So the heat shield is giving me fits. I'm trying really hard not to break any bolts. Gonna let the pb blaster chill for the evening.
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So the heat shield is giving me fits. I'm trying really hard not to break any bolts. Gonna let the pb blaster chill for the evening.
Attachment 21094
Somehow this evening murphys law didnt apply itself to my project. All the bolts came loose and everything went together smoothly. O2 sensor is installed.
https://youtu.be/smHHpsm--1E
Here is the initial run. It's very rich at idle and cruising thru 3rd. 4th isn't bad just cruising but when u get on it then it starts leaning out then 5th is about the same unless I'm into the secondary.
Attachment 21095
I was hoping just the sticker would make it run better.
Oh you gonna get it now bro :lmao:Adjust the air/fuel mixture screw to tame the rich idle (will be a piece of cake once you have the O2 sensor and a gauge installed). You really need to give your engine bay a big clean. Non caustic oven cleaner - try it. Cheap to buy, easy to get, works awesome and one can is usually enough for one lap of an engine bay.Quote:
Originally Posted by 87junker
Do u think I went too big on the primary idle jet? It had a 60 originally and I put a 70. I've got a 65 to try too.
Went to the 65 and its around 12.2 now. It still has some funny flat spots where it leans out under throttle in 4th and 5th gear.
The more I run it the leaner it got to where it would hardly run. Went back to the 70.
Primary idle has to be a touch rich to keep up with demand when you go in on-throttle.
I wonder if the power valve could have went bad already? If I just shift normal it shows lean until I give it some more gas then u can hear the tone change and drops down around 13.8.
Searched all over for a vacuum leak nothing found.
I took a spare power valve (the part that threads into the bottom of the bowl) gutted it and soldered it shut. I found that it leaned it out all over the place, not just where I thought it should. Mine runs pretty well right now, I put a ton of miles on it, but I've experimented a bit with modifying the emulsion tubes. I may take a little bit off of the length of the power valve spring which should cause it to engage later, or possibly file down the top of the pin on the thread in valve.
I have opened up exhaust and valves with undercut stems, so I believe I flow a bit better than stock. I was never able to get enough air into it at idle. Drilling a 1mm hole in the primary barrel throttle plate, opposite of the transition ports, made a world of difference for me. I also removed the idle air correction bushing and drilled and tapped it to accept the main fuel jets, so that I have better control over the idle circuit. I think the 2.6 is just a wee bit too big for the stock idle circuit.
Now that you have a wideband, you will have many sleepless nights :lmao:
Sounds like tutorial material to me...Quote:
Originally Posted by Giovanni89
Maybe when I get it right :lmao:I've gone back and forth on a ton of things. It's certainly streetable tho, I commute 100 miles a day with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by geezer101
Geezer commutes uphill in both directions too! :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Giovanni89
I use to commute to San Francisco everyday as well. Just a couple miles under 100 a day. Truck was used for 10 years doing that drive and never failed.
Hopefully I'll get it to that point eventually. I hope to have new tires by this weekend. Attachment 21138
New tires all around now.
Attachment 21139
Looking good mate. What tyres did you go for?
Looks like it means business :thumbup:
Sweet!
Nexen roadian mt 235/75/15.Quote:
Originally Posted by tortron
Attachment 21161
So I tore back into my weber. Power valve diaphragm is bad again and excuse my crude drawing of all the jets as of now. Anyone have any suggestions on where to start on jetting for a 2.6l?
From what I'm finding the jet sizes are for a factory DGAV minus the primary idle jet I've changed.
Attachment 21162
Just ordered an new power valve diaphragm and some main jets and air collectors. Any one any good with figuring out emulsion tubes? Or can tell me the characteristics of what certain sizes do to the operation of the carb?
Get a spare emulsion tube before you start meddling. I did a lot of research on them, and here are the big things that I took away. Holes at the top will lean lower in the rpm range. Holes at the bottom will lean higher in the rpm range. Holes above the fuel bowl level will delay the activation of the main jet because the air can flow through those holes and into the venturi without emulsifying any fuel. Too many holes at the top will lean out the high rpm as well. Holes that are below the fuel bowl level will cause the main circuit to activate earlier and enrich the mixture.
The diameter of the emulsion tube and steps/taper also plays a part in how it acts. Generally speaking, the larger the diameter of the emulsion tube, the less fuel reserve in the emulsion tube well and leaner it will be.
My jetting is far different from anything I have come across, but I feel it runs fairly well. It starts at 100 degrees, or 13 below. Doesn't diesel any more when I shut it off. I've towed up to 3000lbs, cruise routinely at 75 on the highway without having my foot buried in the throttle, and return an average of 22mpg mixed driving with the automatic.
I don't have it written down, but I believe what I am running (although i have a opened up exhaust and undercut valve stems) is a 130 main, 140 or 150 main air corrector. a 60 or 65 idle, and a 170 idle air corrector (I modified my carb to accept main jets as idle air corrector jets) but 170 is the stock size. I also have a 1mm hole drilled in my throttle plate opposite of the transition ports. I could never get the idle right until allowing more air in with the hole in the throttle plate. Otherwise I would have to have the idle speed screw in too far, and it would always diesel.
I think from here I need to reduce my idle air jet to get it to richen up just a tad at highway light throttle cruise, but this will mean enlarging the hole in the throttle plate to get enough air at idle. I also need to lean it out at low rpm heavy throttle which I will most likely try to accomplish with a few extra small holes in my emulsion tube. I am running a stock f50 at the moment.
If you want to know anything about carbies - ask Giovanni. I'm going home... :shakehead:
I mean, I thought I was a lunatic for jamming my Mikuni Solex under a drill press and drill aligning all of the vacuum galleries and gaskets. And I've managed to get my weirdo 34DATA carb throttle linkages to behave like the stock carb but full props to you sir for tackling emulsion tube mods and to even understand how they fully work.
I appreciate the feed back I'm hoping the power valve diaphragm will fix some of my issues. I may have went the wrong way with my jet selections. But I did get the coolant hole drilled and tapped.
Attachment 21164
A lot of what I learned was from trolling the forums and posts from folks like you geezer. I don't know everything, I'm just not afraid to start cutting things up :lmao:
Quote:
Originally Posted by geezer101
http://www.performanceoriented.com/p...ance-tuning-2/
Scroll down on this page for a lot of good info on emulsion tubes. I believe this was written for weber side drafts, but the theory should be the same. Definitely do not tackle this without a wideband O2. Small changes can have subtle or drastic effects. You can create a lean hole in your fuel delivery curve that if left unchecked could do damage.
This is a photo of my idle air jet setup. Not shown is that you have to grind some relief in the top cover of the carb so that it will fit over the head of the jet.
A word of caution, bolt the carb down to a drill press or milling machine, and use a depth stop. You are intersecting the idle fuel jet hole. When you break through the cross hole it will lift up the carb and if not bolted down could cause some carnage. You are kissing the top of the idle fuel jet seat, so carnage could mean that you idle fuel jet will not seal rendering the carb body useless unless you can re spot the seat. Use a bottoming tap, and watch from the idle jet hole in the side of the carb body. You don't want the tap to to chew up the idle jet seat, which it will do if you go too deep.
Attachment 21165
Agreed on having an O2 sensor and gauge installed. Helps even with minor stuff like setting the base A/F mixture. You ever tried polishing the throats and cutting back overhangs and ledges in the carb body?
Shew that's a lot of info to soak up. But definitely explains effect of the emulsion tubes.
Attachment 21166
Dang murphys law got me this evening too.
Dang, seen that before :shakehead: A drill and screw extractor might get it out, or drilling it out enough to break out the last fragments of the bolt and making a pass through it with a thread tap. Fingers crossed this doesn't turn into a major headache.
I had the same thing happen. If you have enough thread for half a turn of a nut, welding the inside of the nut to the thread worked for me. I also saturated the threads with break free before welding. worst part for me was the PO stripped the threads on manifold on the other side and used a bent head bolt tapped up through the bottom to "fix it". That was an unpleasant surprise. I had to tap and helicoil new threads in. good luck with your repair, you've been doing a great job on it so far-Keep it up!
Forget the extractor. It will just snap out if that stud is any tighter than finger tight.
Either put a nut over the reminants, and weld them together and unscrew. Or centre punch and drill out with a sharp bit until the hole is just equal to the threads, then pick them out with a pick.
If you do snap an extractor off, grind it flat, punch it, and drill out with a new cobalt drill bit and retap
Extractor was a no go. Started cranking on it and heard the bad tink sound. It didnt break off but the extractor is junk now. So now its drilled thru and waiting till I buy a tap.
Attachment 21170
Could go back to sleep this morning so I went out and threaded the hole and put everything back together. Still waiting on carb parts to get back to my original project.
Attachment 21183
Attachment 21191
Carb parts finally made it in.
Got everything installed changed some jets helped a little but still to lean while cruising in 4th and 5th and when u get on it to speed up it leans out from 2500 rpm and up til I let out when it gets around 17.0 on my afr gauge.
Attachment 21192
Cooler thermostat didnt help either. Still getting hot after about 20 mins. It will cool down once u get moving but as soon as u slow down it will start climbing back up.
Cooling down when moving tells us that either the radiator or fan isn't up to scratch.
I don't recall if you replaced the rad on this, but if not it could probably do with being taken to a shop for rodding out to clear the tubes.
You will probably find that 30 percent of the tubes are gummed up.
Also check that your fan is still in one piece, i.e. it hasn't lost any of its blades, and that the clutch is activating. I.e is it turning at a good speed at idle when the truck has warmed up? If not you may need a new fan clutch, or swap to an electric unit
I just fisished flushing the radiator. It didnt look too bad and not a lot of junk came out but the ac condenser was packed with dust and bugs. So it got sprayed out really good. In the process of putting it back now.Quote:
Originally Posted by tortron
It should cool down when you're driving. It's getting air forced through the radiator by it's own forward movement. It's when you're stuck in traffic that it'll want to heat up. If you get rid of the mechanically driven radiator fan and go electric it will work when you need it, takes a load off the water pump bearings and improves throttle response. Added bonus is freeing up some engine bay room. I used a batch of citric acid powder to flush out a couple of heater cores and radiators, and it did a decent job of breaking up sediment in them. Some guys run it in the engine but I'm not game enough to as it will attack alloy. My intake manifold on my G63B had corroded out and when I cut the cooling chamber cover out from the base of the plenum, chunks of rust fell out of it (presumably came from the inside of the block and got lodged in there)
See how it goes. The stuff that gets stuck in the tubes wont come out from a flush. But if the condenser was packed full it would have a noticeable effectQuote:
Originally Posted by 87junker
https://youtu.be/qqRXScQMm6A
It still has a few lean spots but does better at maintaining speed in 4th and 5th.
https://youtu.be/lQfRCI27DY0
Radiator seems to have good flow thru it. And it it ran cooler after cleaning. But I'll have to see how it does on a warm day again it had cooled down quite a bit from earlier today.
Attachment 21203
A little before and after.
Looking good! Even with a cooler thermostat and a new radiator, water pump, and fan clutch, mine was getting warm at low speed too. Where is your idle at? If I have my park/neutral idle set to 900rpm it drops to about 6-700 in gear. At that speed it just wont move enough air with the stock fan. I tried upping my idle a bit but it really slammed into gear and wanted to pull hard at idle. I went the larger rigid mounted mechanical fan route because I'm cheap, but I'm willing to bet that a good electric fan will solve your problem. I actually tried some little electric fans I had first, they worked well at idle but weren't letting enough air through at high speed. If you go electric, you'll want to upgrade the alternator if you have the 40ish amp unit.
Yesterday day it did good it was 85-90 degrees. Today and tomorrow should tell me how it's doing but I'm afraid the 180 thermostat is gonna be too cold for winter.
It probably will be. With my rigid mounted fan I had to stuff some cardboard in front of the radiator last winter, although we were getting into the double negative digits.
Overheating is the system not being able to shed enough BTU's of heat, and a cooler thermostat does not affect the efficiency of the system, just the cut in point. It may be enough to keep it running cooler under current conditions (although my experience is it just takes a few more minutes to start getting hot), but once you up the load on the engine or raise the ambient temperature the needle will start to climb again.
The hotter the radiator is, the more efficient it actually gets at transferring heat, because the transfer of heat from the radiator to the surrounding air is relative to the square of the difference of temperatures. However if you raise the ambient temp of the surrounding air the system loses efficiency, and that cooler thermostat that works at 90deg might not work at 95deg
The real fix will most likely be air flow, although water flow is a possibility too. One thing to check is to make sure your fan belt is nice and snug. A slipping belt at low speed will cause your fan and water pump to turn more slowly and cause overheating.
get a 192 degree reverse flow thermostat - it gives higher flow with the higher temp for winter. The 2.6 motors run best with the 192 / 195 stats. The 180 stats were stock on the 79 - 80 2.6 motors - I changed Geronimo's after the first winter to get heat, and never went back to a 180.
Pennyman, what is a reverse flow thermostat? Every thermostat I've put in my truck does a strange thing. Starting from dead cold, the coolant will reach 210-220 degrees before the thermostat opens and it drops down to 190-195. Not to hi-jack, but does anyone know what causes this?
Is it because there's cold coolant above the thermostat acting like a thermal heat sink on the thermostat itself? The coolant below it is reaching operating temperature which the gauge sender is reading correctly. A theory...
The thermostat opening point is the point where it starts opening. Add another 10degrees and it will be fully open. So a 190 might not be fully open till 200 or so
Believe I'm going back to the 192 it is staying cooler now and isn't warming up at all in the morning and this evening driving around after work it still wasn't reading hot enough.
And I'm glad I have a spare fuel pump ready. The setup I have now pumps really hard in the morning when it's cool and in the evening it's not pumping near enough. It night and day difference from morning to evening.
a reverse flow thermostat refers to the valve that opens and closes - the valve opens in reverse of the standard stat in the direction of flow instead of against it, allowing for unrestricted flow when open.
That makes sense, because if the truck has been sitting for long enough that the temp is near the bottom of the gauge, it will get up to operating and stay there without the temp spike. Enough heat surrounding the thermostat that it does it's normal thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by geezer101
Pennyman, do you have a link to one of these reverse flow thermostats? Next time I replace mine I think i'll go that route.
And Junker, A new fuel pump might have an effect on your lean spots. The Weber's are pretty sensitive to fuel pressure and adequate flow. Maybe the pump is getting weak on you once you have some under hood heat on the highway?
Here is a link - search for a better price:https://www.ebay.com/itm/Stant-45869...AAAOSwe25bIqXr
I got the same one for rock auto for 5 bucks last year. Guess I have been running a reverse flow all along :grin:
What size fuel line do y'all recomend for installing one of the carbole pumps back by the fuel tank? I thought I read where someone said 3/8. Trying to figure out which size to keep down on pressure loss.
3/8ths is too big for that pump - use 5/16ths.
I may need to tackle it in the morning went on a quick run this evening and could barely get over 2 grand before it would lean out.
the pump is too small for that 3/8th line - too much pressure drop. You would need a pump with 2 - 3 times the GPH of that pump to keep the line full...
Can I just use the factory fuel line along the frame rail? It is everyone running all new hose from tank to the carb?
I went ahead and just ran new line all the way. BUT.... While I was looking it over for leaks u can literally see the gas fumes coming from the pump.
I wonder if the mr gasket one is any better.
Disregard it must have been my imagination.Quote:
Originally Posted by 87junker
https://youtu.be/73cwgqGwUc4
Ok so I may have got a little ahead of my self earlier. Runs better now. Here's a video of it cruising. It does much better at higher rpms. Still seems like some is going on between cruising and getting on it. It leans out until the accelerator pump can catch up.
It's the same pump. Right down to the part number cast onto the side of the pump body.Quote:
Originally Posted by 87junker
Might be timing as well. If you haven't gone through altering the distributor advance curve it might feel a bit funky going through the transition of the secondary opening. I haven't trusted factory timing specs since I started experimenting with tuning.
Went to drive it to the farm today and had to turn around. Ran like crap. Temp gauge never moved after 20 minutes of driving radiator and hoses were barely warm. Kept reading really lean. QUESTION how rich does a motor have to be to give a false lean reading.
I imagine rich enough that you would see a puff of black smoke coming out of the tailpipe. But that's just a guess. It can't hurt to double check your ignition. Taking apart the distributor and lubing up the fly weights might not be a bad idea. Mine were getting sticky and causing all kinds of weird driveability issues. If your weights are stuck advanced when you set the timing, you'll actually be running way retarded. Disconnecting the the vacuum advance and watching your timing light as you rev the engine up slowly should give you an idea of whats going on. Any jerky, or lack of movement of the timing is reason to inspect. If it does not return to the same base timing, also inspect.
I know it's not the recommended setup, but I run a Carter P4070 fuel pump that I have mounted above the drivers wheel, where the emissions control was. It's been in service over 55k miles with no problems. I put it into a Holley regulator set to 3 psi. One of the things I like about this setup, is that the line from the tank up to the engine bay is all under vacuum, not pressure. Lines under vacuum spew much less gas if they fail. It also keeps the pump and wiring out of the road salt
Is there a total timing setting any one is using? Sounds like I'm having timing/vacuum issues. I'll get into the distributor to see if its sticking but now that u say that it may be my problem u can feel when it kicks in. Kind of like a powerband kicks in on a dirtbike.
Could be the vac advance is toast. I haven't been able to find a used distributor with a good vac advance. I think when I get around to installing the 34 DATA, I might use a 4G64 distributor and eliminate vacuum from the equation...
My over cooling issue was easy to fix. Attachment 21232
new vacuum advance units are only 20 or 30 bucks, and are easy to change out. Looks like a fail safe thermostat. Must have gotten warm enough to jam it open.
I'm remembering back now, didn't you replace the entire distributor? Doesn't mean it's working properly tho.
Yes I'm on distributor #2 first one the icm died after 100 miles. I've got a little bit of warranty left on it. And it was a fail safe. First one I've had actually stuck open.Quote:
Originally Posted by Giovanni89
I'm gonna try and get into the distributor and determine if its sticking first and trying tweaking the timing.
It's been running pretty good the last couple days "knock on wood" if I just drive it and not baby the throttle it does ok. It only leans out at a constant speed.
Went up to a 145 main jet on the primary and a 150 on the secondary and it ran better not too bad lean and maintained speed better.
And went back down to a 60 primary idle jet.
So far so good it runs much better. I'm hoping one I get the timing dialed in I'll be done with getting it to run better and I can go back modifying things on it. It still wants to diesel when I shut it off. Once I get that cleared up I'm gonna work on building some bumpers front and rear.
big beefy winch mount bumpers? :grin: I like where you're taking this truck
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to keep the spacer/adapter plates for a weber from getting loose I have developed a vacuum leak either between the bottom or middle or hell the bottom of the carb. But its making a good squealing sound and the starting fluid test makes it rev right up.
Any i made my own gaskets out of supposedly fuel resistant gasket material. They look saturated.
Try using stainless steel studs/bolts. They have a sharper thread cut. Probably need a little loctite on the threads too.
I used loctite. I made my gaskets for the carb spacer out of, the cardboard box that my intake manifold gasket came in... I was commuting 200 miles a day while in the process of moving and developed a vacuum leak on the adapter. The only card stock I had was that box, and it had a shiny printed surface on one side. It's been in there over 50k miles now. A healthy dose of permatex indian head gasket shellac on the gasket and mating surface, and some loctite on the fasteners worked for me. I took my adapter off and discovered that over torquing the fasteners had warped the adapter plate. I sanded it on a flat surface plate while I had it apart. Tractor supply usually has a cellulose paper gasket material in a roll in the tractor parts area. Cellulose paper is what you want. The rubberized fuel safe gasket material I haven't had good luck with.
Just a little update. Did u guys know that if u don't scrape the old gasket off the bottom of the carb u will get a vacuum leak in that exact spot. ** sarcasm** So yeah found my vacuum leak so now I'm back up and running with out an awesome reed valve sound.
You'll probably be playing with the jet sizing again. I'm curious if it pulls harder on the highway now?
Took it to the farm and it did good still need to lean it back out on idle. But other than that its probably running good enough for me. The 4x4 works really good.
Found a bumper that I'm gonna try and transplant on the MM.
Attachment 21291
Attachment 21294
Woah that is a serious piece of metal. Anyone stupid enough to brake check you with that thing bolted up is in for a bad day.
I can't wait to get it on. I'm gonna add a stinger and shackle mounts to it.
Nice, skid plate too?
Nice bumper for sure. Nothing like showing that one in a rear view mirror. lol
Attachment 21298
too bad that hangs down so low - negates the lift on the truck...
Very true, Almost looks like a locomotive snow thrower like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyman1
I need to come up with some sort of skid plates in the front and for underneath. All the important stuff is vulnerable.Quote:
Originally Posted by tortron
Well I'm gonna have to build some brackets to make it fit the frame rails. It's about 5 inches wider than an s-10.
Attachment 21323