveable and i could still use it as my daily driver with the right gearing
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...psyfx0abtz.jpg
can you see where the problem is?
its this http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...psnceria8a.jpg
so the truck has had a slight overheating problem where it will go most of the way on the gauge when the truck first warms up but once it hits im guessing 230ish the tstat opens or something finally flows and it goes to the middle of the gauge and never moves again and when starting the coolant system will pressureize so i figured what the hell it leaks oil has the coolant issues so ill just rip the damn thing apart gaskets are cheap enough
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...psq9fv38zb.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...pse2ipa4gx.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...psem1r3qe0.jpg
and since i have all of this going on ill take the front end apart and replace the destroyed core support once i get the a/c system emptied and try to get this truck back to 100%
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...pshizfaku3.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...pstzffg1l0.jpg
pictures of the ecu as requested from the shout box
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...psplg07eea.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...psoucclyeh.jpg
the backside of the board
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...psmcx909kk.jpg
the damaged area the 4 solder points the screwdriver is pointing at are the same on each side
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps1kesfhyr.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...pscnwjs0oq.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...psckz0x8k8.jpg better pic of the damage
So as of right now once i get the truck back together i think ill keep the stock motor for now and get this to run it with http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/d...kit-p-390.html which could be a good option for those of you wanting to do a turbo setup or a 4g63turbo it would plug in and you would only have to do some harness modifications for it and have a more reliable and useable setup than swapping to an eclipse harness and ecu
You are one determined sleauth, RNMM! And to find that circuitboard problem took some not-giving-up.
How cool, the way you used an egg carton for the valve assembly!
Since we have the same trucks, your posts really help me in many ways...including what to watch for and what to do to fix it. Thanks, though sorry you had to go to so much agony.
I use egg crates for all my disassembly you can keep them seperate that way like i have a 18egg carton with all engine bolts one with body stuff and so on keeps things organized to make reassembly a lot easier now im gonna go yank out the ac then core support then engine and trans and just go through everything while im here gaskets and oil are cheap and my labor is free so ill go have some fun!
no more pics yet but the trans engine driveshaft is all out of the truck awaiting either a refresh and install or a new heart havent decided yet but ive got a start on removing the core support so i can get the new one put on and at least try and make the truck look good lol what a major PITA it is to drill out all the spot welds though but it will be done soon and then go sit under cover so i can take care of other projects
Yeah, these trucks get great mileage but they sure eat up your time!
Are you going to clean up and rebuild the ECU yourself? There was a good tutorial on this on the net and you look like you have the skill and patience to do it. The capacitors that leak and should be replaced are pretty inexpensive from what I have been told.
Idk i might its worth it i suppose but other pices might be fried so who knows might just get megasquirt so i can log view data and tune it to my liking
I saw in chat where you discovered two cracks in your head. Sorry to hear that. What's the latest on JJ?
Well now it is going to sit and im gonna get my coupe running and ill come back to this someday prolly build the suspension and then move onto the drivetrain and decide what im gonna do but for now it will be sitting for quite a while sad to say
Miracles happen. You never know what tomorrow will bring. You just might find one for sale dirt cheap near you.
im thinking a DOHC swap with a custom exhaust megasquirt and ITBs its always good to have some diversity or maybe just keep the SOHC i dunno but a head will be needed at some point to get this underway i might sell a car to fund it i dunno i cant keep to one idea lol i wish i had like 5 of these little pickups so i could just go nuts on each one making different builds lol
:megaman: Megasquirt!?
In chat with MLS, he says the cracks in heads can be welded, but that "they don't hold". You might check around and see what's possible. Just getting the truck back on the road will allow you time to decide. Meanwhile, you'd be driving JJ. He'll take you on the journey you need to go.
yeah ive got a really good head repair shop that i might give a try but to fix it properly ill have to do new valve seats which will drive up the price cause i dont do anything halfassed if i dont need to and i want this truck to be 100% so it will not be quick but i think im gonna keep the 8v and see what i can get out of it
Well here is where it is sitting until i decide the fate of either a turbo or getting the black coupe in the middle running or getting JJ running idk yet what i want to do
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...pszqmfna0t.jpg
and this is 4 out of 6 of my vehicles pictured here with my 1973 Dodge D200 Club Cab with 360V8 727tf 2wd that my grandpa(moms dad) bought new and the frame in the back and the cab on the very left of the picture for my 1978 W150 Dodge Power Wagon that is a 360 727 and full time 4x4 that i will restore someday and the JJ the 1990 Ram 50 Sport that you all know that was my other grandpas(dads dad) and then my 1999 Dodge Neon Sport Coupe but not pictured is my 1988 W250 Power Ram and 2001 Plymouth Neon which sooner or later ill post up about those in other vehicles but this is the old carport where the mobile home used to be that is now my vehicle storage!