The first rule about the super secret squirrel handshake society is that you never talk about the super secret squirrel handshake society
Quote:
Originally Posted by claych
Printable View
The first rule about the super secret squirrel handshake society is that you never talk about the super secret squirrel handshake society
Quote:
Originally Posted by claych
Why I didn't say anything about it. Lol
wow,
what does 'vato' mean ??
..one of your bros/homeboys :)
Engine is out.
Attachment 23654
Attachment 23655
Dirty girl...
Found the problem.
Attachment 23656
Attachment 23657
And that explains why the timing was constantly off...
Please do take a trip to The United States ,pm Me your itinerary ...Quote:
Originally Posted by geezer101
Hmm, ate a guide. This is one of the things that has put me off the 4G52/54 engines are the collection of guides and chains. It makes working on them complicated. I think there's a non-balance shaft chain kit for the 4G54 (forklift engine?)
@ claych - glad you'd have me, but if I'm struggling to get my truck on the road there ain't much chance of getting myself on a plane :lmao:
It did more than that... It tore the bolt out of the balance shaft, destroying the end of the balance shaft and ripping the gear completely off the end of the balance shaft
Ah well. That kit does exist, and after all of the cleaning and disassembly I'll be ordering parts.
More pics of the carnage:
Attachment 23658
Attachment 23659
Bearings are completely destroyed. The crank doesn't look much better, unfortunately... It'll need the journals polished at a minimum.
Jeez, that is easily as bad as the catastrophic damage my original G63B engine went through. With the bottom end that badly chewed up, I'd be worried about the head. Got my fingers crossed your crank can be salvaged...
The crank will need polishing, but the scratches aren't very deep so it shouldn't need ground...
Attachment 23660
Attachment 23661
Attachment 23662
Attachment 23663
Attachment 23664
The rear main seal might need some help, but it should be fine.
Yepppp, another balance shaft failure. Sounds like you have a good handle on it. I think, but someone else should confirm, that the cam chain tensioner is pressurized by the oil pump. Pretty sure the little spring in there is just to keep it tensioned while the engine is shut off. Low oil pressure could explain why your timing was jumping around. I can't tell by the picture, but it looks like the guide still had some meat on it.
WarStryker, hope you enjoy wrenching and getting your hands dirty NOT ME, I do THIS if I see any dirty work to be done ----> :dogrun:
Attachment 23689
Well there's yer problem.
balance shaft seized I assume...
Whoa, that is one ugly hunk of metal...
overpowered engine damage :(
I've made an executive decision: This rebuild will NOT be accomplished "properly" or in the "right" way.
I am not taking this to a machine shop, I am not having a shop do a "professional" job, I am not spending that kind of money.
However, this engine WILL run again.
I am going to polish the crank journals by hand. I'm going to (carefully) clean up/polish the cam journals both in the head and on the cam. I am going to very lightly hone the cylinder bores, clean the block and paint it Chrysler Hemi Orange (just because).... And I will be putting in new main bearings, rod bearings, piston rings, a new timing set, balance shaft delete kit, and new oil pump.
I am going to measure every bearing clearance, but I will be fixing non-optimal clearances with liberal treatments of Motor Honey or equivalent oil additives and stabilizers. I will be using a proper engine break-in oil for the first start up and (however long) break-in period.
I might try a bottle or two of the "nano-particle" or "metal treatment" oil additives, give this engine the best chance to survive the horrific things I'm about to do to it... :lmao:
I do really wish I could do this the "proper" way, "professionally" and whatnot... But I don't have the money or time right now, and if this works I'll do a legit turbo 2.6 build for this truck. Later.
Forgive me for the sins I am about to commit... lol
I can't speak for anyone other than myself...but I've certainly committed more egregious sins. :grin: Well, maybe I haven't set out with such things in mind, but there's nothing more permanent than a temporary solution! Get it!
There's a lot to weigh up on any project. I had only ever done top end work on engines before and the prospect of taking an engine in for machining and a full rebuild is still daunting. Last summer my Hung Dog wagon bit it hard - radiator split and it overheated badly. I managed to limp it home belching black smoke and knocking like an angry hoard of rioters and I felt I didn't have anything to lose by pulling the engine and giving it an autopsy. Turned out the bores and block weren't chewed up and the head didn't crack or warp so I threw the dice. I polished up the rod journals and deglazed the bores (using what is probably the most unorthordox method I could come up with/anyone has ever used...) , polished up the pistons and installed new standard rings, gave the head to a shop for a once over (hot tank, pressure test, 3 way valve cut) Not the way to do a full engine build but it is still going strong and hasn't griefed me at all. It wasn't cheap getting a new radiator, a full VRS kit and having the head prepped by a shop but it was put back together and got running on a very tight budget and time frame - in my driveway.
warstryker13,
After You -abuse (lol) the crankshaft journals & take measurements.
Pay an PROFESSIONAL PARTS SUPPLIER to provide You with a 'custom' bearing set.
Edit,
> 'custom' < each bearing is sized to a specific journal.
I'm not looking to take that much off of the journals, I'm just trying to get them to a polished finish.
I will measure the clearance just to be sure, but if it's 6 thousandths or less I'm calling it good enough.
I cheated with the journals - I used paper towel, a nylon ratchet strap and some autosol polish. I folded up the paper towel, put a small swab of the metal polish onto it and then wrapped the paper towel around the journal. The nylon ratchet strap then wrapped around the paper towel and I see-sawed it back and forth to buff up the journal. Not the perfect way to do it but it polished up. I only did the rod journals and not the mains. I also buffed the old bearings up gently by hand using the paper towel and autosol. The bearings weren't munched but were a little laminated from the gunk in the engine. Still going strong...
I'm going to use crocus cloth to polish the journals, it's a very fine soft abrasive cloth that is comparable to 1500-2000 grit...
It's an old product, it's similar to emery cloth but instead of abrasive grit that is glued to a cloth backing, it's a loose iron oxide abrasive embedded into the cloth. It's perfect for a fine polish on metal surfaces, and very difficult to find now.
The good news is that I found a 60ft roll of it for less than $20 on the McMaster-Carr website.
^never knew something like that even existed! Sounds old school... 60ft is a lot of cloth tape, but for $20 you don't have to worry about wasting it.
Plastigauge?? or Telescoping Gauge & Micrometer ??Quote:
Originally Posted by WarStryker13
Plastigauge, because a bore gauge and micrometer are much more expensive. I'll measure in multiple places on the journals, but it'll have to do.
Small update:
I've gotten the block almost completely cleaned, just a few more small spots to take care of before it's ready for paint. Side note: it took two different razor scrapers and 6 razor blades just to get the old paper oil pan gasket off. Timing cover gasket was only slightly easier to remove.
I'm going to be spraying it Chrysler Hemi Orange, because hemi, and because there was no way I was going to go with black after the amount of effort I've put into it so far.
I'm leaving the timing cover and rear cover as bare aluminum, along with the head and valve cover. I will be fogging the oil pan orange once it's cleaned up as well.
I did have a question about the rocker assembly: do the shafts press out of the caps, or am I missing something? I don't want to destroy something by accident, but those rocker shafts need to come apart so I can get them as clean as possible.
I understand that I most likely won't get every single last particle of bearing material out of the engine, but I'm trying to get enough out that the oil filter will catch whatever's left, and the moly lube will grab what the oil filter doesn't.
And no, I haven't started polishing the crankshaft yet. I had an extremely busy two weeks at work before going on holiday leave and I did not actually get the crocus cloth ordered. At this point I don't know if I even will order it, because I found a few sheets of 2,000 grit sandpaper in a drawer that I forgot about, and I might just use that for the final polish.
I haven't made as much progress as I would have liked to have made by this point, but progress has been made.
It's been a while, but I seem to remember that there was a retaining ring on the end of the rocker shaft. Once you removed it, everything slid right off. Next time your fighting a paper gasket, get out a propane torch. I've found burning the gasket does a great job of getting it to let go. Also, the "surface conditioning discs" on a die grinder work great. They are basically a very coarse scotch brite pad. Just be extra careful on aluminum that you don't dig into the mating surface. They are about all I use now for cleaning gasket surfaces. Blocks, heads, water pumps, etc. Road salt and oil/grease will make your timing cover look nasty in short order. Consider a silver brake caliper paint. Will look close to aluminum, and not get as crusty.
Progress is progress, keep it up!
Thanks for the reply about the rocker shafts.
I wish I had thought about the scotch brite wheel before, probably would have saved me so much time.
I've still got to soak the pistons, main caps, rocker shafts, front and rear covers, the head, and assorted hardware in some degreaser/cleaner, clean the oil pan and prep it for paint, and all the front accessories still to clean...
All that, and I still don't have all the parts and gaskets to reassemble the engine.
I really wish this engine had held together until after the holidays. Lol
Quick update:
Attachment 23823
Attachment 23824
Block is painted Chrysler Hemi Orange.
Almost ready to assemble the short block, still have quite a bit left to clean before I can get the entire engine back together.
Progress is painfully slow, but it is still progress.
The hemi orange is out of control! There is nothing like a freshly painted block to raise an engine bay a level or 2. Nice :grin:
Made some decent progress...
I de-glazed the cylinder walls with a homemade tool, basically a stack of ScotchBrite pads, a few washers, and some all-thread.
I measured all of the clearances, they're all either within spec or close enough. I would list all of the individual measurements, but I don't remember them exactly. I did at least write down the min/max of the measurements that I took, which are as follows:
Main bearing oil clearances are all between 0.001" and 0.002", rod bearing oil clearances are all between 0.0015" and 0.0025". Service limit is 0.004" oil clearance for the main and rod bearings.
Attachment 23995
Piston ring end gaps are between 0.016" and 0.019" for the top compression rings, 0.012" and 0.016" for the second rings, and 0.014" and 0.016" for the oil rings.
Service limit is 0.031" end gap for the top and second ring, 0.039" for the oil ring.
Attachment 23996
I slammed the pistons back in last night for the final assembly, after letting them soak in some SAE 40 oil for a few hours, and I officially have a (mostly) assembled short block.
I did have some questions now that I'm at this point:
1. Is there a specific number of ft-lbs for the amount of torque it should take to rotate the crank? Right now I have the crank bolt and washer threaded into the end of the crankshaft, and using that I'm measuring it at approximately 65 ft-lbs. Once it starts rotating, it becomes easier to keep it rotating with a ratchet on the end of the crank bolt.
2. I know that there are certain engines which are very difficult to rotate when freshly built/rebuilt, and once the bearings are "broken in" the engine rotates much easier. Is the G54B similar?
3. I'm planning on using break-in oil for the first start-up and first 500(ish) miles. Is there any recommendation on what brand of break-in oil would be best?
4. Is there any recommendation on what weight of oil to run in this engine AFTER the break-in period, considering the oil clearances are only slightly more than standard specifications, but well below the service limits?
The new gaskets and seals should be here by the end of today, but I might not get anything else done until after the weekend.
I did get a good look at the old oil pump... It's completely worn out. There's deep grooves cut into the housing by one of the gears, and both gear shafts have a lot of play in their bores, even with the pump assembled. The balance shaft chain rubber guides are completely mangled, the timing chain rubber guides are cracked and missing chunks, and the timing chain tensioner spring was completely stuck inside the oil pump housing. The timing gears themselves don't show signs of excessive wear, but the teeth on the crankshaft gear for the balance shaft chain look like shark fins and both of the smaller gears have quite a bit of damage to the teeth, likely from the chain failure.
It's gonna be a while before I can afford a new timing set, new oil pump, the balance shaft elimination kit and the new gears and chain guide for it, new head bolts, and all the fluids and miscellaneous things that are keeping me from getting this engine back in the truck.
Thanks for taking the time to read my brain-dump, and thanks in advance for any and all feedback.
Oh, and there is about half of a 16oz tube of moly lube in the short block right now, because you can never have too much lubrication.
I've had nothing to do but think about it while at work these past few days, and I'm not happy with the cylinder walls.
Attachment 24050Attachment 24051
I just want to get rid of the wear marks and get a proper crosshatch pattern.
The ScotchBrite barely touched the buildup at the top of the cylinder... I'm gonna need an actual cylinder hone.
How many passes did you make? I used the same technique with a little fresh engine oil just to prevent it from ripping into the cylinder walls and, although my bores weren't vertically scored like yours are, I managed to completely de-glaze the surface (might need to use a coarser finished pad... I tried with the spring loaded stone tool and I was scared that it was too aggressive so I gave this method a shot) If you are going to hone it you may be going beyond the tolerancing for 'stock' pistons and rings. I think the rule is that if your thumb nail can catch on the score marks, it's time to rebore the cylinders.
I went at the cylinders for a solid 30 seconds each, but I'm gonna say it's because the "tool" I made just doesn't have enough material to put enough pressure against the cylinder walls. I could probably buy more ScotchBrite pads and make it thick enough to do the job, but it would end up costing more than just getting one of those spring loaded cylinder hones.
According to the factory specs, the piston-to-bore clearance in a brand new G54B should be 0.0009", and the limit is 0.0008" to 0.0016". Right now I've got a piston-to-bore clearance of 0.0008" to 0.001".
So as long as I'm particularly careful with the hone, I should be able to get a good crosshatch pattern and get rid of all of the score marks without going too far past the clearance limit. Considering the nature of this rebuild, I would still feel comfortable if I ended up at 0.002" piston-to-bore clearance. It might not be optimal, but it will run and right now that's all I'm going for.
It's looking good. I'm sure it'll run just fine!
Finally ordered the new timing set, balance shaft delete kit, new guides, new sprockets, new oil pump, new head bolts, and a new oil pickup tube.
I got a new oil pickup tube because I didn't want to try un-crimping and re-crimping the old oil pickup screen, and the new one was $16.
I still have to buy a clutch alignment tool, some gasket sealer goop, the oil and coolant, some fresh gas to put in the tank...
And one of those universal triple gauge sets. I'm not gonna try starting this engine without knowing exactly how much oil pressure it has... Plus I'd like to know actual numbers for temperature and volts.
The total for this rebuild is currently right around $250, not including tools or cleaning supplies.
Everything except the oil pump has shown up...that won't be here until the 22nd. I'm actually pleasantly surprised by the timing set. It's from ITM Engine Components, and everything looks to be of decent quality. I found it on Amazon for $44, P/N 053-93800, and it has everything. It's a regular timing set, with a balance shaft delete kit and all of the sprockets and guides included.
I went ahead and bought that spring-loaded cylinder hone, on my next day off I'm going to tear the engine apart (again) and get the cylinders honed (properly).
I picked up some high-tack gasket sealer for the cork gaskets, Indian Head shellac for the paper gaskets, PTFE thread sealant for the block plugs, valve lapping compound, more RTV, a couple extra fuel filters, and the clutch alignment tool.
I had to get a 1/8" NPT female to 1/8" BSPT male adapter fitting in order to run the new oil pressure gauge, and it was hell to track one down.
I also picked up a jug of Super Clean and way too many cans of brake clean from Walmart, because cheap, and I'm going to try and finish cleaning everything that's left before the oil pump shows up.
I'm gonna soak the head overnight to try and break up all of the carbon deposits that I can't reach, finish cleaning the oil pan so it can be painted, clean up all of the valvetrain and hardware, and clean up the front accessories and brackets.
The only things I still need to purchase is the engine oil and filter, a fresh set of spark plugs, and some fresh coolant. I'm still considering grabbing a bottle of engine break-in oil additive, or one of those fancy engine treatments with friction modifiers and micro-lubricants that soak into metal surfaces.
I'm excited. I can see the finish line, and it feels absolutely fantastic.
yeah, i have an 82 motor going in 87, i am getting my restricted license in 2 weeks (finally got all as and bs [all shit and bull shit] for that lower insurance) i cant wait to be driving. mom says i drive like hell on wheels, which means i drive good. i took a 05 yukon through gorgia mountains at 80 mph last summer and dad said i done real good. cant wain to go on my first camping trip, i have a camper top and a 6' cot which fits perfectly in the bed. i like that red color, trimming my silver 87 in red. Attachment 24179Attachment 24180Attachment 24181Attachment 24182
here:
Shame that 82 has so much rust, those are pretty rare...
If you're willing to listen to it, I've got a little bit of advice for you: Take some driving classes.
You'll learn a hell of a lot more about how to drive than you thought was possible. I got the chance to take a few driving classes at a legitimate racetrack, and it completely changed the way I think and how I drive on a regular basis.
It will keep that "hell on wheels" away from public roads where one tiny mistake could put yourself and others in danger, and you'll learn how to use it like a weapon... There's a reason why professional drivers get paid well.
As for your 87, I would suggest keeping the red subtle. If you have to follow the stereotypical teenager thing and make everything look gaudy with bright colors in weird places, at least use vinyl wrap or plasti-dip. It's much easier to remove than paint, and you don't run the risk of permanent stains or damage.
Now, more updates.
The cylinder head, camshaft, valves, springs, retainers, keepers, spring seats, rocker shafts, rocker shaft caps, and a few other bits are soaking in Super Clean... I think 48 hours should do the trick.
I got the inside of the oil pan almost completely clean, there's still a bit of sludge/buildup inside the baffle but I'm reasonably confident that all of the bearing material is out of it. I'm going to do this the easy way and just fill the oil pan with full strength Super Clean and let it soak.
I absolutely love this Super Clean stuff. I wish I had started using it sooner...
I highly agree with this! Back in high school I had worked a summer job 2-3 years saving up for my dream car, a starquest, I finally saved up to buy one and traveled out of state to acquire this dream car of mine. It took me many months and disappointing times of calling on ads only to have the car sell within hours of its posting. well I went to the bank to get the money to go buy the car out of state hoping that the 1 or 2 other people looking to buy it before me would flake out. When I was in the bank getting the money the lady at the counter asked me what kind of car I had saved up for. when I told her she said she used to have one and absolutely loved it...until her boyfriend went and raced it and blew up the engine. after that my family went up to Portland Oregon to buy this car and we lucked out in that the other parties didn't buy it so I did! the guy I bought it from, the original owner warned me that it was a tail happy car. later that night we stopped at a motel with the car on the trailer in front of the lobby. the guy at the desk came out and said it was the same car he was looking at to buy but didn't for some reason I cant remember but he said his dad owned one when he was a kid but said his sisters boyfriend stole it and wrapped it around a pole! I should have gotten the message by now!Quote:
Originally Posted by WarStryker13
fast forward a while and after I had replaced the bad clutch that the car needed when I bought it and had some miles under my belt both driving normally and crazy, a close friend of mine went driving one night and I decided for some reason that I should show off. I was approaching a corner that seemed much wider than I had thought and decided to punch it in 3rd and send the car sideways around the turn and before I knew it I had screwed up big time! the car went too far and I had the wheels locked in the opposite direction when the back end decided to grab and send the car right into an rock embankment.
Attachment 24210
All that hard work was gone in a second. I was in a pretty hard spot in my life and it nearly put me over the edge. I regrouped and lucked out and found an identical parts car and went to work. over 200 hours later I found myself with a car that was never quite the same. I hope to eventually fix it the right way but thats besides the point. had things gone differently me or my friend could have been seriously hurt or even killed. sure I only hit the wall at about 30-35mph but the car almost rolled and had it hit differently the force could have been more head on and really hurt us more. I had neck issues for the next few years after that but had things happened differently it could have been worse. I learned that as fun as driving is you never really understand how wrong things can go when they do.
as to the modding of your truck its yours and you can do as you please of course, but try to avoid anything permanent because your tastes will change. When I got my truck at age 14 I did all kinds of mods that I came to regret later and took a lot of work to change later. I painted my dash black and it was a nightmare to fix which eventually required replacing with a donor, I cut holes in the door panels for some cheapo walmart speakers that I then realized kept the windows from opening all the way. I learned more about speakers and found some quality ones that fit in the stock location that sounded way better. Im sure there are a million things I have done only to regret later but luckily none involved any cutting metal on the body or anything too permanent. my advice is if you modify anything keep the original part and if you have to cut up a part try to use a donor part to use if possible and when it comes to aftermarket radios use an adapter harness, its a million times nicer that cutting up the stock wiring and you'l thank me when you go to replace it in the future;) hope all this saves you (or anyone else reading this) some future grief
I have done this, mom said I drove like hell on wheels when I started (which is her way of saying I drove good) and dad said I do good too. I took a 05 yukon through the Georgia mountains at 60 -80 mph last summer and it was honestly really fun. And dad said that was some of my best driving. I have studied my book up and down and have learned from a man who can drive a semi truck for 28 hours straight only stopping to pee and eat. That's a round trip from SC to MI and back. I started on a dirtbike when I was 4, been using clutch since 8 years old or so. I am 15. My first truck I ever drove was a 1980's model Touota Pickup that dad sold to some Cubans who imported it back to Cuba. I miss that truck. But yes, I know how to drive, I am not saying i know everything, but i fair better than most, you could say.Quote:
Originally Posted by WarStryker13
As in hell on wheels being a big exaggeration lol
I had forgot about my earlier post, sorry if it's literally a repeat. Cant edit.
I wasn't saying you were inexperienced or didn't know how to drive, but you sound like I did when I was 15 and I don't want you to learn the hard way... like I did.
I've been driving since I was 10, and I started racing dirt track and jr. drags at 13. I won close to 75% of the races I entered, and there's a closet full of trophies at my parents house that told me I knew what I was doing. I truly believed I knew how to drive by the time I was 15, but life will almost always kick you in the nuts and make sure you understand that you should never be comfortable in your own abilities, or your knowledge of something.
When you get comfortable, you get complacent. When you get complacent, you let yourself make little mistakes because you trust your own ability to deal with the situation. Those little mistakes always add up, and they will always come back to bite you when you don't expect it.
I got that lesson at 19 years old, when I rolled my first car that I bought on my own 2 1/2 times. I was going the speed limit, I had good tires, good brakes, good suspension and steering, and none of that mattered when a fox darted out in front of the car while I was going around a corner. I saw it in time to hit the brakes and slow down enough for the damn thing to make it across the road, but that didn't happen. The fox decided to turn around right before I hit it. It managed to bend the driver's side tie rod in and I couldn't countersteer when the tail end of the car started swinging around. I went off the road and the back driver's side tire caught the outside of the ditch, and all of this happened in a fraction of a second. I tore my left rotator cuff, and my passenger ended up with a couple of fractured vertebra in his neck.
It wasn't until I took those racing classes that I figured out why I had that accident. I realized that even the best driver in the world can make no mistakes and still wreck, because there is no way to control what happens outside of the vehicle, or someone else's actions.
That's why I suggested taking driving lessons, because they can teach you how to react to something you've never encountered before AND have you physically experience it in a controlled, safe environment. It doesn't matter how long you've been driving or how much you know, because as soon as an accident happens your brain gets flooded with adrenaline and you can't think about what you should do, you just react by muscle memory.
Those driving courses will help you teach your body how to react before your brain can react by forcing you to make split second decisions and avoid moving obstacles while going 60+ mph in heavy rain, or by having you hydroplane at 100+ mph twenty times in a row, or by having you roll a cage car until you throw up. The most important part of these classes is when they teach you the little details and techniques that have taken every professional racer decades of failure to figure out.
My point is, you don't ever want to think that you have enough knowledge or experience. That is how you end up learning this particular life lesson the hard way, and the hard way could cost you your life...or someone else's life. That's a risk I sincerely hope you are not willing to take.
Now I want to take some classes
I highly recommend it, even if you're never going to be on a race track.
On another note, I pulled the hoses off of the coolant pipe to clean it up and now I'm sad.
Attachment 24213Attachment 24214Attachment 24215
The ends are paper thin and already collapsing just from handling, and there's plenty of evidence that someone tried using stop-leak in the cooling system at some point.
I've already flushed out the heater core with distilled water, I'll work on flushing out the radiator at some point before it goes back in the truck.
Now I get to look for a used coolant pipe in decent shape; see if I can fab one up myself or find a shop to do it for a reasonable price; or dredge through the oem-auto-source-warehouse-direct-parts sites to find it at a reasonable shipping rate. I might call some of the local dealerships, see if they've got one sitting on the back shelf that hasn't been touched in 25 years... eBay is my last choice because the shipping is usually more than it realistically should be for me.
Just gotta keep telling myself that I'm getting close, I'm in the home stretch.... :lmao:
I've seen plenty of the coolant bypass pipes rot on the heater hose end. It's pretty common. As pennyman suggested, a hydraulic shop could make one (I've toyed with the idea of making it out of copper plumbing pipe and soldering elbows and mounts for the 'steam punk' look lol) With the amount of these engines around I would hope that someone would have a lead on new bypass pipes.
Oh, better add a tip - go to a supermarket and buy citric acid powder from the baking aisle. Dissolve a stack of it in hot water and use it to descale your radiator. Take the radiator out, lie it horizontally with the cap on and the inlet/outlet facing up and fill the radiator with the solution and leave it for a few hours. Pour the solution into a bucket, flush the radiator in both directions with a garden hose and look for debris/junk that comes out of it and if you think it needs longer, refill it with the reclaimed solution. IIRC you've already taken the heater out but this does a great job with heater cores too. They collect a lot of calcification and rust flakes etc and this stuff does a good job of dissolving contaminants in cooling systems. I have heard of guys filling their entire cooling system with a strong solution of citric acid powder and running it for a day or 2 but you'd want to really flush it out afterwards and remove both the heater core and radiator so they can be reverse flushed as the crap from the block will try to plug up the inlet sides of coolant galleries. This will expose weaknesses in the cooling system so if there are and perforations or holes anywhere, it will eat through the corrosion and start leaking.
Wow, that's some good insight. I will look into racing classes, I have already taken the driver education course (lower insurance) and passed perfectly. That reminds me of the movie Ford V Ferarri when Ken Miles had brake fade and went off the track and the car blew up, him in it. You're absolutely right, never thought of that.
I pulled my Jose's out and someone had used well water. Oh and I found out my 2.6 had a cracked block, and it was dripping coolant there, not the raditor. I am gonna get it rebuilt though, it looks rough. I have silicone hoses to go on the truck, I would reccomend those.
Heater's still in the truck, I only had to replace the section of rubber hose on the valve under the dash.
I've got the citric acid powder, and I had a pretty similar plan, but I'l probably add in one or two extra steps... Maybe a garden hose in the inlet and no thermostat, upper hose pointing straight down to the ground and just spin the water pump to get everything I can out of the block, or do the dexcool removal flush I learned from my old car forum buddies (it involves a few chemicals and a spirited drive, pulling a hose and dumping the hot garbage out of the engine while it's still hot, and garden hoses)....And I'm probably gonna fog the radiator with some fresh black paint before it goes back in.
Just need enough time to get it all done.
I'm just glad to hear that you're willing to learn, because it'll only make you better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Salteen
If the block itself is cracked you might not be able to have it rebuilt, but if it's salvageable I would suggest doing a full rebuild and keeping it just in case. And keep the silicone hoses for yourself, toss them behind the seat in case you suddenly need a new hose on the side of the road 10 miles from anywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Salteen
Thermostat out is a good idea. Shouldn't need to tell you not to flush a hot engine with a garden hose though lol. My knuckle head cousin did that to a car that he'd just overheated. Pulled into the driveway and jammed a hose straight into the radiator. Split the head... and his dad was a mechanic :rolleyes:
Fresh black paint will help heat transference and looks nice too :P
*side story. A friend of mine owns a '74 Mazda 808 and I offered to do a chemical flush on his heater. I use a pressure cleaner with a bad pressure regulator in it. Filled up a bucket with citric acid solution, one end hooked up to a heater hose, the pick for the pressure cleaner submerged in the bucket and the heater core outlet hanging over the bucket to dump it out. Got it running and within 5 minutes lots of old murky green coolant sludge started flowing along with 'gravel' (rust granules and white calcification - lots of it). Reversed flushed it and it kept coming. This is good! No more crap coming out. Get into the car - floor is wet. The years of crap were plugging up all of the holes in one end tank and it was spraying like a shower head under the dash. The core was bad for a long time and it set him back $400AUD to get one made...
I went ahead and made a new "How-To" thread for a simplified version of the flush I like to do when I find a problem with contaminated cooling systems.
The garden hose is only used once the engine has cooled sufficiently.
Yeah, anytime an engine overheats you can be damn sure the thermo is shot too.
It depends on how bad the engine overheated, but it's always a good idea to replace it anyways...
Tracking on the new oil pump is now saying it will arrive on Friday instead of today, so I'm still going to be waiting to re-assemble.
Well true, but usually either people dont realise it's overheated until it ceases, or they are sitting at a redlight behind grandma and it's like that for an eternity. Not often do you see a engine that mildly overheats, and usually that's caused by low coolant. But the thermo.on theaw trucks are like a 190 thermo or something really low. I would say 205 is the point the gasket goes, 215 the head, 225 for the block
These engines definitely don't like heat...
That's exactly why I'm taking extra precautions with the cooling system. I'm going to clean out the radiator as much as I possibly can, and maybe pressure test it if I can figure out how to do it myself... Or see if I can find a place to do it for cheap enough. I want to do the same with the heater core, but I really don't feel like pulling the dash back out unless I absolutely have to.
I've got a full three days off this weekend, and my goal is to have the engine ready to go back in the truck by the end of the day Sunday.
Oh, and I found a coolant bypass pipe.
I will post pictures when it arrives...Totally worth it. :thumbup:
If the engine is still out of the truck you shouldn't have to pull the heater blower unit out to flush it. You could get a funnel, plug up the outlet heater hose and fill the heater core with citric acid solution and let it sit for a few hours then dump it and reverse flush with a garden hose. Ideally it would be good if you had a way to circulate the solution through it like I did as it will do a better job (got an old fish pond pump somewhere?)
I meant in order to pressure test it after cleaning.
New oil pump finally showed up, it's surprisingly decent quality from what I can tell.
I cleaned up the cylinder bores a little with the hone, got the cylinder head clean, now to finish cleaning all of the valve train and start assembling the head.
There's one thing that I am unsure about...
Attachment 24284
There's an "oil control ring" in the rear main seal housing, is this the correct orientation, or does it need flipped around?
good question, I am getting my g54b out my 82 Tuesday or Thursday, when I get it on the stand I can pull the pan and post pics, I need to look at the bearings anyways.
So I'm extremely glad I opened up the oil pump and inspected it... I had to clean out a few metal shavings (most likely left over from the machining process), but all of the clearances are well within spec.
I packed the gears with plenty of grease (I would have used petroleum jelly, but I didn't have any on hand). I got the oil pump plug installed, I haven't fully torqued it to 50 ft-lbs yet, but it's decently tight. I coated the gasket with high-tack gasket sealant and installed the oil pump onto the block.
I started working on the cylinder head, but I might be looking at finding another head...there's quite a bit of oxidization from sitting out in the open air and I'm not sure yet if I can get the cam bearing surfaces back to a usable condition without going over the clearance limit.
But I did get everything else cleaned up and ready for re-assembly... The rocker shafts are clean (enough) inside, rockers, valve springs, seats, retainers, and keepers are all clean. I had to break out the angle grinder and wire wheel in order to get the build-up off of the valves, and I used a piece of rubber hose and a drill to "power-lap" the valves.
I got all of the sludge out of the oil pan, I still need to clean the outside and prep it for paint.
Use some fine cut abrasive metal polish and paper towel on the cam journal faces to buff them up. You won't be able to remove a measurable amount of surface metal doing this. Considering how badly I've seen journals ripped up, I doubt it will make the head unserviceable. I use Autosol for... everything. It's especially good for alloy and stainless steel. A tip for using it - add a very light shot of silicon spray. I find it keeps the polish pliable for longer and gives a finer finish.
I'll probably try some metal polishing compound once I get rid of all the oxidation.
In other news, I got more things...
The coolant bypass pipe I found on FB.
Attachment 24308
The hood prop rod clip and grommet I ordered from Engine Machine Services.
Attachment 24309
And a bunch of extra stuff that the guy from FB sent with the coolant bypass pipe...
Chrome alternator bracket, t-stat housing, and some hardware
Attachment 24310
Fancy hoses
Attachment 24311
Chrome dipstick
Attachment 24312
Chrome oil pressure sender, it's unfortunate that I'm not going to be able to use it since I'm running a mechanical oil pressure gauge...
Attachment 24313
A couple of fan spacers, and what I'm pretty sure are chrome headlight surrounds for a 1st gen... Also not going to be able to use.
Attachment 24314
Me and him talked for a bit about our projects after agreeing on a price for the coolant bypass pipe... After the box showed up he told me why he sent all of this when I only paid for the one thing. He wasn't going to be able to use these parts for his truck, and would rather see it being used by someone who would appreciate it. Since I was the only one to show interest in any of it, he decided that I should have it.
His name is Jacob Gardin, and he is one damn fine human being.
As for the parts I can't use, I'm not going to try and sell them. I'm going to pay it forward and send them to whoever wants them.
And yes, I'm excited for shiny chrome. :grin:
Nice haul :grin: A chromed bypass pipe? He was going to build something flashy. Can't wait to see it glued back together :thumbup:
I found the original source for all of this chrome...
A couple of years ago someone (can't remember his name) bought a half disassembled D50 from an estate auction, and it came with a ton of extra parts. The original owner had several of the parts chrome plated, including the oil pan, timing cover, valve cover, brackets, pulleys, skid plates, block plate, a box full of hardware, and this stuff.
Jacob bought this stuff from him about a year ago because he was going to use it when he swapped a 2.6L into his truck, but he ended up keeping the 2.0L and building it.
So now I get to build the flashy engine, and I'm going to stab it into a dirty, rusty, faded paint, beat to hell old truck. :lmao:
Very interesting! I dont like alot of chrome but I do like a good looking set of valve covers and a chrome intake manifold!
I'm not huge on the chrome either, but a little bit here and there goes a long way to making an engine look good...
I'm just going to clean the rust off of the rest of the pulleys and brackets, and paint them with a fresh coat of rattle can black. No need for everything to be chrome...
I am interested in the chrome headlight rings - they are for an aftermarket stull grille - I have one on Geronimo. PM me about them please.
Message sent.
This is the part of the program where I take a few steps backwards, because my methods are for impatient, hyper people.
After spending a few days researching, I'm going to go back and re-do a couple of things for my own peace of mind....
Yay. :P
anything new?
Not really, had to deal with a few things past couple weeks...
Had a pretty bad toothache, found one of my fillings had popped out and I thought that was the problem... After getting it fixed i still had the toothache. Turns out I needed a root canal on the tooth next to it.
That, along with some stuff at work, and I haven't been able to do much of anything with the truck.
Well that sucks. Dentists are pretty expensive so that will suck some mod money away from you. Oh well...
I don't pay for dental, because military, but then again you get what you pay for. Lol
In other news, I found a problem...
Attachment 24426
It's not the greatest picture, but that's a crack between the valve seats, and all of the work I've done to this head is all for naught.
I'm thinking I'll order a new one from Engine Machine Services, they have the best price I've found so far.
Oh damn. Kind of a sore point but this is the reason why I get my heads pressure tested. Not worth putting through a shop to get welded up?
With everything that I would want to have the shop fix, it's cheaper to just get a new head...
The good part is that I emailed Randy from EMS (Also known as Dad on starquestclub) and he's tossing a couple of goodies in the box with the head just for good measure.
I did ask about a military discount, he doesn't offer a discount on parts but he's hooking me up with some free stuff anyways. I hope I get a few stickers.
Exactly where mine cracked, and where I purchased my new one. I got the HD valve springs and stainless undercut stem valves while I was at it. Randy is a great guy, extremely knowledgeable about these engines, and has really good prices too. One thing to note, I had to find an old stock Melling cam on E-bay for my new head. My cam was a bit scored and I wanted to replace it. All of the cams I could find at the parts suppliers were .020" over on the bearings. The new heads are bored for a stock diameter cam.
I'm running all of the old valve train, it was dirty but didn't have any real signs of wear.
The box should be here tomorrow.
how is it coming along?
Slow still, dealing with a lot of stuff lately and haven't had much time to do anything with the truck, but I did get the new head.
I'm legitimately excited about this.
Attachment 24477
I took it out of the plastic just long enough to get a good look at everything, and then it went right back into the plastic bag.
Attachment 24478
And the extra goodies I got:
A new "free" oil pump gasket, because he has a pile of extras that he's never going to use... And I had to pull the oil pump back off so I needed a new gasket
A set of dowel pins for the gear cover and a set for the head, because I was missing one of each and they were cheap.
And finally all new studs for the head, which is nice because I totally destroyed a few studs removing them from the old head.
Attachment 24479
I was kinda hoping for a bit of swag, maybe some stickers/decals or a can coozie or something... But I'm still completely satisfied with everything.
I'm kinda wishing I had added the nuts and washers for the intake and exhaust to my order, but I can get suitable replacements at any local hardware store.
I'm going to try and make some progress on the truck this weekend, but I'm not making any promises.
its looking clean man! when I replace an oil pump I always pack gasoline between the gears for pre lubrication, thats just me. I learned it from a 75 year old man who has been building collecting and selling cars since he was my age. he has some rare stuff that I probably shouldn't mention for safety sake
sorry meant to say vasoline but my phone hates me. 'petroleum jelly' if you will
^ a good idea - exactly what you should do with a completely fresh rebuild.
I had already packed the oil pump with petroleum jelly, but I had to take the oil pump plug back out and replace the bolt.
I'm also planning on pressure priming the oil system before starting it up for the first time, give this engine the best chance at survival.
buy these instead of what they have at the hardware store. I used them on both the intake and exhaust side. I was pretty happy with them.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B005DUM884/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
The copper plated is nice, I will give you that.
But I might be putting the engine back together and back into the truck before those would show up, so I would just be replacing whatever is stripped or missing right now and replace everything later.
Warstryker, are you replacing the valves or getting the old ones refaced?
I'm just going to lap them and go, I'm going to wait to replace the valve train until I do another rebuild on this engine.
Got the head assembled
Attachment 24480
Tomorrow I'm going to work on installing the timing stuff, hopefully I'll have the engine fully assembled by the end of the day.
thats sweet. haven't done much this week, but next week, its go time!
I didn't get as much done as I really wanted to today, but I did make some progress...
I got the oil pump packed with vaseline and ready to install, used a block of wood and a hammer to "carefully" pound the new dowel pins into the block, pulled the engine off the stand and installed the rear main seal, and started cleaning up the bolts that I tossed into a box without labeling or separating... It's gonna be fun figuring out which bolt goes where. :shrug:
There's still plenty of cleaning left to do, but hopefully the weather cooperates and I'll be able to roll the truck out of the garage and pressure wash the engine bay this week. I might as well clean off the brackets and everything else while I've got the pressure washer hooked up and running...
thats why if I replace a part i always set the bolts in the hole and either set it on the floor or I will hang it up on a nail on the wall so that when I reinstall i know about what goes where
I'm not organized enough to remember to organize and separate bolts... I'm only organized when it's actually necessary, like with valve train, or the rotating assembly...
Speaking of rotating assembly, I decided that I wasn't happy with the amount of effort it took to rotate the crank, so I started pulling the rod caps to see what was binding...
Number 2 and number 4 connecting rod bearings had shiny spots where they had made contact with the rod journals, so I pulled all the pistons back out and I'm polishing the rod journals again. I used some cut down foam earplugs to block off the oil passages and keep the debris out, and they're easy to pull back out with a pick.
I found some really fine grit scotch-brite type pads, I think they're 800 grit... I used that to clean up the marks on the bearings, it worked better than I could have hoped. They literally look like brand new bearings again.
I went ahead and bought the high zinc engine break-in oil, as well as a bottle of Liqui-Moly Cera-Tec (added insurance). I also bought a couple of oil filters and 5 gallons of fresh gas, I'm ready to finish this damn thing.