starting issue 85' 2.0L

So I recently bought an 1985 Ram 50. it has spent its entire life as a Joshua Tree National parks vehicle. I bought it from a guy that got it at auction. he put in new: battery, starter, mikuni carb, cap, wires, and plugs. it ran ok when I got it. It defiantly has some carb tuning issues but mainly from a clogged accel pump. I pulled he carb off and cleaned everything out. I put everything back together cranked it over once and then nothing but clicks from the starter. so I started troubleshooting. had been driving it off and on for a few weeks with no problems.

checked voltages
jumped the solenoid, plunges out wont spin

took starter out and bench checked, good
new starter bench check good, installed, didn't fix the problem

took both starters hooked up the solenoid wires used jumper cables off the battery hooked the to the starter, turned the key WORKS!
Remade all the chassis and battery grounds still didn’t fix it, plunges out wont spin. Although it didn’t turn over once but only that one time.

Replaced coil and factory ballast resistor still doesn’t work
ballast resistor gets really hot like melting the boot hot

so that’s where I stopped. I’m lost I’ve tried just about anything you can come up with. The only thing is that when I use a jumper wire on the solenoid it does arc a little bit on the terminal.

Im leaning towards a possible short but I have no idea where to start looking.

Any input is greatly appreciated. I have to get this thing running and SMOGed soon.

...So I recently bought an 1985 Ram 50. it has spent its entire life as a Joshua Tree National parks vehicle. I bought it from a guy that got it at auction. he put in new: battery, starter, mikuni carb, cap, wires, and plugs. it ran ok when I got it. It defiantly has some carb tuning issues but mainly from a clogged accel pump. I pulled he carb off and cleaned everything out. I put everything back together cranked it over once and then nothing but clicks from the starter. so I started troubleshooting. had been driving it off and on for a few weeks with no problems.

checked voltages
jumped the solenoid, plunges out wont spin

took starter out and bench checked, good
new starter bench check good, installed, didn't fix the problem

took both starters hooked up the solenoid wires used jumper cables off the battery hooked the to the starter, turned the key WORKS!
Remade all the chassis and battery grounds still didn’t fix it, plunges out wont spin. Although it didn’t turn over once but only that one time.

Replaced coil and factory ballast resistor still doesn’t work
ballast resistor gets really hot like melting the boot hot

so that’s where I stopped. I’m lost I’ve tried just about anything you can come up with. The only thing is that when I use a jumper wire on the solenoid it does arc a little bit on the terminal.

Im leaning towards a possible short but I have no idea where to start looking.

Any input is greatly appreciated. I have to get this thing running and SMOGed soon.

Hi and welcome to mightyram. Sorry but your choice with text made your entire post invisible. So here is where I'd start. Check power into and out of the bypass relay so you know it's swapping circuits from the ignition when you hit the key. Check the main positive lead to the starter motor and the battery terminals - look for corrosion/hot spots where the insulation looks sketchy etc. It might not be allowing enough cranking current to pass through it. If you can borrow a main positive lead and test it out it might throw you some bread crumbs. Check the polarity on the coil and ballast resistor connections (easy enough to mess up). Make sure all the ground leads are solid and clean and are connected (you'd be surprised how one dud ground can affect a whole vehicle...) Electrics are tricky and you never know what has been done to an older vehicle.

I'm gonna punch something - why is it doing that!!?! Least we can read it now... Did you hook up the fuel cut solenoid on the carb correctly or did you ground it (the only thing I can think of that you might've changed seeming it's the only thing you removed from the engine - grounding it will roast the ignition circuit as it draws power from the coil)

Where is the bypass relay? I looked at the wiring diagrams in my Haynes manual but didbt see any relays and they weren't mentioned in the trouble shooting portion. I put all the leads on the coil and resistor just like they came off. I did hook the fuel cut solenoid back up. I should look at it again tho. I had a hard time soldiering it back together.

It's the relay you hear when you turn the ignition key. It's job is to direct all the power from the accessory circuits to the ignition to prevent the system from being overloaded. I am hedging my bets now and will say your ignition problem is revolving around the fuel cut solenoid on the carb. Disconnect it and try to start the engine (will require a few stabs on the throttle to prime the throats as the solenoid won't let it pull fuel up). If it coughs and shows some sign of life you have more than likely found the culprit.

So I got a chance to try a couple things before work today.

Cut the soldier mate out of the solenoid and put in connectors
Cleaned the positive terminal post on the battery and the clamp. Made sure it was a strong connection
Added a ground jumper to one of the starter bolts

Got it to crank over. it would turn over and try to stay but not run. I could only get it to turn over a couple time then I would get clicks again. Wait about a min and it would start turning over again but not run. I could smell exhaust and there was wetness in the carb. Not sure if the carb got fully primed as I never got it running after I put the carb back on. The ballast resistor is still getting really hot. I didn’t have time to check anything else before I had to leave for work.

I plan on trouble shooting the carb to make sure its getting gas. Check voltages not sure after that tho

Ok it would seem it's getting fuel. So it now comes down to an ignition fault or maybe the starter motor is on it's knees. Recently experienced my own starter motor drama that I 'repaired' (read that as a temporary fix) and funnily enough a member here also had a starter issue just after mine. Intermittent starts but had solid spark + fuel. The armature was fouled up (copper contacts were clogged with debris and were dull and a little burnt) and one of the brushes had jammed, thus not making contact to the contacts on the armature properly) The member sent theirs out to a shop - problem fixed. I did my own but didn't replace anything in it. Just a big clean out, fresh grease on the bearings, armature housing end and the throw out driver gear, clean out the gunk trapped between the copper contacts on the armature and refaced them in my drill press with a piece of worn out 180 grit wet and dry then a big polish up (freed up the sketchy brush that had jammed too). Took a few attempts while bench testing to get it to turn over and throw the drive gear out, but it's running like clockwork now and hasn't struggled once. Other thing is the ICM but before you look at that (module in the distributor) check that you are indeed getting spark - if you can get it to turn over. Joys of motoring...

its a brand new starter. so yeah I've got some testing for tomorrow. ill post up the results

Quote:

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Originally Posted by geezer101

Ok it would seem it's getting fuel. So it now comes down to an ignition fault or maybe the starter motor is on it's knees. Recently experienced my own starter motor drama that I 'repaired' (read that as a temporary fix) and funnily enough a member here also had a starter issue just after mine. Intermittent starts but had solid spark + fuel. The armature was fouled up (copper contacts were clogged with debris and were dull and a little burnt) and one of the brushes had jammed, thus not making contact to the contacts on the armature properly) The member sent theirs out to a shop - problem fixed. I did my own but didn't replace anything in it. Just a big clean out, fresh grease on the bearings, armature housing end and the throw out driver gear, clean out the gunk trapped between the copper contacts on the armature and refaced them in my drill press with a piece of worn out 180 grit wet and dry then a big polish up (freed up the sketchy brush that had jammed too). Took a few attempts while bench testing to get it to turn over and throw the drive gear out, but it's running like clockwork now and hasn't struggled once. Other thing is the ICM but before you look at that (module in the distributor) check that you are indeed getting spark - if you can get it to turn over. Joys of motoring...

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so i have done quite alot since this last post. i got the truck to turn over and eventually run. the carb was pissing me off so i got a weber k614 and a carter 4070 and installed both. after i did all this im back to the starter motor just clicking and now the coil is not getting power. there is power to the coil but the resistor doesnt have any power to it, the dash lights stopped working and there is a clicking noise in the distributor from the ICM module. so i belive i have a short and maybe a bad ICM

Quote:

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Originally Posted by geezer101

Other thing is the ICM but before you look at that (module in the distributor) check that you are indeed getting spark - if you can get it to turn over. Joys of motoring...

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so i have done quite alot since this last post. i got the truck to turn over and eventually run. the carb was pissing me off so i got a weber k614 and a carter 4070 and installed both. after i did all this im back to the starter motor just clicking and now the coil is not getting power. there is power to the coil but the resistor doesnt have any power to it, the dash lights stopped working and there is a clicking noise in the distributor from the ICM module. so i belive i have a short and maybe a bad ICM

Well no change with the new ICM. I blasted every connection with contact cleaner with no changes. I'll do some continuity checks this weekend and hopefully find a short or whatever is causing this issue.

6

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RiskyNick

so i have done quite alot since this last post. i got the truck to turn over and eventually run. the carb was pissing me off so i got a weber k614 and a carter 4070 and installed both. after i did all this im back to the starter motor just clicking and now the coil is not getting power. there is power to the coil but the resistor doesnt have any power to it, the dash lights stopped working and there is a clicking noise in the distributor from the ICM module. so i belive i have a short and maybe a bad ICM

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How can you have power to the coil but not the resistor? the keyed ignition switch wire should feed one side of the ballast resistor, the other side of the ballast resistor (now at 6 volts) feeds the coil

should look like this sketch i posted in another thread. http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin...8&d=1531232638

So I found my issue. After hooking the battery back up for the millionth time one of the power leads broke. The connection did seem to have a little corrosion. So I made a new terminal and spliced it. Bam truck fired right up.

I have new problems now tho. So my battery light was on the whole time I had the truck running dialing in the carb and timing. I shut the truck off and when I went to move it out of the garage it wont start. Turn signals wont work but hazards do. Battery light stays off but illuminates for a moment when the truck seems to fire but wont run. The engine will try to start but only for a moment. Coil is getting power because the resistor is glowing. I believe I'm back to a short somewhere.


So the red w/blue wire is the one I spliced to get the starter working again.
Attachment 20976

There's some questionable mods done to the battery lead end there. If you have a multimeter, try putting the truck battery on charge for a while then attempt an engine start. Check voltage across the battery. If it's not climbing or making more than 13v, something is up with it. Also do the standard battery health check (hydrometer + acid level visual check) It takes a bit of current to get the starter motor cranking so if the charging system is struggling, so too will the starter motor.

The battery is fine. What I was trying to get across that I believe it to be a short or something some where. When I turn the key to ACC no dash red warning lights come on (battery,oil, seatbelt). When I get the truck fire for half a sec the batt light comes on. After I got it running once the battery light was on the whole time the truck was running and driving. The headlights work as well as the flashers but no turn signals. The truck cranks fine now and will fire but not run. Ballast glows red. If you floor it and crank it it runs up then dies as fast as it revved up.

OK so going by that, there's a bridge somewhere between the ignition circuit and accessory that is shorting it out. It would explain the ACC issue and the lack of spark (the hot ballast resistor is what is causing the coil to die and drop out) Identify what has been added onto the electrical system, why it's been done and how to reverse it. The vast majority of the time when a vehicle has had an alteration to the stock system, it was due to a fault that the hack working on it couldn't pinpoint. End result is a bypass to the fault which then introduces a new fault on top of the existing one.

The crazy part for me is that I had it running and driving for 20min twice then this. I've looked all over for wear spots or splices , anything that would look out of place and so far nothing.

I'm still tending to think it's something that has been added to the electrical system. How did you hook up the Carter pump? Was it starting o.k. before the Weber install? The key indicator that there is something drastically wrong is the ballast resistor getting ridiculously hot. They should only get warm.

So I pulled the fuse box, cut away the tape loosened up the bundle and all the dash lights came back on and the turn signals work. Ballast still glows red and it won't run. I cut open the engine harness looking aroundand tracing wires with no luck. I cleaned up the ground on the computer. Found a couple suspect wires crimped together, but didn't get to finish looking at them. 108 f in my garage after work. I can only manage an hour in there after working all day.

Mmm, toasty. 108 is plenty warm enough without being caged up in a garage. I don't think you even need the computer connected up anymore with the Weber install. You can also delete the vac control unit as well.

So I'm at the point now where I just want to make a separate engine harness. After checking some stuff today the starter quit on me again. I ready to just wire it for what's needed for the motor and run a hot or 2 for the ACC functions.