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I'm gonna replace the rotors calipers, hoses and pads. I want to know where to get the correct inner/outer knuckle bearings or if it is even necessary to change them. There is only 4WD bearings on RA and web searching leaves me leery. I'm not eve sure how hard they would be to press if I don't have the cup for it.
Use the complete assemblies from a Gen II truck and ditch the solid rotors for vented discs. Knocking bearings and cups out and installing new ones with punch pins and drifts can be done - just be patient and gentle to avoid damaging the replacement cups and ensuring they seat squarely. If you go for the bolt on brake swap, take one apart and use the bearings and cups as a sample into a bearing shop.
Thanks Geez. I'm just staying stock on the brakes for now. Its only got 111Kish miles on it. I stopped in at a NAPA one town over and they had the bearings and seals, all on the shelf. About $45 At least what his book told him my truck took :) Its nice today but I don't feel up to it. Maybe in a few days once the storms coming pass over again. I have a press. I don't have the cups I should for it, but maybe a big socket or the removed parts will work.
the 2nd gen rotors are not a direct swap - there is an offset if used with 1st gen calipers. the bearings and seals are the same, however.
That's why I referred to them as 'complete assemblies' (steering hubs, calipers and rotors). Saves time pulling everything apart and eliminates compatibility issues. I'll get there one day lolQuote:
Originally Posted by pennyman1
I already got the calipers, rotors and pads I had forgotten about bearings until they arrived and just happened to find them today after posting this. Always seems to work like that for me, post a question then suddenly the answer falls into my lap :) dumb luck I guess.
I got it up on jacks and took the wheels off. It is filthy. I took some pics before and after a bit of scraping away 30 years of built up dirt and grease. I also opened up the lower fender on the pass side and sure enough it dumped a load of wet dirt. Well at least its clean now.
I have scraped up and hosed down both sides of the suspension parts they both look like the dirty one I show. I removed the bumper and that splash guard thing. I'm reading the manual to be sure I do all I can right. What shocks fit here? They look a lot shorter than the spring assist Gabriel's I used on the back.n How hard is it to press these ball joints?
Before cleaning- Attachment 17915 Attachment 17916 Attachment 17917
After cleaning- Attachment 17912 Attachment 17913 Attachment 17914
Is the Mitsubishi Ball Joint good? I found a pair of MB176309 uppers and I am wondering if I should go with them or ??? Moog seems to be way over priced and I have heard they have gone down in quality.
EDIT- I found a pair of Moog lowers for $20 off and uppers for $15 off so I got em on RA. Here is the eBay link to the Mitsu upper ball joints $20 each http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Replacem...RXL4Rw&vxp=mtr
I went for ball joints, new upper control Arm Shafts, new Stab bar link, new lower shaft bushings. Still have to figure out what shocks best pair with the spring assist Gabriel's I just put on the back.
EDIT- Let me know if I am missing something I should do.
Is the relay bar (pic) in the FSM the same thing as the moog "front tie rod adjusting sleeve"?
Moog only offers an Idler Arm bushing kit. Is that sufficient or should I change out the idler arm when I do the pitman and tie rods?
Attachment 17921
Quote:
Originally Posted by 85Ram50
nice work!
Thanks but I did it just so I oculd remove everything. I'm doing a little at a time. Had to get a breaker bar to get the caliper body off. I've dropped the tie rod ends and will be going for the hubs next. There is still a lot of gunk in there behind the rotor protection plate.Quote:
Originally Posted by ragragtimetime
Edit- Just scraped some more and still finding fasteners buried in hardened grease. IDK for sure but I am supposed to replace the strut bushings along with all this other new stuff Right? the only thing I haven't got in its way is the strut bushings and sway bar bushings. I'm guessing they should be done when I am doing the link.
I'm debating myself if I should replace the rotors and bearings right now. The rotor looks good, the pads were old but not fully worn and the grease inside the cap on the one hub I took off was hard but everything looked new and it spins what I would consider normal. how loose should it be? Maybe I'll just add it to the pile with the extra clutch I got. That's a story. I ordered one from a company and they sent me a different brand. I notified them and they just sent me another clutch! didn't want the other one back.
Well I had to go get another larger (1/2") breaker bar for the knuckle ball joint nuts and it turns out 3 are 24mm and one is 7/8"!
EDIT- I've got the hub and brake shield off on the passenger side. I am going to change the bearings and use the new rotors after all. Got stopped by the need for a pickle fork. I didn't know that it was just hanging on by compression as i removed the jack and it did not drop the spring then I posted in the shoutbox and did an online search only to find i left it in a very dangerous state. I dug into the recycle bin and retrieved the castle nuts put them back on and will get the pickle fork after I tear down the other side. link showing how to remove the spindle/knuckle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1akqSJE0ss
Got the pickle fork and the lower ball joint gave way just as in that video. I didn't have the strut bar and bottom stop removed so the spring didn't fall out but once you are sure it is released of all tension you can push the lower control arm down and the coil will come out. The upper ball joint hung onto the top of the spindle. I did some research and the best way after wasting a lot of energy with the pickle fork and pitman arm puller is to smack the outer section of the spindle right where the ball joint goes through with a big hammer. I use a 4lb with a short handle. Two smacks and each dropped right out. Now I need to figure out the exact size of the nut that holds the pitman arm in as my 14" adjustable is too short and too fat to fit on at a safe angle for me. The 1 1/8th wrench I have is just a hair too small.
EDIT-The nut is 30mm the oreillys pitman arm puller would not fit because the grabbers were too fat to get the puller on fully centered. It went on to where I could get the push pin to connect but that push pin is too narrow and it has a button on top that prevents using a socket and breaker bar.
Edit2- got it off had to get a kit at harbor freight with a pulled the right size. Then I realized I did not mark the location to replace the new pitman in!! Any help with setting the pitman arm in the right position would be appreciated. I will be using the ties rods as is to set the length of the new ones.
there is a line on the shaft that you line up with the mark on the pitman arm
:thumbup:Thanks Pennyman. It's a relief.
Updating- I got the upper control arm shafts out. See other thread in this section of the forum. The nuts on the end are 33mm.
The ball joints in the upper arm have snap rings on the underside. You can pull it off with a good vise grip,(there is just enough edge for a good flat faced Vgrip to grab) it destroys them but the new one comes with. To press them out if you have press but no cups use a 32mm socket it is perfect size.
I also rebuilt the hubs this morning. Save the inner races for pressing the new bearing races in! They go in a lot further than you might think is ok and you will think they will get stuck but they come back out easy.
The outer bearing comes off as instructed by the manual hitting a screw driver or flat punch it on the 3 scalloped divots you can see from the other side in the flat that it seats on. The inner bearing and oil seal can be pressed with a 30mm socket and I put a 27mm socket on top of it to get the length (these are 3 inch long heavy duty sockets) It pushes out the oil seal and bearings. I have the harbor freight 12 ton press with a 20 ton bottle jack in it. Their 12 ton bottle jack died.
Then you have to hammer out the inner race the same way you do the front. You can clean up the grease if you like. I did I want all new stuff in there.
To press in the new races I used a 1/8x3 piece of plate steel I have to get the inner race flush, then I put the old race on top of the new one and the plate again and press it. You have to go until the old race is almost flush with the outer surface to get the new race seated. You can knock the old one out again in the same way you did the first time. Then grease up the bearings and place them on the race and the oil seal over it. Using the plate I press it flush.
In the outer race it sits almost flush just placing it there so I use the old race from the start and do the same thing checking that it is fully seated. This is a good reason to remove the grease from the inside, it makes it easier to see if you have them properly seated.
I've got most of the parts I ordered and only have to clean up the areas of the truck where they mount before putting it all back together now.
This disc job turned into a front end rebuild. In the first pic I have temp installed the Moog stablizer bar link. I am unsure if that is the correct way. Please let me know. Attachment 17955
OK I have the spindles back on and all the new stuff on the control arms and the sway/strut bars. Let me know if anything looks wrong please. This is the first time I have done this.
After this I have to install the new steering parts. What is that red/Pink color code on my coils? The FSM does not have a red on the color code list. I have the cotter pins taped up in case I did something wrong it will be easier to take things apart.
Pictures :) Attachment 17956 Attachment 17957 Attachment 17958 Attachment 17959 Attachment 17960 Attachment 17961
The first thing I did was to put in the new brake line and new calipers. They rusted because I was messy with the brake fluid.
where is the lower bump stop? If you run with no lower stop you will hyper extend the ball joints and blow them out. I run Geronimo with the stock ones cut in half - that is the most to shorten them without ball joint damage, unless you convert to Uni-ball joints like 4 wheelers use.
Sorry I guess I wasn't as clear as I thought I was. I put new bushings on the struts and sway bar and connected the bump stop after I took these pics. They are on bolted through the struts as per OE. Edit- Actually you can see the drivers side bump stop in the new strut bushing pic
just keeping you safe - most people don't think about the way the suspension moves and misses that the stops are there to limit travel of the ball joints.
I feel stupid but I can't find how to tighten the castle nuts on the ball joints or the tie rods in the FSM. There is a list of specs at the end of the suspension chapter but IDK if that is for both or just the 4WD. mine is 2WD. How tight does one make them?
If there's only one torque recommendation I'd say that that it will be for both. I doubt there would be different torque settings for the ball joints anyway.
Thanks Geez. Rained out most of the day. I cleaned up the relay rod and put together the two tie rods holding them up next to the old ones. I used anti seize on the threads. I also got the hubs on during a break in the rain. Took more grease than I expected to fill them back to where they were. All I have left is to remove the old idler arm mount and install the new steering linkage then do the brakes and then make sure everything is greased and torqued. Edit- You can use a 2 inch PVC coupling to help you get the caps back on over the hub nut without denting it. It covers about 1/3rd of the lip, you can knock it in and rotate it to get the rest of it.
The Moog tie rod end that goes to the driver side did not have a place to screw in a grease zirt. It has a rubber boot which I assume has grease in it. All the rest of the new moog joints in the steering linkage I put together came with grease zirts for me to install. Is this normal or did I get a tie rod end that isn't up to snuff?
you can drill the tie rod and screw in a zerk fitting, or use a needle made to fit in a grease gun and inject grease into it around the boot.
Hopefully this gets seen fast as weather is coming.
OK I have run into a problem. I set the idler arm then connected the tie rods on each side so I figured the pitman should line up with the other end of the relay bar. The relay bar did not line up with the pitman arm with the steering wheel set straight and the front wheel on the driver side where I was working set straight.
Here's what I did. I removed the pitman then realized I could turn it so I set the pitman with the marks again and turned it to make it meet the relay bar. So far so good. I have the tie rods connected with the castle nuts screwed until I met resistance by hand. So I went into the cab to set the steering wheel and turned it to set the front driver wheel hub/rotor straight. Took off the cover and went to check the pass side to be sure and I see it is turned in while the driver is straight. !?!?!?!?!?
When I set the tie rods yesterday I copied the existing rods length exactly. I laid them side by side and they were in the same alignment and length. Clearly I missed something, maybe one of the little balls was tilted and gave me an optical illusion.
Anyway I assume this means I need to adjust it. Please let me know how to get it right asap. I understand the point of the lock nut and the left handed threads I just don't know enough to feel safe just making it look straight. I intend to take it in for an alignment when I am done.
This is how it looked when I first installed it. Attachment 17968 Just to show the removal tool.Attachment 17970
This is it installed Attachment 17969 Not sure you can see the pass side is turning in, Attachment 17971
So I messed about with things and tightened up the castle nuts on the steering from the driver side toward the passenger. I removed the tie rod end on the passenger side and held the rotor straight and it seems like tightening things up fixed things as the tie rod end lined up with the hole so I figured it was close enough to drive it to the shop for an alignment.
I painted the new calipers to inhibit any more rust. I have the brakes back on the passenger side and am at a standstill as I lost two of the pins for the driver side. I ordered all 8 from Napa. It will be two days before they get here.
I jacked up the lower control arms and torqued the ball joints and all castle nuts are tight. Everything is tight I'm down to just that brake caliper and bleeding the system. Seems like I over greased the idler arm as a lot came out at the base of the boot while I tightened it. I just wiped it off and everything seems fine. Oh the sway bar link doesn't get tightened until I have it sitting on its wheels. There is a torque spec in the manual.
Edit- the bad weather never showed.