Horrible Running

I replaced my head gasket this weekend and seemed to have really messed something up while I was in there.

This is what it sounds like..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jON1j33MzQ0

Yes, I know about the fan being stuck, it was on the ratchet and starts hitting it at the end making that whirring noise at the end before the engine dies.

Here is what I did to change out head gasket: Took off air box and valve cover, removed camshaft and checked my valve lash. When removing the camshaft I "DID" take the timing belt off the sprocket, knowing that I had a squealing that I wanted to check out down below so I was going to redo the timing anyway. I removed head bolts and exhaust manifold bolts. Lifted up head enough to remove old gasket and install new. Some coolant fell into 4th cyl and I cleaned it out with rag. (I did drain the coolant beforehand.) Replaced head bolts to torque spec and replaced exh bolts and gasket with new. I took off the metal serpentine belt guides and put a little grease between them, and that small plate that sites between the guide and the crank sprocket for time belt A.

I did the timing after the rebuild the marks line up PERFECTLY. I pulled the 1st cyl plug and made sure it was TDC compression on first cyl (after intake valve open n close) and it still sounds like its off timing or something. I checked the distributor and its on the correct cylinder also. It'll start after a few cranks but still sounds awful so I was afraid to run it more than to take the video.

A few ideas I had thought of... Cyl hitting jet valve? I didnt check them after replacing the cam shaft but was going to remove the screws as was recommended in one of the threads. Head not lined up perfectly on block? (Wouldn't this not make compression..?) I'm not sure, but the entire engine is shaking when its running and it is very rough.



At least it was running well compared to this before I replaced the head gasket. Now I honestly have nowhere to go from here besides getting a new head gasket and trying again. Any help would be appreciated. Please let me know what you guys think.

sounds like the timing belt is off - did you go by the manual or the threads on here - the manual has you off by 1 tooth. Did you check the valve lash adjustors to make sure they were not compressed? did you make sure the silent shaft belt was lined up with the marks when you did the timing belt - 1 tooth off there and the motor will try to shake itself out of the truck.

Attachment 18688Attachment 18689Attachment 18690Attachment 18691

Thanks for the feedback pennyman,

Edit: after looking at the close up pictures, it does seem like i am off a tooth on the cam, however I thought I had switched it back one because the other way didn't work either. I will align properly tomorrow evening and see if that works for me. ALSO, would there be any reason for the previous owner to mark the cam sprocket with that black arrow and white dot??

I agree, it sounded like bad timing to me and that's why I had gone back and double checked it.

The valve lash adjusters are 2 weeks old and I did take them out. They all looked normal. Timing belt A and B are both lined up. I'm assuming the silent shaft is the one belt B (the smaller one) is connected to. I did not have to adjust that one as it was already aligned when I had done the timing belts two weeks prior. I will take pictures and post momentarily.

How do you mean the manual has me off by one tooth??

Have you taken out the inspection bolts on the side of the block to make sure you can slot a screwdriver through them without being fouled by the shafts? (this is a test to assure the shafts are set so the cam belt can be timed in correctly) Cam does look like it is advanced one tooth - do you have to fully retard/advance the distributor to get it to fire? No chance of the head not being lined up correctly - they are dowelled into place. There is a small ridge cast into the alloy housing of the cam sprocket on the left side of the head about 1/4" below that mating line - this is the cam sprocket alignment mark. Lots of guys get caught out and think the gap where the rocker cover meets the head is the timing mark (some manuals don't make it very clear...)

I have not done the inspection with the screwdriver, but wouldnt the shafts already be set if I had the valve cover off and made sure cyl 1 was at tdc? Ive only done the stuff in the manual. I am sure that I messed up the timing for the dist. When I put the cams back in, I do not know how to adjust them since I don't have the electrical manual and have never worked on a vehicle with them before. :/ i will be googling to see how to so this. The truck starts after a few cranks.. Is it possible the truck is running this poorely with just that one tooth off on the cam sprocket? The truck did Idle a little rough before replacing the head gasket.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mikclson

. The truck starts after a few cranks.. Is it possible the truck is running this poorely with just that one tooth off on the cam sprocket?

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Absolutely. It's trying to run with the stock cam out by 7 or so degrees. It will mess with both the ignition and valve timing. There could be other factors that caused the initial rough idle like a dirty carb, tired ignition components, out of tune etc. Turn the engine by hand to TDC #1 and take off the valve cover. The rockers over #1 cylinder shouldn't be loaded up against the cam lobes (my bet will be #1 exhaust valve will be loaded up). Once you have the valve timing right you can sort out the distributor.

Alright guys, SO, I looked at it tonight and no such luck.

I redid the timing. As shown in the pictures below.

The cam...
Attachment 18698



Attachment 18699


The Crank..
Attachment 18700


Here is how the valves look without moving this setup on the timing belts.

The exh cyl on 1. down about 7 o clock
Attachment 18701

Intake valve (pic is upside down) its at around 4-5 o clock
Attachment 18702

Attachment 18703Attachment 18704

The cams are in top dead center.

Next pic is the piston (at top dead center, still not moving the timing belts from the position in first pics)
Attachment 18705

Hard to see, but its there and if I rotate the crank just a little it begins to go back down.


So everything is good and lined up - HERE is the video of how it runs now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBLOWFOqTvU

Sounds a little better than first vid. however, still running AWFUL. I rotate the distributor some to show you guys the timing differences.



After doing this, I advanced the cam timing belt 1 tooth- the truck ran even worse/barely started. I set it back to normal, then did the opposite way one tooth on the cam timing belt and it wouldnt start at all.

Now I am really stuck..

Edit: The whistling in the vid is the crank case breather. There is also a really bad ticking from one of the valves. At the end of the video I turn off the truck and its still sorta running?!?! and then it sounds like it crashes or something. I have no idea.

Can you see excessive rocker to cam lobe clearance anywhere or manually feel any play? It could possibly mean a bent valve - a compression check will verify that.

Yessir, will check tomorrow after work for excessive clearence. I'll see if I can borrow my shops compression gauge. I was burning oil before the engine started acting up so I guess I'll find out if its rings or seals anyway. 188k on the odo.

Thanks and will update tomorrow evening.

Your mileage is too low for it to be dead unless it was abused/neglected. Check to see if your vacuum advance is working on the distributor as well. A non functioning vac unit will badly nerf an engine. After that all you can do are the usual checks like vacuum leaks etc. Hopefully you won't find anything that turns into a deal breaker...

ALLLLLRRRIIIGHT - Did compression and leak down test.

Results

Compression (4 or 5 cranks) | Leak down

Cyl 1 150 PSI compression. \\ 95 PSI 10% Leakage.

Cyl 2 150 PSI compression. \\ 95 PSI 9% Leakage.

Cyl 3 170 PSI compression. \\ 80 PSI 1% Leakage.

Cyl 4 170 PSI compression. \\ 95 PSI 15% Leakage.

Also looked at my distributor because I didnt want all my plugs sparking so I took it off at tdc and noticed at full rotation turning the dist. towards the engine. That the rotor BARELY touches spark plug wire 1... I think I found my issue..

The snap on Gauge I did the leak down with had green readings for anything less than like 20% leakage. Do you guys think these results are Ok?
(Also I mightve done 5 cranks on cyl 3 and 4 rather than 4 cranks.) Could my ignition timing being off by a large amount cause TERRIBLE running like what I am experiencing?

I also noticed a hissing/sucking/ "liquid being compressed through a tight space with air in it" sound coming from this area while doing leak down test. looks like a little rod that rides on the cams leading to some vac pump maybe? Im not sure what it is. Is this sounds okay? I can take a video of it tomorrow morning if needed.

Attachment 18707Attachment 18708Attachment 18709

Thanks again for your help.

You should have near even available adjustment of full advance/retard if the distributor has been installed correctly. If you have to take the distributor out and bump it a tooth forward or back and it requires max adjustment of advance/retard to get it to fire you have a rare (and weird) phenomenon of the distributor being out by half a tooth. To rectify it requires changing the firing sequence of the spark plug leads by swapping #1 lead for #4 and #3 for #2 (same orientation as standard but with the cap upside down so to speak) I got caught with this issue once before and I knew the rules - leads are in order, new plugs and rotor, set it @ TDC. Nada, couldn't get it to fire. Took the distributor out, checked it, tried bumping it a tooth either way. Full advance, full retard. Still refused to start. Last option was to swap the firing order off the distributor. Dialled it in - fired first shot perfectly. Only took a few hours of swearing at it lol

Hissing, fluid sucking noise and the small rod are all...fuel pump related. The rod you see through that gallery is the pump actuator rod. Should've added that to last post.

I did the switching of the distributor 1 and 4, 2 and 3. I understood what you were talking about after looking at the thing for awhile. it made a huge difference. well kind of..

Also my engine ran for about 30 seconds after I killed the ignition.. I've never seen this before. I frantically ripped out all the spark plugs though I guess that was pointless considering it was running off straight compression.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSl2wlU0PGE

Next, should I use a timing light to dial it in? What do you think it sounds like? I don't really understand why my idle is so high though. something with carb? I am probably going to get a weber carb for it because all these vacuum lines and electronic choke is foreign to me. Theres also a weird whining, whirring noise coming out of there..

Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it.

O.k. that is a massive improvement. Check your accelerator cable adjustment and throttle stop on the carb - make sure it's not loading the throttle. It is going to run on like crazy with idle that high (and it is...) You won't be able to set your timing advance with it revving it's head off. I have a tendency to not worry about a timing light other than using it as a diagnostic tool. I set the idle, then hold the rpm's @ 2000 and swing the distributor back and forth until I hit a 'sweet' spot and the rpm's jump by themselves, then retard the timing a touch (this allows for the engine vacuum under load and a bit of a buffer for crap fuel). Reason why I do this is due to the engine isn't driven at idle speed, it's normally running at 2k.
You are making good progress - once you have found the way to set the idle rpm it should be running like a champ :thumbup:

Thanks geezer, will update post after getting the idle down.

Sorry for the late reply but here is the conclusion.

I took the cam back out and aligned the worm gear so when I put the cam back down on it, the distrubutor was pointed to 1st cyl at top dead center. This fixed my ignition timing problem

I ended up putting a weber carb in it with electronic fuel pump. Put in fresh plugs as it was dieseling a bit before so I assumed they might be a little crispy. I then adjusted distributor - fuel mix screw - then idle screw. and Truck idles very well and is consistent. lots of power, no ticking. somehow it took away my smoking out of the exh and no more dieseling.

Thanks for all the help guys.

:thumbup: