Head gasket issue '87 ram50, 2.6

[dodgy71]

So I was flushing the cooling system, garden hose in the therm. housing was able to put some good flushing power to it both directions, had the engine running bc I figured w/the waterpump turning it would flush and clean just that much better. The issue=all the sudden the engine started to bog down and white smoke starts billowing out the tail pipe
Did I somehow take out the head gasket? It now hardly wants to start and when it does it runs really rough and the white smoke comes and goes. Previous owner had just put a new head gasket and had the head inspected and found no cracks or warp. Any clue what happened? Also, after letting it sit overnight the next morning pulled the rad. cap and the system was under pressure, i can't detect any gurgling or back pressure while it's running but there's obviously a problem that wasn't there b4 the flush.

[geezer101]

That sounds like a cracked head. If you flushed the engine after it had been running for a while the sudden shock of cold water will split a head like its made out of chalk. Check your plugs and they will give you an indicator of where the failure has taken place (water entering a combustion chamber will scour all traces of carbon from plugs etc) The cold water from a garden hose going against the flow of hot water has enough pressure to overpower the pump. Rules are never try to flush an engine with it running. If it's at operating temperature there is a high risk of being seriously burned and any sudden changes in internal cooling temps can do the kind of damage you may have already experienced :(

[dodgy71]

The engine was cold when I ran the hose thru it

[dodgy71]

...but I have a sick gut feeling you're right about being a cracked head.

[geezer101]

A garden hose on an open supplied cooling system won't have any where near enough pressure to damage something. There's no guarantee the PO was upfront on the actual condition of the engine either. It also could be something far more sinister than a bad head or gasket, like a cracked block but I don't even want to go there :shakehead: It could be just a crap head gasket or the PO didn't retorque the head bolts after the specified road miles. Only way to be sure is pull the head and do an inspection.

[dodgy71]

I'm thinking that's where I'll start,
aside from the heating issue which I discovered to be a clogged rad. the motor was running good, sheesh I hope I didn't somehow trash it

[geezer101]

I'll bet the flush out has done exactly what you wanted it to - clean out some/most of that bars leaks garbage. In the process it has exposed the reason why it was used in the first place. Hope it is only a crap head gasket. This is the reason why i would never recommend using a band aid fix for a major issue, and it's also a scumbag act to use it just to palm off a 'bad' engine to someone else.
:cussingblack:

[SubGothius]

If the PO had just installed a new HG and verified the head was good, if you're lucky the head bolts might just need retorquing to spec.

Back off each bolt by 1/4 turn, going in the order shown at left for all bolts, then retorque them all in the order shown at right -- first to step 1) for all bolts on a cold engine, then to step 2) still cold, then warm up to full operating temp, and finally do step 3) while still hot. For the smaller bolts at the front, 18 Nm = 13.2 ft-lbs, and 156 in-lbs = 13 ft-lbs, but Haynes lists 15 ft-lbs, so 13-15 ft-lbs range is prolly fine.

http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=27190&stc=1

[dodgy71]

If the PO had just installed a new HG and verified the head was good, if you're lucky the head bolts might just need retorquing to spec.

Back off each bolt by 1/4 turn, going in the order shown at left for all bolts, then retorque them all in the order shown at right -- first to step 1) for all bolts on a cold engine, then to step 2) still cold, then warm up to full operating temp, and finally do step 3) while still hot. For the smaller bolts at the front, 18 Nm = 13.2 ft-lbs, and 156 in-lbs = 13 ft-lbs, but Haynes lists 15 ft-lbs, so 13-15 ft-lbs range is prolly fine.

http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=27190&stc=1

Thank you, I'll try that first and hope that cures it
If I end up pulling the head how tricky is keeping the timing and dist. in the same position so I don't get everything all outta whack? That's what worries me a little. Otherwise the HG seems a pretty simple job.

[dodgy71]

So I re-torqued everything today, fingers crossed, it seems ok now. I'll give it the hwy test this weekend.

[geezer101]

Awesome. I'll cross (what's left...) of my fingers for you too. Overheating + a sudden internal cooling system fail would test anyone's patience.

[camoit]

Sounds more like a hole in the intake allowed water into the engine

[dodgy71]

Wishful thinking...white smoke and runs really rough on cold startup
After it warms up everything seems fine but obviously it's burning coolant. It's going to the transmission shop in the morning so I guess the head will hafta wait, I just hope it isn't cracked or worse a cracked block. There's a head on fb group right now, im considering buying it b4 someone else does just so I have it if I need it.

[geezer101]

This is one of the pitfalls with a fault like this. Going into the unknown and preparing to fire the parts cannon, or hoping for the best thinking it'll only be a minor thing and then you get the bad news. Have you pulled the spark plugs to narrow down where the coolant breach is specifically? It won't help much but at least you'll have an idea where to look.

[dodgy71]

I pulled the plugs and oddly none of em look like they've been burning water. Got me scratching my head for sure. The trans. shop let me down too so it's been a productive day all around.

[Pengineer1]

Dodgy, you got my tranny shop message didn't you? Was he the shop that let you down?
Bill

[FMS88]

I pulled the plugs and oddly none of em look like they've been burning water. Got me scratching my head for sure.

Have you performed a compression test since it started smoking?

[dodgy71]

Dodgy, you got my tranny shop message didn't you? Was he the shop that let you down?
Bill
Yes I did and no he wasn't

[dodgy71]

Have you performed a compression test since it started smoking?
Negative

[xboxrox]

Wishful thinking...white smoke and runs really rough on cold startup
After it warms up everything seems fine but obviously it's burning coolant. It's going to the transmission shop in the morning so I guess the head will hafta wait, I just hope it isn't cracked or worse a cracked block. There's a head on fb group right now, im considering buying it b4 someone else does just so I have it if I need it.

Same coolant & running issues with my truck dodgy ~ the military DIY auto skills center foreman has a cooling system pressure tester & combustion gas tester we plan to use & maybe pull the spark plugs ~ in the past, one of the center plugs came out clean white (not good) Barhs Leaks helped for a few years but this evil has begun again ~ it is scary pumping $$ into this truck knowing that any number of expensive fixes happen quite often ~ hope you get it all sorted out my friend

MD151982 is part # for 2.6L OEM bare cylinder head ~

ebay sells complete cylinder heads but I don't know which to buy the Hydraulic or Mechanical ??

[FMS88]

Negative

A compression test may not locate the small leak you have, but it will give you baseline readings to work from or suggest there are other fish to fry.
Since the leak is small and if you don't have a cooling system pressure tester, try this test: Warm it up for 5-10 minutes to pressurize the cooling system. Shut off and let cool down completely. Remove the spark plugs and have someone engage the starter for 4-5 revolutions. Watch from a safe angle for coolant ejected from any plug holes, or place a piece of cardboard over all four holes. You should see a spray or find coolant on the cardboard that identifies the cylinder(s) with a coolant leak.
This worked when I had the same problem and symptoms due to a surface flaw between a water jacket and cylinder #4 on the head. Also if looking for another head, avoid one with jet valves. They're very prone to cracking.

[SubGothius]

Clearwater Cylinder Head is well-regarded by many here; they list a non-jet-valve head with mechanical lash adjusters for the 2.6L here:

https://www.cylinder-heads.com/product/new-fit-mitsu-starion-conquest-2-6-sohc-cylinder-head-mechanical-81-86-no-core/

[geezer101]

Camoit made a comment about the intake manifold. There are 3 places where coolant 'could' make it's way into the combustion chambers. Rear of the intake manifold between #3 and #4 where the heater barb is connected (would show up on the corresponding plugs), thermostat housing end (breach into #1 intake runner and show up on #1 plug, really unlikely to make it's way into #2) or the coolant port under the carb breaching straight into the base plenum (would pool there and make it's way into all intake runners) The intake manifolds on the G63B suffer from corrosion in the base of the intake plenum but it would only eat through from underneath and cause pinhole leaks but not leak into the plenum itself. The base plate is only welded on and is relatively thin compared to the rest of the aluminium casting. Could corrosion eat upwards into the plenum chamber? - haven't heard of it happening, but doesn't mean it's 100% improbable...

[dodgy71]

What does water in every cylinder indicate? Pulled the exhaust manifold and yep, every port is wet.

[xboxrox]

Clearwater Cylinder Head is well-regarded by many here; they list a non-jet-valve head with mechanical lash adjusters for the 2.6L here:
https://www.cylinder-heads.com/product/new-fit-mitsu-starion-conquest-2-6-sohc-cylinder-head-mechanical-81-86-no-core/

Yesterdays further research ~

Clearwater
https://www.cylinder-heads.com/product-not-found/?p_year=1986&p_make=Mitsubishi&p_model=L200&p_size=2.6: they emailed saying: I have a brand new heavy duty aftermarket head available. It is non jet valve, mechanical head. Head is complete with valves, springs, cams and rockers and is ready to install. All heads are checked before they ship and come with a 5 year warranty. I only have the head, no other parts. Cost is 475.00 plus 165.00 for shipping


TopEndPerformance
http://www.topendperformance.com/ sells this 2.6L head: https://www.racetep.com/automaker/starion/cylinder-heads-and-components/non-jet-ultimate.html?p=success&e=gspahng@gmail.com ~ I asked them what their performance cam would do on my all original truck besides reduce gas mileage ~ their reply: I would get our mild Low End Torque cam for your application, mild upgrade and good with the Weber Carb...

Final Thoughts
-- Go with the Clearwater offer & purchase fasteners from Top End Performance

Question (s)
-- Can the cylinder head be replaced without having to disassemble the timing chain stuff..?
-- Can this be done DIY..?
-- While the head is off, what methods if any could or should be done to remove carbon from the piston tops, if any is present, if if if ?
-- Do I need the stainless steel head gasket OR just buy stock gaskets from Rock Auto, O'Reilly's etc... (head replacement set?)
-- Does anyone have any cautionary or words of wisdom before throwing about $1,000.00 into the wind phfffff..?
-- Maybe I should just buy another bottle of Barhs Leaks & keep driving..?

NOTES
Other than using some coolant & running rough a while at startup, the truck runs ok

THE TRUTH ABOUT ENGINE SEALERS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzei00daP5M<<<------- :bang:

[geezer101]

What does water in every cylinder indicate? Pulled the exhaust manifold and yep, every port is wet.

I think it can only mean 3 things. Catastrophic head failure (really not good) Bad head gasket (pain in the ass but not a deal breaker) or coolant breach in the intake manifold (taking an intake apart is 2 hours of your life - biggest issue is the insulator gasket at the base of the carb and having to replace it...)

[dodgy71]

My thoughts exactly, i hadn't considered the intake as a point of failure. I'll check it out, thanks