Steering wheel adjustment after alignment

My steering wheel is a little off-center when going straight. If I dont pull it slightly to the left (about 10 degrees), the truck will vear to the right. I went and got an alignment hoping it would fix the issue, but it didn't. The truck still wants to go to the right, and I still have to pull on the wheel to keep it straight.

Here's the alignment report-

Attachment 21835

From what I can tell, the camber and caster didn't change at all, and the toe only changed to the lowest end of the acceptable range.
The guy at Mavis told me that there's not much adjustment they could do in a vehicle this old (and that there's no caster adjustment possible period), unless I rebuilt something or other.
To be honest, I'm not really that surprised that the adjustment is limited, being how old the truck is (it's an '87 btw, not '86 like the report says), but I feel that he should've told me that BEFORE they did the work, not after.... but whatever.

So I have a few questions:

1. Is it true that caster cannot be adjusted on this truck?
2. Does it seem reasonable that camber was not possible to adjust on the left front wheel? Keep in mind that this truck did have a front end collision that was strong enough to destroy the tire...
3. Is the toe adjustment acceptable?
4. Should I even bother going back there and asking them to do better?

Assuming that the alignment is as good as it's going to get, and if that's case I think I'd be ok with it since the pull to the side is not that terrible, and I know it's an old truck..., I'd like to adjust the position of the steering wheel so at least it is trued when going straight.
To do this I plan to take of the wheel off (following the instructions on other threads here on the forum, thank you for that) and slightly rotating it on the splines so that when going down the road it looks straight, after compensating for the right pull.
When I do this, I'd like to lubricate the wheel so that this annoying squeaking noise that happens when I turn it goes away.

Second set of questions (sorry):

1. Where exactly should I be applying the lubricant? Between which two parts?
2. What is the best product to use? From some reading about this I think white grease is the way to go, but not really sure. What do you think?

Thanks everyone, I appreciate your advice.

I'm not versed in alignment repairs, so I can't advise on the report's numbers or the adjust-ability of alignment parameters, but I find Mavis's claim that there's not much they can do because of the truck's age to be suspect. I'd take it to a shop that specializes in alignment rather than tires or other services. I had suspension damage that took two shops to get it fixed. To their credit, the first shop admitted there was a problem, but couldn't determine the precise cause. They referred me to the second shop which found and fixed a bent steering knuckle. You probably don't have that serious a problem. Only the need of a specialty shop.

Before you do anything further, however, check the simple stuff first. Are the tires on the left and right sides the same brand, size and have even wear? Are the tire pressures correct? Are the brakes dragging more on one side than the other? Any significant disparity in tire or brake conditions, either front or rear, could cause it to pull or drift in a particular direction.

With these trucks you can't adjust caster much at all - any attempt in doing so will destroy the pivot shaft bushes in the upper control arm. The camber is adjusted by shims between the pivot shaft and frame rail. No matter how badly fubar'd the frame could be, they can always slot a few more camber shims in there to alter the angle unless it has been bent inwards and radically increased the camber angle (not the case going by the alignment test). How are all the bushes and joints? And there is always a possibility there is something bent under there and they haven't been able to precisely spot it...

It looks like all they did was set the toe. The reason it's pulling to the right is positive camber on the left and negative on the right. The left wheel is leaning outwards at the top. Your wheels are always trying to push to a 0 camber situation. This means the left wheel is pushing to the right.
Your right wheel however has negative camber. It is leaning in at the top. It wants to right itself as well by also pushing to the right. Two wheels pushing to the right means a right pull. I don't have a 4wd, but I'm pretty sure they can shim the control arms the same as the 2wd.
That should be correctable with a control arm shim and a reset of the toe.

Is it reasonable to go back there and ask them to fix the camber? Is there any legitimate reason why this might not be possible? (like some damaged/bent parts?)

I'm not positive with how the 4wd is setup, but all they should need to do is loosen the upper control arm pivot shaft to frame bolts. Adding a shim should create negative camber (the pivot shaft is usually set inside the frame mount). Then torque the pivot shaft bolts back down and recheck. Toe should always be the last thing you set, because as soon as you move something else the toe changes.
Caster should be checked. On my Falcon, you set caster by having differing amounts of shims on the front and rear bolt of the control arm shaft. This moves the upper ball joint forward or backward changing the caster and camber simultaneously. More shims on the rear bolt moves the upper balljoint forward reducing caster. I no longer have the factory service manual for my falcon or ram50 as they were destroyed in a fire, but I remember my Falcon manual having a chart showing the change in caster/camber for a given size shim in a given location.
When I aligned my Falcon at home, I set the camber roughly, then set the caster. Once the caster was locked in I shimmed evenly on both pivot shaft bolts to bring the camber in. Once both sides were set with camber I verified the caster was still in and set the toe. You can give a bit more caster on the passenger side wheel to fight the tendency of the road crown to pull you towards the shoulder.
Personally, I would bring it back and ask them why they didn't adjust the camber when it was our of spec on the report. Cars have been accurately aligned far longer than there have been computers or laser alignment machines. I aligned my falcon at home with homemade tools and put 20k miles on it afterwards with no irregular or uneven tire wear. The shim style setup takes a bit longer than the newer eccentric bolt setups, but it is absolutely possible to adjust everything.
Forgot to add, if there was a reason they couldn't adjust it, i.e. worn out or bent parts, then they should inform you. Worn out control arm bushings, pivot shaft bushings, or strut rod bushings are the main culprits.

Here's the alignment chart to which Giovanni89 referred. It's for 4wd models and from the 1988 Ram 50 shop manual. Values for '87 models might be different, but this should get your shop rolling in the right direction if they don't have this already. The manual mentions two cautions: "1. The difference in shim thickness between the front and rear must be 4mm (.16") or less. 2. Do not use 4 or more shims in one location."

Attachment 21836

caster can be adjusted with the upper control arm bushings, but not much. Never use the strut rods to adjust caster - it will bind the lcas if you do as previously stated.

Went back in, and this is what they guy told me:

- Caster cannot be adjusted in this truck, period
- Camber cannot be adjusted unless they installed some kind of kit ($35 + 1 hr labor on each side)
- The toe adjustment they did was as good as it was going to get because I have bad strut and tie rods, but they could fix that for about $199 per side

At this point I dont think it's even worth fighting them on this because they either don't know how to do it, or dont want to. And he's not giving much room to argue since he says the problem is the bad strut and tie rods, so the only way to make it better is to spend a bunch of money there, which I won't do.
I'll probably take it elsewhere at some point and get it done right, lesson learned. Maybe I'll write to the corporate office and see if I can get a refund (Ha, right!)

By the way, I though these trucks have shocks, not struts. Maybe I'm wrong, but otherwise this guy really id full of sh*t!

he is referring to strut rod bushings, not struts - they are the rods from the LCAs to the front of the frame. Your idler arm is most likely bad, and the tie rods may be as well. Those together would make it impossible to align if bad. Any truck this old needs all new front end parts to eliminate any slop before alignment. control arm bushings are probably shot as well. Go here for the 4wd bushings: http://adventuredrivendesign.com/oca...berian+Bushing

I would send that chart with an e-mail to corporate and ask for a full refund. Shim alignment was the standard for a looooong time... And if not give them an appropriate review on google.
My 68 f250 is aligned by bending the control arms. Kingpins in an I beam independent suspension. That's gonna be fun when I get it on the road

The 4wd trucks don't have strut rods. Both upper and lower CAs are triangular with two mount points at the frame end. A stabilizer bar attaches to the LCA. Maybe the Mavis guy mistook that for a strut rod.

Take it to an alignment shop. Have them thoroughly inspect the front end and give you an assessment. With only 21K on the truck, wear from use seems unlikely, but at 31 years, the rubber bushings could be weathered. Find a good shop and have them tell you if things are weathered or damaged and what they think should be replaced. If you aren't sure of where to go, but know someone who restores vehicles, ask them where they sub their alignment repairs.
Good luck

Thank you all, this is great information. I'm grateful for all the useful and practical advice for this specific application, but also for the education in general. I'm learning a lot about the workings of these trucks, and automotive engineering in general I guess, and I'm really enjoying it. I know you guys must be rolling your eyes at how basic my questions/issues are, but hey, we all have to start somewhere, right? Thank you for humoring me and not making me feel like a dumbass.

I guess the Mavis guy is right in some ways (it's an old machine that needs some work), and what I'm hearing from you guys is helping me understand that. But at the same time, I feel that maybe he doesn't know exactly what to do to make this right, but he's not being upfront about that. That's ok, I'm moving on (I might still try to get a refund, but that's beside the point...)

Anyway, I'll do some reading and familiarize myself with this area of the machine, and then take it to specialized shop and have them work on what needs attention.

In the meantime, is it ok to true the steering wheel and apply some white grease in between the parts to get rid of the squeaky noises when I turn it?

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Originally Posted by MrPaco

In the meantime, is it ok to true the steering wheel and apply some white grease in between the parts to get rid of the squeaky noises when I turn it?

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I wouldn't worry about the steering wheel right now. As Giovanni89 described, getting the camber and caster set will require another toe-in adjustment which can affect the steering wheel. Besides, a good alignment shop will include truing the steering wheel as part of their work. Mention the squeak to them and they may include it or advise you how you can fix it yourself.

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Originally Posted by FMS88

I wouldn't worry about the steering wheel right now. As Giovanni89 described, getting the camber and caster set will require another toe-in adjustment which can affect the steering wheel. Besides, a good alignment shop will include truing the steering wheel as part of their work. Mention the squeak to them and they may include it or advise you how you can fix it yourself.

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Ok, 10-4 on that. I'll get the whole front end thing straightened out first (pun intended).

So here's another dumb question. I've only been living in the area for about a year, so I'm still learning my way around, and I don't know a lot of good places. I've looking around for a good alignment shop near me, but most of what comes up on a search is the usual chains, probably because of their donations to the google foundation... Anyway, this place seems like it might be something like what you're suggesting, looks like a small shop and the name has 'frame & axle' right in it, so I'm thinking this might be a shop that specializes on this stuff. Just form the looks of it, would you say that this is the kind of place I should be looking at? (I know you can't really tell from a website, but does it look like it MIGHT be legit?)
https://www.derhamframe.com/

You could hold off on alignment too. The big killer of tires is toe. If the pull isn't too bad, you could live with it. If you do go to another shop, tell them you have a front end that requires shims and that you had a less than satisfactory experience elsewhere. Ask them if they can check all the bushings/pivots so that you can replace what is necessary, and if they will do a proper alignment with shims to get your caster, camber, and toe in spec. If they say anything but yes, look for a different shop.
Places with hot rods and muscle cars sitting in the lot are usually a good place to start. Most older cars are aligned with shims. Fun fact, the old jaguar e-types (independent rear) used the rear axle shaft as an upper control arm. The camber on the rear wheel was set by disconnecting the axle and shimming it

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Originally Posted by Giovanni89

You could hold off on alignment too. The big killer of tires is toe. If the pull isn't too bad, you could live with it. If you do go to another shop, tell them you have a front end that requires shims and that you had a less than satisfactory experience elsewhere. Ask them if they can check all the bushings/pivots so that you can replace what is necessary, and if they will do a proper alignment with shims to get your caster, camber, and toe in spec. If they say anything but yes, look for a different shop.
Places with hot rods and muscle cars sitting in the lot are usually a good place to start. Most older cars are aligned with shims. Fun fact, the old jaguar e-types (independent rear) used the rear axle shaft as an upper control arm. The camber on the rear wheel was set by disconnecting the axle and shimming it

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I agree completely. You could also call them, tell them you have a 1968 AMC Javelin that needs new trunnions. If they say they can do it, that's definitely the shop you want. (AMC - what weird cars. Remember the Pacer? Like driving in the Bubbleator at the 1962 Seattle World's fair.)

l’m joking about the AMC and trunnions but their response to such a question would be quite revealing.

I like my truck am an 89. While I have played with plenty of old cars, not as many as some of the more seasoned members :grin: I haven't actually seen trunions. I think MG used them as well?

Good tip - a Ma and Pa family owned and operated business is usually the hot tip. Especially if they've been around for as long as that one claims to have been. Franchises and third hand shops are good at taking money for nothing but they sometimes get it right.

FWIW, the regional manager of Mavis, the shop who did the incomplete alignment, agreed that they could've told me that the were not set up properly work on this truck BEFORE they did the work. They are refunding the full cost of it, which is nice.

Excellent outcome! Glad to see they were decent about it and did the right thing.

That's good of them. Nothing kills business faster than rolling on a customer... Just gotta find a shop that can do the job right. If a shop can do a front end on an old school Stang they can handle your truck.

Excellent. Now you can put those funds towards a proper alignment! I should do a write up on my homemade alignment equipment. I've had very good results doing my own

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Originally Posted by geezer101

That's good of them. Nothing kills business faster than rolling on a customer...

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Agreed. Because of the way they handled this I will consider going back there in the future if I need something else, that they can actually handle.
I had a similar experience with TireRack.com recently, because of slight inconvenience that wasn't even their fault, they sent me a $100 certificate to use in their store (I used it to get the Hella H4 conversion headlights, which are great upgrade over the sealed beams!). I will certainly keep giving them my business.

Take the truck to a body shop that does frame work. This is not rocket science, the truck needs a complete front end inspection and more than likely a frame pull. Once they get it measured up, they will be able to tell you exactly what you are looking at cost- wise. If I had purchased this truck, that is what would have already been done.