Timing...still.. help!

[ConvertibleMaxx]

So I'm still fighting the timing issue with my truck, I have crank, oil pump, cam marks lined up appropriately, distrib rotor pointing at #1. Starts and idles but it's rough, hit it with my timing light and it's 5° ATDC
The distributor is as "retarded" as it can go.
Beyond frustrated, some one help..

[geezer101]

Distributor is out by 180ish degrees. No idea why it happens but it does. This caught me out and I spent 4 hours trying to get the engine running. Remove the distributor with the engine @ TDC #1, rotate it so the rotor points to #4 on the distributor cap when installed and set the distributor body so it's in the middle of it's range of adjustment. Swap the leads on the cap - #1 to #4, #2 to #3 (maintains the firing order, but resets #4 on the cap to #1 and write it down so you don't forget!) Should fire first hit, just need a little adjustment to tune it.

[SubGothius]

It happens if you disassemble the mechanical advance mechanism and put it back together 180° around, because that has two opposing pins to align, whereas the dizzy drive gear has an odd number of teeth, so your ignition timing winds up a half-tooth off -- install it on one tooth, it's too far advanced and can't be retarded enough, so pull and reinsert it the next tooth over, and then it's too far retarded and can't be advanced enough!

[ConvertibleMaxx]

I really appreciate it geezer! I'll give that a try when the sun comes up haha. 4hrs? Hell I've been fighting this for a month.
I've read about the half tooth off a few times but no one has ever explained why/how it happens. So I thank you Subgothius.
Hopefully I'll have the biatch all ironed out and road worthy today.
I

[geezer101]

Let us know how you go :thumbup:

[ConvertibleMaxx]

Well, idk how to thank you Geezer.
Started right up, was at 15° BTDC. I got it at 8-9° seem to like that.
Does have a studder when you give it gas. Along with an absolute horrid squealing sound coming from the valve cover area im guessing. Maybe I got my cam caps to tight? I had to remove my cams to do the jet valve eliminator kit due to it burning up #4 jet valve.

[ConvertibleMaxx]

Horrid squealing was timing belt not tight enough haha she runs like uh tops fellas. Thanks again. Don't even know how happy I am right now :))

[ConvertibleMaxx]

Back to square one, backed it out of my drive way and it starts lightly back firing. Studdering. Belts squealing again. Engines shaking like hell. :( I don't get it, was running great till I tried to drive it.

[geezer101]

Check the distributor leads/rotor and timing. Even if you manually have to dial it in by feel. Check plugs and gaps - make sure each plug is getting spark. It is something small at this point preventing it from running smooth.

[ConvertibleMaxx]

I'll check all that now.
The cap, rotor and plug wires are all new. I
I did the old carb clean around my base gaskets and plugged vac lines trick. Didn't change anything.
I was reading on another thread you mentioned there's a 14mm bolt on the side of the block some where that's an inspection hole of some kind for oil pump? Is that relevant to my situation?

Only win I've gotten so far this morning is I figured out why my cooling fan constantly ran haha

[ConvertibleMaxx]

I can't figure out how to post a video off my phone so you have a visual of what I'm dealing with.

[geezer101]

The bolts on the side of the block is the balance shaft inspection. During the process of setting up the timing belts, you remove this bolt and pass a screwdriver/rod etc in through the hole to prevent the balance shaft from rotating out of time. You may have stumbled upon the the problem here. If the shaft is out of sync with timing it will have a pretty horrendous vibration. The oil pump side has a timing mark on the belt sprocket (hard to mess up...) but it is still crucial to get both shafts synchronised with the main timing.

[ConvertibleMaxx]

This might be a rookie question but would it matter if my balance shaft as been deleted?
My engine has been remanned by Jaspers. From what I've read its pretty common thing of them to do.
I looked all over the block for the inspection bolt... couldn't find it. :(

[geezer101]

If the shaft(s) are deleted, it will have minimal impact on the engine - if they have been deleted properly. If the secondary shaft was simply removed, the lifespan of the engine could be measured in minutes at it would suffer a catastrophic oil pressure failure right off the bat (similar to having a balance shaft bearing failure) The bolt holes will be right in the middle of the block above crank height (between cylinders 2 and 3) The secondary counter balance shaft is higher up on the exhaust side of the block. If you haven't removed the oil pump, the shaft and pump will still be timed correctly (the shaft is driven off the pump gears and there are 2 dimples that face each other when installed and set correctly)

Check this video for shaft checks on the oil pump side https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StWL4GiT9yA All 4G6X engines are timed the same.

[ConvertibleMaxx]

Once again, can't thank you enough for the knowledge Geezer.
I'm outta town till September so Max is on stand by till then.
Will be the first thing I check when I get back.
I never removed oil pump, so shouldn't be an issue right? I'll still check for good measure and peace of mind. (What's left it at this point)
I'm gonna guess the delete was done appropriately, I have some papers that came along with the truck from Jaspers. I'll thumb through em when I have the chance see if there's anything about balance shaft delete work.

[ConvertibleMaxx]

Holly hell...after watching that video :bang:

[geezer101]

If you are running the counter balance belt, it's still has the shafts installed. A balance shaft delete will pose no mechanical issues if done right. You will gain throttle response, remove a weak link in the oil pressure system, make the secondary counter balance timing belt redundant and take a load off the oil pump. 4G15 Lancer engines run a stubby oil pump shaft which is a crucial component for the balance shaft delete as this OEM factory shaft has an oil channel around the shaft and a through gallery (and the Mitsubishi part is CHEAP). Aftermarket kits are known to cause oil pump failures due to lack of adequate lubrication around the shaft due to the omission of the oiling channel and gallery.
Good luck with getting it running right - you are almost over the finish line :thumbup: