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Just did this on my truck and will advance timing a couple degrees to use it to max benefit... Remove (or cut) the heater lines into and from the intake, so it runs at ambient instead of whatever temp your vehicle is running, REALLY noticeable on cool crisp days (or cold even better)! I cut the small 90 degree one from t'stat first, then the one up from the heater into cab fitting, plugged both, and voila, def a bit more pep after warming the fluids up...:)! Good for bang/buck ratio!
By intake do you mean going to the throttle body?
The only problem with this is if you live in snow country the manifold will freeze up and it will run like crap when that happens. My VW would do that all the time. It would freeze from the carb to the heads. Then I would stop and watch as it unfrosted.
The vaporization of fuel, combined with the expansion of air as it flows through the carburetor, causes a sudden cooling of the mixture. The temperature of the air passing through the carburetor may drop significantly within a fraction of a second. Water vapor in the air is “squeezed out” by this cooling and, if the temperature in the carburetor reaches 0° C (32° F) or below, the moisture will be deposited as frost or ice inside the carburetor passages. Even a slight accumulation of this deposit will reduce power and may lead to complete engine failure, particularly when the throttle is partly or fully closed.
Attachment 6472 Attachment 6473
He's from Alabama, thinks "snow" comes from Columbia via Miami:-) give him time :-)
OK I'm a little confused......pics would be nice.
I have an ideal......buttt..........
No,,, everyone knows snow is only made by FordBushiQuote:
Originally Posted by LSR Mike
Summer in Canada= 2 bad weeks of skiing or Hockey or 2 good weeks of golf :P
How would a blocked intake cause "complete engine failure", and WTF is THAT? DOH, it will MELT if ice closed off intake! hehe If carbed, it would run richer! I have driven MY (then 88, 89, 90, and v6 91 MMAx THIS WAY to snow skiing EVERY YEAR from Christmas to NYear, (THATS E_V_E_R_Y year!! I owned them, with NO issues EVER! except more power and gas mileage... SO obviously, I pissed some asshole MAFIA on here off. AS usual. This works! Call (or read ANY expert person (except LSR Mike) apparently, ie Corky Bell, Gale Banks, etc, and GET THEIR opinion, advice! Jeez! Great site, Lots of GREAT info, just a "mafia" controlling it..Can I get a donation refund, and disappear?
Cold air intake is NOT cold, IF the intake runners and TB are 195 degrees or whatever water/coolant temp is (being piped through mani. I pissed someone off (though I said I didn't mean to and apologized ON HERE)... Oh well, better now than when more invested;}..Disconnect water input, and see for yourself, don't take MY word for it! Oh, look on My 350 z site for same post (and responses NONE saying this BS), or Club Frontier (for Nissan frontiers, where we did this, tested results, then installed 10 degree cooler 350 z thermostats, and tuned for even MORE power..
I ASSUME you got icing BS off aviation site..well, its at 10000 ft altitude PLUS, and is AIRCOOLED engine! Waay different to underhood environment..I call BS on LSR MIKE! because I guarantee he reduced intake and underhood air temps, OR someone else did, and that's why he no longer has LSR! BTW I built HP aircraft engines when I was young, so I KNOW icing (and when there cannot be any). Ask poster(s) to show ambient temp needed for icing, (and humidity), and air temps...AIN'T happening, in a car/truck at sea level! (not in my lifetime! so far!)
Camoit, your illustration shows a 1950's ford truck 1 barrel carb to a "log" intake & exhaust. The exhaust manifold is IN BETWEEN the intake runners!! Those runners would be waaay hotter than the 190 thermostat controlled temps, INSURING no way to ice..IMHO
Yes, disconnect hoses from heater core input (at firewall to intake) and from intake to thermostat housing.. Fell it with your hand, after plugging/disconnecting it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by camoit
SNOW? I bet he makes that Columbian snow too!
Quote:
Originally Posted by thillskier
I had an intake freeze up once in the winter. It blew out the welded seal on the bottom and cracked the intake. I know if I ran the truck with it frozen like that it would probably killed the engine by the time I hit the end of the block. What gets me is if the radiator doesn't have anti-freeze to the proper mixture and your driving it, you can bet on something getting frozen like a rock. Mine happened while it was down with trany problems. Punched out 3 freeze plugs, busted my radiator and cracked the intake manifold. I am now a little smarter about colder weather since moving north from California. :)
As for your donation...I think the hitmen will give it to you as soon as they find you. pffft! chill pills work wonders.
I've done something like that with the 80's mustangs where you bypass the coolant going to the throttle plate. yes it gives you a bit more power but when the temp hits below 34F on a day with high humidity the Idle Speed controller and throttle plate freeze up as the air going into the intake tube will drop in temp and cause ice to form before it goes into the engine. I've also had Chevette's with the 2BBL's freeze up when the lower heating element was removed. Granted the intake temp should be above freezing but with the venturi effect the air going into the carb is cooled down well below freezing before it goes into the intake and gets warmed up again. Think of it this way.... open a window in your house and put a big fan in the window at or around freezing,Turn the furnace up to 100 degrees then let the fan run and see how much ice forms on the fan blades this is basically what's happening with the carb. By passing it is fine in cool to warm conditions but in the winter you reattach the lines and you will be fine.
Well, I just didn't like BS being attributed to ME. That's what got me riled, and just keep the donation..Agreed I did respond a bit too strong to the attack on my expertise. I earned my rep/expertise, and I can ASSURE anyone there is NO way this can do anything negative to your engine. It only affects the INTAKE manifold, ALL ELSE is as designed. Of course, if some idiot runs w/o antifreeze in cold temps (less than 25 degrees usually) there can be BAD issues (as you list in your post), BUT NEVER, from an EFI intake (unless some dumb ass is running NO AIRCLEANER maybe, even then it'd be difficult to get ice/snow into it there on top of a hot engine. I guarantee all these "experts" are running unheated intakes of some sort! That's why I was so incredulous and got a bit pissed, honestly. Anyway, I realize what is happening on this site, and will post and visit where my experience/expertise is appreciated. There is some good info on here also, just some bad Nazi control freaks not wanting any one else to "move in" on their kingdom:) hehe No worries!
Again, carb icing (in steady state AIR COOLED AIRCRAFT engines is a well known and documented fact, HOWEVER, I know of NO one that has EVER had any issues in a vehicle speeding up and slowing down, idling at lights (and heat soak from that, regardless of temps. There is ALWAYS a HOT 200 degree BLAST of fan forced air heating it up some anyways. I KNOW my truck runs NUCH more efficiently, and since I started doing this in 1980's, HAVE HAD NO ISSUES ever, no matter if -5 F (one year in mountains of NCarolina ski trip)!! Just waay more power and tq! Also this is posted all over Nissan 350Z and Frontier sites/forums (by me and others) and again, thousands are doing this, with NO complaints or issues EVER from ANYONE , but many raves and thank you's attaboys from satisfied users, especially thise increasing timing 2 or 3 degrees...
Anyway, just put a VALVE on it, and turn it on if you'r freaking out for whatever reason (or you fear its too cold or whatever)!
Brad, MORE BS!! (unless you were running your vehicle without proper antifreeze mixture!! Block would go before intake anyway, as passages are small in intake (and its aluminum so can give a bit before cracking). If you disconnect water or antifreeze mix, IT CANNOT FREEZE IN WINTER, THERE IS NOTHING IN THERE, my FRIEND!! THINK ON THAT, its EMPTY of anything EXCEPT AIR!! If air freezes, the world (and everyone on here) has waay worse problems than their truck intake!
I'll check back on this thread when you can learn how to swallow being wrong. I'll let you figure this one out, but try not to argue with yourself too long ok..:rolleyes:
If you are so smart and this will do no damage to anyones car, your sure, then why tell us? Go tell all the car makers that they are spending needless money and robbing everyone of what .5 HP, which as anyone who is anyone know you can easily feel.
This is NOT a mod. And if somehow it gave you any extra HP or TQ, which I still dont see how it would, it would be so small of an amount that you could not feel it. Its a freeking coolant line that keeps your TB from icing up. Thats it. The fact your getting so angry about it sums up how much stalk I would put in any of your advice. If this is how you are going to act, we dont need this. We have plenty of very well informed and nice members. I would not say to leave, but please have some tact.
Its there to use or not, I don't care. I explained what pissed me off, the attack on my credibility and the stupidity of the moron(s) claiming engine damage. That's (IMPOSSIBLE) from this mod. But hey, why do YOU have to rant at me? Just IGNORE IT (and me)! Have a nice day. This is a UNFORTUNATE all too common problem on the net, sophomoric and uninformed people ganging up on someone offering help (for FREE, by the way)!! Whatever, Brad. I am not the one wrong, and trying to BS someone! Ignore it, as stated already...unless someone is "PISSING ON YOUR PARADE" and you're upset, hehe. Then, attack someone who cares about what someone who knows that little about engine dynamics they'd state something OBVIOUS wrong, then defend it! This truck (like all my other 8 I owned like it or similar, ALL responded as this one, very well...Its just the STUPIDITY of fools who buy a CAI, but then leave HOT water making the CAI ineffective!! Sheesh!
You are correct in the fact that there are all to many "sophomoric and uninformed people" on the internet.
Its foolish to think that the coolant is heating your in comming air up to the point that it makes a difference in performance. As its been said before if that was the case you would have way worse problems from the underhood temps causing heat soak of parts. Anytime the air outside is cooler you will feel a noticeable difference. So basicly every morning will run better then middle of the day.
The intake heat was an EPA mandate to get the intake charge warmer faster in cold weather for emissions - on an NA engine eated or not makes little difference. On a turbo motor, the cooler the intake the denser the air for more fuel under boost. So, quit the flaming and settle down - its not a big deal either way.
This thread needs to be sealed, packaged, compacted and used as a cork for the next deep ocean water oil spill. Just my opinion.:usa:
Take it down a step people.
This is a discussion not a pissing match.
Yes the colder the air going into an engine will increase performance. Thats why drag racers ice the manifold before a run. So yes he is correct. When I went to UTI back in the 80s we put nitrous on a diesel drag car. We could drop the intake air temp to -134 the colder the air, the denser the molecules are together. So this means,,,, what,,,, more air, more volume metric efficiency = more power and torque..
While this is a perfectly viable mod for some trucks in there local operation conditions, it may not be for others. Thats why in the Terms of Service agreement it clearly states do not do anything you may read. Read the DISCLAIMER.
He has experience in what he is doing, and what he is talking about. All of you do.
Just keep in mind everything you read, everything you type, is in your own opinion and means diddle squat in the big picture. Whats the big picture you ask? Helping others learn about there trucks and building the membership. Thats it. So please put aside the deference of opinions. If you ask a mechanic, "whats you favorite silicone"? you will get a different answer from each of them. I like Ultra Blue, just because it does not get a hard turd in the cap for up to 2 months. Some like black because it's easy to paint over, and so on..
In fact thillskier is probably one of the few guys on here that know why they put thousands of little holes around the inside of the cowling of a jet engine intake. Or why we put a chain to the engine on light aircraft that run a metal propeller VS wood.
FordBushi is a Canadian and if he still had the Mitsu engine it would not be a good idea for him to run the mod, just because it's frozen about 75% of the time. Me it would be just fine because I live on the Leftest coast.
PennyMan1,, well he is a living and breathing Wiki on these trucks and more and was right on the spot on one of the reasons why we added the heated intakes.
In fact everyone should put up an apologize and make nice or I'll send all of you to the M-User group for a time out.
.
Pennyman, On my e36 M3, many experts say the egr fills vacuum at part throttle in the BMW set up, supposedly helping mileage by reducing the resistance of piston movement due to increased vacuum in cylinders at part throttle. (admittedly this is a probably very small amount of drag, but on diesel trucks with egr, removing it adds about 4 mpg or 20% mpg improvement (and tq)! On these engines does it do the same thing, or just is there for emissions, choking performance with heated, oxygen depleted air? I haven't had time to study the systems working(s) yet..ANd may be going turbo diesel soon. Working on some Pajero 4D56's at a good price for us...
No apology needed, ain't my first rodeo;)! but thanks anyways, Camoit. Discussion sometimes can aid in discovery, IF constructive.
What are you calling BS? The fact that my Intake temps are lower than Coolant temp?Quote:
Originally Posted by thillskier
for me LSR is Land Speed Racing. I still have it.
http://www.mmeierle.com/World%20Fina...20Timeslip.jpg
We all have been to a lot of rodeo's...and there is more than one black belt in the Dojo...
SORRY LSR thought I saw that got beat! Kudos! wondering tho, why u hitting on my post negatively? U KNOW I speak truth!
Attachment 6523
per request of the boss...
Here is my apology :P
I am sorry if I offended anyone, I should of lied.
Or u took it wrong. .seem's u are looking to fight..
Thanks Brad..U da Man!
Quote:
Originally Posted by thillskier
Like I said,
If you ask a mechanic, "whats you favorite silicone"? you will get a different answer from each of them.
boobie silicone? I imagineQuote:
Originally Posted by camoit
I'm not hitting on your post, you called me BS. I assume it from your other thread about water temps and air temps. that is another discussion. That time did get beat this year at Bonneville by 20 MPH. those guys have way more money and time than I do. I still hold the record on the Wilmington Mile at 157 and change..... but enough already, hatchet buried. post up some pix of your truck...Quote:
Originally Posted by thillskier
After looking at your setups and trucks, I gotts get "some work in" first:)! SHe's getting there, just "my way" mechanical basics first, catch up neglected maintainance items, then decide what to do next.. Its a plain white truck at present, tho running pretty strong for a almost stocker..more to come tho.. ANyway anyone who ever attempted a world record (IDK if its tiddly winks, and a LSR IMHO def is a HISTORIC! WIN! I know, I tried for records in a sport for many years, its TOUGH!! (and expensive)!! Got one in College, tho, and it feels GOOD! That you will never forget! Congrats, on that, also. ALL I was saying re intake temps were that you didn't heat your air any with anything before your run, that's all..Sorry if I was misunderstood!
All this over something so simple. His info says he lives in AL. LIke me here in NC we never see below 0 temps so his truck doesn't need this. I remove them in most of my vehicles. Doesn't matter what temp the intake manifold is, if it goes in cooler it'll be cooler at the head. Will it be the same temp at the head as the t-body? No but it'll be cooler than going through a hot t-body. What Mitsubishi told me is they put these in all vehicles for different reason than stated in the post. It was put there to prevent throttle plates from freezing in place in colder climates which could lead to accidents like Toyota had recently where customers couldn't stop the vehicle with the engine wide open. Nissan and even Chrysler have stopped using heated t-bodys recently since computer management and advanced sensors in the throttle body can tell if it's frozen or stuck and will put the vehicle into limp mode.
i made myself some popcorn and then i read this whole thread. no lie. wow.. lol
Being as Thillskier has a '95 MM would his engine not be fuel injected? A throttle body injector system may get an icing problem as the air/fuel mix has to travel further, but would a multi-port system? When the ambient temp is below 32 deg. any moisture that was in the air should already be frozen. Freezing cold air is dry. Moisture that is in air above 32 deg. that passes through an intake that is below 32 deg. will condense and freeze on the cold surface of the intake. Would moisture not also freeze to the outside of the intake also and show as frost. The cylinder head should get hot enough to keep the intake from getting too cold in a multi port system. Would adding some gas line anti-freeze to the fuel make a difference for throttle body injection and carburetor systems?
His truck is fuel injected, it started in 1990.
The could possibly be some issues in a frigid environment. But in (to me) very cold temps for many years, I have done this with nothing adverse, but a little better tq/hp from being able to push timing a bit and the increased air density from a few degrees (more or less) less intake air temps (at valve).I have never done instrumented tests, however..since it was kinda common sense to me (and always worked w/o issues) for me. Did the M3 this AM and it felt a bit better as well. When I did the GBuy at UPREV for V6 Nissan Frontiers in 2008, we got as much as 12 hp when tuning for a 350 Z water temp vs stock Frontier water temps. We advanced timing by a few degrees (and everyone had the TBody heaters disconnected w/o issues).
Honestly it has to be COLD for that theory to work andy. Remember the air entering the engine already passes over the engine if it's a 4g64 by the intake tube and that will warm up the air by warming the tube enough for freezing moisture to not be a problem. That engine bay is warm even if it's below 0 outside and the engine is running and warmed up. The intake will pick up below 0 air but it'll be warmed up to a usable temp once it gets into the engine compartment. My 95 sentra and my 06 sentra responded well to removing the t-body coolant lines.
@Brad.. yes I got an e-mail notification about ur comment, but it magically disappeared before I could reply :grinno: must be those new Mod. tools u been utilizing.. LOL
and yes, too much free time that moves hellaaaa slow and days blend in w/ one another.. I hope I don't go insane or gain more "insulation"...or both up in this bisshhh. :lmao:
Attachment 6974
BEFORE
Attachment 6975
AFTER
So after digging this up from the archives, I decided to try it. I wanted to keep function as close to OE as possible, and gratefully there was enough hose to just bypass the throttle body with no other mod needed. I only had to disconnect the intake manifold support and run the hose under it. Then I topped off the coolant and took a test drive. Haven't adjusted timing or anything, but so far so good - started, ran, and Temp Needle was on point. That's a good start, and we'll go from there.
It froze Friday night here, and MAN the truck ran GREAT Sat AM, much "crisper" and torque was up:)! It stayed that way, IMHO, due to cold air staying cold with heater removed (in tb).
Did this "mod" in my old civic. Idle got a little loopy because of it. Put the coolant hoses back and the loopyness disappeared. Was going to do the same for my truck, but figured keep it hooked up, as long as it don't corrode.