Sight unseen

[fullchoke]

Hello, just joined this site. I have looked at a few Dodge D-50 trucks, that were for sale online as surplus over the years and this last week I bought one.... for better or worse. I don't know what I'm in for because I bought it online by the pictures. I have collected military vehicles and this 1987 Ram 50 is a USAF original. It was picked up by the National Park Service when the USAF was done with it and that is where I got it. I actually haven't got it or even seen it in person yet. It was listed as not drivable, so I'm planning on trailering it home. Anybody here have one of these little dark blue pickups? I have seen them up for auction every now and then, but don't know much about them or how many the air force bought or how they may be different from any other 1987 2wd model. I hope it doesn't take much to get it going, but I might need some help.
Thanks,
Greg

[tortron]

ahh i think someone posted that one up here if it was for sale recently, blue with what looked like sun damaged paint?

From what i have seen of ex military trucks it will more or less be a base model interior with certain thing optioned out (no cigarette lighter for example)
might have some holes drilled in the dash and exterior to accommodate radios, antennas and lights

otherwise it will be the same as any other civilian one



The army utes over here get a hard life from the drivers, but because the tax payer is footing the bill, nothing is repaired, it is replaced. Noisy gearbox? just put a new one in etc

[fullchoke]

It probably is the one you are talking about. It closed on the 13th. It has peeling paint or clear coat. It also said it has a stuck odometer, because they said it had to have rolled over 100k, but I think it may not have. I haven't heard of an odometer doing that. Stop working yes, but not 1 digit stop working. But who knows. I'm not too nervous about it cause the price wasn't too bad.
My experience with surplus gov't equipment that was free to them from the military, is they don't repair. They just get another free one, or cannibalize it for parts if they do repairs.

[xboxrox]

Hello fullchoke, congrats on winning the bidding on your new truck! I posted it for sale in the shout box -- tortron sums it up well as probably a base model & they just painted it USAF blue -- check out my photo album "truck from Barstow" a NAVY owned truck sold at govt auction --
Aloha -- George

EDIT: I bought sight unseen like you did & came from Hawaii to California to get the truck :)

[fullchoke]

I looked at your photos....nice truck and 4x4 to boot! Mine is only 2wd, but I'm ok with that as I hope the MPG is good. Will these trucks cruise at 65-70mph? The one I bought is supposed to have the 2.6L with auto.
Thanks

[xboxrox]

I looked at your photos....nice truck and 4x4 to boot! Mine is only 2wd, but I'm ok with that as I hope the MPG is good. Will these trucks cruise at 65-70mph? The one I bought is supposed to have the 2.6L with auto.
Thanks

I just looked at your trucks auction photos again too -- you have a nice truck as well ~ I noticed the hood release latch is hanging down & a not too bad dent FR fender ~ otherwise a solid looking rust free canvas for you the artist ! Should be ok @ 60 mph 65 to 70 not as quiet but it can do it ~ my MPG mostly 20 mpg maybe 22 at best ~ 4x2 better on gas I bet ~
Have fun & get it home safely :thumbup:

EDIT: Radio Delete truck ~ no antenna & has DIN radio block off plate ~ !?!

[fullchoke]

I found out a bit more about it today. It was used in an area that was inaccessible and had to be barged out, it was captive by only a few miles of road. Plus only used during the summer. Battery sounded bad. It doesn't sound like it could have the miles listed. The Odometer may be right after all. Fingers are crossed.

[fullchoke]

Went and got the truck yesterday. I think the roads it was on were mostly dirt. It is very dusty, but not rusty. Has some bondo repairs on the outside bed sides and tailgate, but the bed itself looks pretty much unused. It started with a jump and drove up on the trailer.
Do these trucks have any problems that I should look for? My son said the engine moved a lot when it initially started and until the idle smoothed out. I will check the motor mounts 1st.
The window cranks are missing the handle. Any easy solution to this? The seat seems comfortable in the short time I was in it. I had a Ford Courier that was a back breaker, but you find that out after a little ride.
And the little air deflector under the front bumper is flimsy and quite mangled.

Thanks

[tortron]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WINDOW-CRANK-BLUE-FIT-86-96-MITSUBISHI-L200-ME-MF-MG-MH-MJ-CHAMP-K14-TRITON-UTE/263307377748?epid=22008919527&hash=item3d4e57bc54:g:NfQAAOSwg3tar1G9


window cranks available new out of Thailand


Generally you just want to get up to date on the maintenance if needed. All mitsis had an issue with the heads going soft/cracking, but you dont need to worry about that till it becomes a problem

[fullchoke]

I have asked for the maintenance records, but I'll be changing oil and filter and lubing the chassis anyway. I asked a guy I have known for many years that has a 1993 Toyota he bought new. It has 468k now and still on the same engine and no rebuild, but he changes the oil every 2k.

[tortron]

Yeah, i havd a 1948 commer superpoise on its original engine, original chrome bores. It never had an oil filter, but came with a stack of records for decades of work.

[fullchoke]

The problem that I don't have to worry about until it becomes a problem is a problem before I have even taken the truck off the trailer.
When we loaded the truck my son said it made a lot of white smoke. I thought it was only condensation he was seeing. It was raining at the time and we didn't go any further. Now that it is home. I changed the oil which was a light milky muddy brown... not a good sign. So these engines have cracked head problems? If that is what is expected then I shouldn't figure on a head gasket solution. Please fill me in on this, especially if the head is repairable or not. I'm going to need to figure out where it will need to be parked and if I should start on the repair before I have what is needed to complete it. I have no idea right now what is available. It is supposed to be a G54b engine.
Thanks

[tortron]

its entirely possible that the oil has moisture in it from lots of short runs, never getting the engine warm enough to boil off the condensation inside.

What you should do is - check for oil in the cooling system
compression check
if possible - a leak down test and cooling system pressure test

depending on the results of those
- engine is fine, its just condensation from short runs (on an island right, i wonder if they would turn it off each time, or leave it at idle for hours, probably turning it on and off if petrol)

- engine is not fine
- pull head off and inspect the head gasket. Send head for crack and hardness testing before rebuilding it
might come back ok, might come back no good, hard to say

[fullchoke]

When I saw the white film on the engine oil that was drained I hoped it was from condensation, because I was told it was not started much and not at all in the last month. Smelling the smoke it has a bitter odor, it is not condensation. The cloud is very slow to dissipate, not like condensation coming from the tailpipe. Is it advisable to just buy a new head? I don't how true it is but online says they crack because of the jet valve. Non jet valve heads are available on ebay. My thoughts are to get everything in hand before I start. There is definitely a problem. I checked the coolant level and it was out of sight, another bad sign.
Thanks

[fullchoke]

Forgot to add it misses badly when 1st started but pulls out of that shortly after that and runs smooth. Especially smooth when reved some.

[xboxrox]

Troubleshooting to identify problems 1st before $pending unecessarily is time well $pent -- I' m thinking warm engine to full operating temp then change engine oil (cheap oil) & oil filter -- next with cold engine drain coolant & install new thermostat (OEM Mitsubishi stat is available) refill with premixed 50/50 coolant -- now tests can be accurately performed -- rent this for free ---> http://https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/evertough-4771/tools---equipment-16488/rental-tools-16837/rental-tools--engine---clutch-19166/2a06ea1d698c/rental-tools-evertough-gas-engine-combustion-leak-tester/67094/4700290


Test for leaking head gasket /cracked head: http://https://youtu.be/QA7KVQq9vKA

If engine misses too much to run or reach operating temp then you need to remove all spark plugs & check each one for spark -- I used a remote starter switch with ignition key ON -- getting the battery fully charged and load tested for free @ OReillys is what I did (batt acts ok even tho OReillys said it failed the load test -- they said maybe it had a weak cell!!!) Battery so far works good -- need a fully charged battery to properly test for spark ORANGE color spark works ok on my truck -- I chased the head's spark plug threads with a 14mm thread chaser coated with anti seize compound -- then I cleaned the head's threads & used antiseize to install new spark plugs --

My truck had white smoke when 1st purchased a bottle of Barrs Stop Leak fixed it !!!!

$pend Less & Enjoy Wrenching & your new TOY
:thumbup:

[xboxrox]

The rubber diaphragms, O rings etc are 30+ years OLD on your truck's carburetor (most likely original carb on the eng???) It will not run smoothly or like new with rotten cracked broken split screwed up deteriorated carburetor parts --

EDIT: Don't trust the gasoline in the fuel tank to be fresh clean dry -- drain it or burn it up driving & put fresh gas new fuel filter too --

USE THIS IT REALLY HELPS https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/cataclean-5613/chemicals---fluids-16461/maintenance-chemicals-16867/fuel-system-16569/fuel-treatment-17696/dfc494044694/mr-gasket-cataclean-16-ounce-fuel-additive/120007/5587420

[fullchoke]

The links didn't work, so I don't know what you had in mind. I will try the stop leak, I like that idea, can't hurt. The radiator does hold pressure for hours or more, and was down about a quart. I did change the oll and filter. I never got the truck to full operating temp. It did get to the low side of the normal range. I filled the gas tank on my way home, it took 5.5 gallons. How big is the tank? What would happen if diesel was put in instead of gas? I don't think that happened. I'm in Oregon so we don't pump our own. My pickup is diesel... I told the attendant to fill the Ram 50 with reg. gas and he said he did. Which brings the question what would happen if 5.5 gal diesel is mixed to make a full tank?

[xboxrox]

It would not run with that much diesel :thumbdown: I did'nt like buying gas in Oregon :rolleyes:

I sound bossy on paper but in real life I am a Saint :grin: so here is my best advice for getting your truck running with safety, economy & dependaility in mind (assuming your truck is not California emissions..?)

1) Dump the old gas, install a new fuel filter & add no more than 1/4 tank of 87 octane gas
2) Charge & load test the battery (free @ O'Reilly's)
3) Change the engine oil & install new oil filter ( done, good job sir...)
4) Dump the old coolant, install new thermostat (Mitsubishi brand is best) install new premixed 50/50 coolant
EDIT: Flush cooling system with flush product as well & use only premade coolant, don't use regular water
5) Install 4 new NGK spark plugs (compression tester is free @ O'Reilly's) test fire each new plug on it's wire, remove all crud from head thread holes & use anti seize (a remote starter switch with ingition key ON = easy job)
6) Use combustion leak tester (free @ O'Reilly's) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0U8Iyf0kk4
7) Easy Fix of leaking head gasket https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL9QjN7AcW8
8) I think my brother used Barrs Leaks best product when he did step 7 above, about $12..?
9) My truck came with Hercules Terra Trac A/T tires (THE BEST TIRE I EVER DROVE ON, PERIOD..!!!)
10) Buy a new set of tires with the money you saved by not buying a new cylinder head..?
11) Hercules tires are not sold in Hawaii (DANG IT) my truck lost 2MPG & rides rough & noisy on BF Goodrich tires
12) Tire Comparison Calculator https://tiresize.com/comparison/
13) Terra Trac II A/T tires are available in 215/70-16 my truck came with 205/75-15..? Heck I can't remember..?
14) THE BEST TIRE IMHO https://www.herculestire.com/tire-details/Hercules/Terra-Trac-AT-II

I'm too tired to continue ~ best of luck & have fun fixing your neat truck ~ it should run 65MPH & get 20+MPG
Aloha --
George

[xboxrox]

1 bottle CATACLEAN added to 1/4 full gas tank & drive it on the freeway 35 miles or until empty -- it will help A LOT -- drain out the old gas & take it to a waste disposal station & install a new fuel filter --
:thumbup:

CHECK THIS OUT ~ https://jalopnik.com/here-s-exactly-what-it-cost-to-buy-and-rebuild-an-old-t-1795160777

[fullchoke]

Thanks guys for the pointers. I wish I knew how big the gas tank is, because the 5.5 gal. of fresh gas that was put in it should have freshened up what was in there.The gas that was in there should be less than 3mo.'s old and with the new gas it should be good enough.
The truck had new tires put on it in July so it is good there. I don't think they would have done that if they intended on disposing of it, so I think it was used for a while after that. The truck was in a dry climate, and only used in the summer on top of that so there is no rust.
I watched the You tube videos and I will try that process. I'm not sure the truck will run on 3 cyl for hours but will see. That is if I can determine which cylinder is leaking.
I always buy the concentrate anti-freeze, because I'm cheap. Distilled water is pennies per gal and I don't mind mixing. I just pour it in and let the engine do the mixing.

Thanks again,
Greg

[fullchoke]

I pulled out the spark plugs to see if I could tell, which cyl. might be leaking. #1 & 3 looked to be burning the best. Light brown and no deposits. #2 was noticeably whiter and #4 was quite a bit darker on the insulator.
Since nothing was conclusive I cranked it to see if anything came out with all the plugs out....nothing.
I used a compression tester and these are the readings. The low reading on each cylinder is:
#1-145
#2-140
#3-120
#4-155
The odd thing is the spark plug in #3 looks the best, but being it is the lowest compression. I will try to treat that cylinder. I don't know how old these spark plugs are.
I'm going to put in new antifreeze and Steel Seal (if I can find it) and follow the online suggestions.
Any ideas please let me know.
Thanks

[FMS88]

The tank on as 2wd short bed truck is just under 14 gal. The long bed and extended cab trucks have 18gal tanks.
It does sound like coolant is leaking into one or more cylinders. Try this: run it long enough to pressurized the cooling system (10-15 min) and it smooths out. Let it sit overnight then start it for just a few seconds. Remove the spark plugs and look for ones that are very wet. If not sure or more than one is wet, position a piece of cardboard over all four plug holes. Turn it over a number of revolutions then check the cardboard for fluid ejected from the cylinder(s). This test worked for me revealing #4 had a coolant leak.
If you find coolant is leaking into a cylinder and you need to run the engine or drive it, loosen the radiator cap after each shutdown. This will relieve the cooling system pressure and reduce the amount of coolant that will seep into the cylinder. Just use a towel over the cap so it catches anything that sprays out rather than on you.
Good luck

[xboxrox]

I pulled out the spark plugs to see if I could tell, which cyl. might be leaking. #1 & 3 looked to be burning the best. Light brown and no deposits. #2 was noticeably whiter and #4 was quite a bit darker on the insulator.
Since nothing was conclusive I cranked it to see if anything came out with all the plugs out....nothing.
I used a compression tester and these are the readings. The low reading on each cylinder is:
#1-145
#2-140
#3-120
#4-155
The odd thing is the spark plug in #3 looks the best, but being it is the lowest compression. I will try to treat that cylinder. I don't know how old these spark plugs are.
I'm going to put in new antifreeze and Steel Seal (if I can find it) and follow the online suggestions.
Any ideas please let me know.
Thanks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDuGeQnMOzk <----- DO IT

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/head-gasket-blown-test <----- DO IT


OK, you asked for it LOL :thumbup: I wished I had a NDT liquid penetrant test kit (cleaner dye developer) to check the head for cracks -------

Maybe O'Reilly's rents this tool for fully refundable deposit (did you really do this test as tortron suggested..?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDuGeQnMOzk

DO THESE LINK STEPS FOR SURE (free tools @ O'Reilly's) THEY SAY "BLUE DEVIL" is the possible best fix @ AMAZON
https://www.2carpros.com/articles/head-gasket-blown-test

So, a spark plug that shows heavy whitish to brown deposits may indicate a coolant leak. This type of problem will only get worse and lead to even greater problems if the leak isn't fixed. Coolant makes a lousy lubricant and can cause piston ring; cylinder and bearing damage if it gets into a cylinder or the crankcase.

If you have an oil leak, it will be oil fouled. If it is a coolant leak (more likely) your spark plug will be very clean. The coolant literally boils off any dirt and deposits off the spark plug, valves, and piston.

Yes to the above about coolant leaks. A cyl that has had coolant run through it will often have a very clean piston top, the others will be black/sooty in color and have carbon deposits on them.

From Dodge Forum: https://www.turbododge.com/threads/reading-spark-plugs-and-troubleshooting-guide.624186/ <---- PLEASE LOOK AT THE SPARK PLUG PHOTOS

My 1986 Ram50 Owners Manual Booklet (specifications page) says 2.0L engine fuel tank 14 gallons & 18 gallon is optional AND 2.6L engine fuel tank 18 gallons... Do 2nd Gen trucks have completely different fuel tanks I dunno..?

Please (for all of us trying to help here) try using a coolant leak fix product before yanking the head & buying parts ~ that way, if it fixes it good enuff, you can thank all of us here (ALSO PLEASE follow the directions on the label to the letter I.O.W. VERBATIM COMPLIANCE) That means if the stop leak product says "for best results" drain old coolant & flush the system & refill with new 50/50 premix and drive 30 miles at 60MPH or faster THEN DO IT..!)

Did ya think to squirt oil in the cylinders on 2nd round of compression testing..? I did not think, I just used a can of fogging oil spray on the one round of compression testing that I did and my results are posted here somewhere at MR50 ~ I never tested without using oil, duh..! I think my results 3 cylinders @ 165PSI and 1 @ 135 or 145PSI

I'm thinking that UNLESS your truck has an obvious gross coolant, oil, engine, transmission, differential or other type of leak OR A BRAKE leak or brake problem or loud as heck knocking sounds THEN it needs to be outfitted with good fuel & new fuel filter & good engine oil & new filter & new air filters 2each & new good coolant & a flushed clean cooling system & new spark plugs that test fired sat on their respective plug wires & ignition initial, vacuum, centrifical advances all tested & adjusted... THEN WHAT YOUR TRUCK NEEDS IS TO BE STARTED WARMED UP (PER THE STOP LEAK PRODUCT INSTRUCTIONS) AND TAKEN OUT ON THE FREEWAY TO A SPEED THAT GETS THE CARBURETOR OUT OF THE IDLE CIRCUIT (The main metering circuit comes into action above fast idle, as airflow through the venturi increases)

Ya gotta get your truck on a good run with engine RPM above 2,000 or more RPM for a good long cruise (25 miles..? at least..?) Try finding an uphill grade and gun it in whatever gear keeps RPM above 2,000 RPM ~ hopefully you also have new fuel with no more than 1/4 tank and you added a bottle or TWO bottles of CATACLEAN (available @ O'Reilly's) then I think your truck has a good fighting chance of not needing major repairs ~ all you can do is try, right..?

Hope you have major success to report & we love photos :thumbup:
P.S. Keep an eagle eye on the gauges ~ they work, right..?
P.P.S. I did one thing different when I took my truck out on the freeway ~ I added 1 qt of Rislone (?) to flush the engine oil to fix noisy tappets and it worked it fixed them ~ then I changed the oil & filter right after the drive...
P.P.P.S. you really should really really should REALLY SHOULD have a new thermostat in your truck right after you flush the cooling system..! YEAH REALLY
:grin:

[fullchoke]

I'm going to use K-Seal. It is a Napa product. I looked for Steel Seal, but I think I would need to order it through the mail. The directions call for driving it if possible, and idle it for a half hour if not. Since this is a former Gov't vehicle and has no license plate, I will try the idling it routine. The directions don't call for removing the suspected cylinder's spark plug. Only adding product and running it. For all I know more than 1 cylinder is leaking, because 2 plugs looked cleaner than expected. I did drain the coolant and bought a new thermostat. So I plan on leaving the K-Seal in there long term, if it works.
Thanks

[xboxrox]

I'm going to use K-Seal. It is a Napa product. I looked for Steel Seal, but I think I would need to order it through the mail. The directions call for driving it if possible, and idle it for a half hour if not. Since this is a former Gov't vehicle and has no license plate, I will try the idling it routine. The directions don't call for removing the suspected cylinder's spark plug. Only adding product and running it. For all I know more than 1 cylinder is leaking, because 2 plugs looked cleaner than expected. I did drain the coolant and bought a new thermostat. So I plan on leaving the K-Seal in there long term, if it works.
Thanks

That's sounds like a great plan ~ I only wish you had posted that you flushed the cooling system too ~ if it's not too late DO IT before putting in the K-Seal... I looked down the radiator cap hole into my radiator before & after doing the flush with Prestone Flush Cleaner $5.00 AND I'll be darn it really worked... All of the waterway passage slots were clean & open not like before the flush when they were plugged with crud... It worked..!

The reasons I started using 50/50 premix coolant: (I never did before & never got flu shots either NOW I do both 50/50 & get flu shots)
1) Laziness is the mother of invention ~ it's so easy, just open & pour ~ no farting around mixing stuff or driving around searching for distilled H2O
2) If the only coolant you put in the radiator & OF tank is 50/50 then the cooling system will always be 50/50 mix, nothing more, nothing less..!

Going to post in Fusible Link Now
Hope K-Seal works with 2 bottles or less (Flushing might remove the K-Seal & make the head leak again..? Flush it first...) K-Seal might block off water passages that are partially already blocked with crud & scum.
Best of Luck --
George

[fullchoke]

I gave it the treatment on the driveway today and the tailpipe cleared up. That is the good part, the bad is steam is coming off the rear of the engine, between the back of the head and the firewall. The top of the transmission looks wet, which I expect that coolant is the cause. I would have let the engine continue to run, but it overheated. The reason for the overheating is probably the root of the problem. Do these engines run hot? There is no fan shroud on the radiator, but it didn't run (at idle) more than 15-20 minutes and the temp outside is about 45. The radiator is tiny, so maybe it needs a shroud, but if I was stuck in traffic on a hot summer day, I think it would overheat quickly. There must be something else to this issue. The radiator was very hot, and when it was cold, water would rise in the radiator when I cranked the starter. I think the water pump is working, it isn't leaking. Possibly a radiator hose is bad internally, but they do look good on the outside. When I shut off the engine and was listening to it rumble. I saw coolant along the edge of the head, I think this truck was hot quite a few times before. Possibly/probably the radiator is clogged, but why is the shroud missing, which leads me to believe the radiator has been removed in the past. I think removing the radiator is my next step unless somebody has a better idea.
When the smoke cleared the engine did run very smooth.
I'm not buying a new head yet, but if I do need to buy one which one of the 3 styles I see mentioned is best?
Any suggestions on where to find a fan shroud besides a wrecking yard? and which years cross to my 1987.
While I was waiting for the engine to heat up, I cleaned out the packed in dirt and pine needles behind the door hinges. The passenger side was packed almost to the top hinge. It looks like a common rust point if that gets left in there too long.

Thanks

[fullchoke]

I didn't flush it but I wish I did now. Looking in the radiator from the top, it looks clean... no deposits.

[geezer101]

I would try the following - check all of the hoses at the back of the engine including the hard line that runs from the back of the water pump. The hard line can develop pin holes in it especially at the elbows and the spots where the hoses clamp onto it. Check head bolt tension? If the head has been off and it wasn't re-torqued after a run in, the bolt torque could be the issue. Check the thermostat - it might be jammed partially closed. And now my favourite - get rid of the factory clutch fan. An electric thermofan is far more efficient than the sketchy mechanical fan. There are too many benefits to running an electric fan not to install one.

Unless the head has a serious crack in it, I doubt you'd be seeing this kind of external coolant leak (not saying it CAN'T happen though) The 4G64 heads had been known to warp so badly from overheating the cams have snapped in half. We've seen posts here enough times to confirm it does happen. This is one of those jobs where you won't know what the issue is until you remove the head (unless it was a bad hose or hard line and you've spotted it) My advice is don't mill a warped head to true it up (especially these heads) I always recommend finding a good machine shop that will bake and press heads straight as cam beds can go out of alignment and cause serious oil pressure and wear issues.

[xboxrox]

Thanks for the update fullchoke ~
geezer is right you need to verify that none of the coolant lines or hoses are leaking ~ I think OEM trucks came with bronze radiators & no shroud ~ my truck 2.6L Gen1 with original clutch fan original brass Made-in-Japan radiator NO shroud does not overheat even in heavy traffic in Hawaii summer weather ~ the carburetor also has coolant hoses (or does it on Gen2 truck?) is your radiator all bronze or aluminum with plastic tanks? Do Gen2 trucks come with bronze or aluminum radiators? Have you tested the coolant for combustion gases? Did you pressure test the cooling system? BUY & INSTALL A NEW RADIATOR CAP ~ sad, but geezer is right if all is well elsewhere then you should check the head bolts for proper torque ~ when you changed the thermostat did the parts look clean or dirty with crud gunk etc ~ if dirty then your really should flush the cooling system with heater on high heat ~ say geezer, how do you check a radiator to make sure it's not plugged up with dirt..? Any flow testing for that..? In 45°F weather the engine should not overheat ~ there is a way to test the clutch fan to make sure it works ~ google it
Will Say A Prayer
George
P.S. If you check test 'n exhaust all possibilities for the problem and still no fix then you won't feel bad spending a grand or so or more fixing something you simply overlooked ~ as far as getting another head I dunno which one to get except I would get another head with warranty 'n just bolt the sucker on 'n go ~ PLEASE flush the cooling system before installing a new head
Honestly -- Praying
George
P.S. If you get the coolant leaks fixed -- bear in mind that ignition timing too far advanced can cause engine to run hot maybe even overheat ~ someday be sure to use a timing light to check initial timing & advancing of both vacuum and centrifigal advances ~

[FMS88]

In an earlier post you mentioned the truck is supposed to have a 2.6L (G54B) with auto. If so and you don't find an external leak, anticipate a replacement head in your future and look for one without jet valves. The G54B head is notorious for cracking even after overheating just once or twice.
Regarding the fan shroud, it's not standard on all trucks. I've only seen them on trucks with A/C, so it may be exclusive to that option. Junk yards will be the best source. Besides other Mits/Ram50 trucks, the shrouds on 1st Gen dodge Raiders and Mits Monteros will fit assuming you have the G54B engine and 23.5" wide radiator. Some minor modifications may be needed so bring a tape measure to assess their applicability and adaptability. The radiators for the 2.0L trucks are almost 5" narrower. I don't know what other vehicles have shrouds that might fit, but other site members may know or have suggestions.

Edit: This site lists as available both the upper and lower portions of the radiator shroud, but you'll pay a tidy sum:
https://www.mitsubishidirectparts.com/v-1987-mitsubishi-mighty-max--sport--2-6l-l4-gas/cooling-system--fan

Best to find out why it's loosing coolant and overheating first. The lack of a shroud isn't the reason it's overheating.

[geezer101]

A clogged radiator isn't something that is that easily tested. I've found that plastic/alloy radiators aren't as prone to clogging as bronze/copper (I think it's a metallurgy thing...?:shrug:) but are more prone to the plastic tanks cracking or a tank seal failing. A temperature probe gun will identify cold spots on the radiator cores which would indicate no or low coolant flow. Then there's the epidermal reaction test - touch it and see if you feel if you've got cold spots in it somewhere (only for the brave - or slightly impaired :thumbup: BE WARNED - a radiator at full operating temperature generates enough radiant heat to blister your arm in seconds) The shroud will impact on cooling efficiency but not cause it to overheat as the fan isn't able to draw air through the whole face of the radiator. As xbox pointed out, an overly aggressive engine tune will make it run hot - might not be the root cause but if you have fault A+B and maybe a C in there somewhere then the cumulative effect will be a serious overheating issue. The external coolant leak will be the key in solving this riddle.

*4G64 - is it supposed to have jet valves? (I'm asking because...I don't know :slap:) I know injected G62B and G63B engines had them (FWD) Maybe someone botched a head gasket on it and it has been pinched or folded on a corner - never discount that some monkey with poseable thumbs has been in there before and you've simply been landed the task of undoing their brilliant work...

[xboxrox]

poseable :lmao: I had to Google, def

[fullchoke]

I don't think the head has been removed in the recent past, judging by the accumulated dirt covering the head and block.
When the engine was running it looked like the steam leak between the head and firewall was under pressure. The firewall was wet, and so is the transmission below it.
That is good to know about the shroud, because I can see where it would be attached. The fan runs but at idle it doesn't run very fast. I would say it doesn't pull any air through the radiator. Especially since all the while it was idling the hood was up. I have never had overheating with the hood up as an issue with any other vehicle I've owned... that's why I asked if these engines run hot.
The old thermostat had a thin brown coating on it that made me wonder if a sealer was used before, but not what I would call deposits. I have a temp gun somewhere, I will get that involved.
I like the idea of electric fans and made an offer on 2 8" fans on Ebay. Will see where that goes, but I like 2 where I can run 1 automatically and the other manually because the alternator looks small on the truck, and I'm concerned about amp draw.
I think this head has jet valves, but I have not heard of them before and don't know what they do or look like.
Thanks

[fullchoke]

I went out and ran it at idle for an hour. It didn't over heat, but it was near the high line of the normal range. It was not rising. The temp today was about the same, only a couple degrees cooler. The truck was smoking white again out the tailpipe at start up, but less than before the treatment and that went away once the engine got warm. I never saw any steam at the back of the engine. I put about a pint of water in the radiator and in the reservoir. They were full when I started yesterday and the reservoir overflowed a little when I shut it off yesterday, but was empty at start up today. I don't know why it acted differently today. The only thing I can think of is there was a air lock somewhere yesterday. The truck is nosed downhill some. I'm going to level it out and try it again tomorrow. Using the infrared temp meter.... it showed about 350-360 between 2 and 3 and 3 and 4. About 100 less between 1&2. The oil filter showed 250. Even after an hour of idling my hand would get a damp feeling from the exhaust. I don't normally check this sort of thing, but I don't think that should happen. I did not see smoke. I did not see any coolant leaks today. Your thoughts are appreciated.

[tortron]

H20 is a major component of combustion gas. Temperature difference between front and rear of head is pretty normal for most engines just due to how the oil and water flows through

[FMS88]

Repeat your test of today several times or more. At the start of each test, top off the radiator and fill the overflow bottle about half way. Run it until hot then let it sit overnight. Top off as needed before each subsequent test. This should purge any air pockets in the system. If the system is holding, you should quickly reach a point where topping off is no longer necessary. Keep an eye on the temp gauge and for leaks at the back of the engine.

[xboxrox]

Making GOOD progress fullchoke ~
1) test fan clutch on cold engine spin fan by hand it should not rotate much 2 or 3 revolutions not 8 or 10
2) test fan clutch on hot engine use a rolled up magazine to stop the fan if it stops rotating easily then the clutch is bad if it keeps spinning while trying to stop it then its good
3) Install a new radiator cap
NOTE: auto parts stores carry the fan clutch just bolt on the new one like this: https://youtu.be/S5kuYkcXcUE
GOOD LUCK :thumbup:

[fullchoke]

The 1st test where it overheated, I started the engine and waited with my hand on the upper hose for some warm water to pass through. It was staying cold. I checked the temp gauge on the dash and it was showing the engine had a temperature on the high side of normal. I checked the lower hose and it was very hot, too hot to handle. The upper hose was only starting to get warm. I took another look at the dash gauge and it was higher. I tried reving the engine some and the gauge moved immediately into the red and I shut it off. It was like the thermostat was in backwards but it was not, and I doubt it would fit anyway. That is when I thought I had an air lock. I will keep repeating the test.

[xboxrox]

Getting better the radiator top hose should get hot when the stat opens sending hot coolant into the radiator ~ truck sits nose down (?) that can cause trapped air in the cooling system ~ raise the truck front a little above level to help purge air out of the cooling system
DO THIS: https://rustyautos.com/top-radiator-hose-supposed-to-be-hot/#:~:text=Is%20top%20hose%20supposed%20to,after%20t he%20thermostat%20has%20opened.

[fullchoke]

http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=26014&stc=1

I ran the test today and the truck calmed down more. Before startup I could see coolant in the radiator, but the reservoir was empty. The engine warmed up and ran smooth. I took a picture of the dash gauge. It climbed slightly after the picture, and after I reved it up it came down slightly. During the 1st test I tried the same thing and it sent the needle into the red immediately and I had to shut it down. I think I only had condensation out the tailpipe at startup and no vapor was noticed at the back of the engine or anywhere else. I feel good about the progress being made. I will do it again tomorrow. Thanks for all the advise.

[fullchoke]

I'm going to turn the truck around tomorrow so the nose is up a little, since trapped air may still be a factor.

[Lil Red]

I noticed my truck was running warm the other day. I have been working on cars with my dad since a early age I pulled the cap off carefully to look in the radiator I could see the coolant movement but the coolant wasn’t full. Look inside the radiator to see if you have flow. No flow then you know. Once the thermostat opens you will be able to see the water flowing through the radiator. Not a pro but I hope this helps. Good luck!

[fullchoke]

I believe I have all of the air purged from the radiator. It is full in the radiator and at the full line when cold in the reservoir. It also runs at the normal temp, so I think I'm good, as I don't see any leaks anywhere or smoke at the tail pipe.
I would say that if you have the cap off your radiator while your engine is running and it is not puking out coolant you are low. Mine will do this as soon as I start the engine when it is cold, even when I was low on coolant. That is before the thermostat opens. Once the thermostat opens there is too much heat and pressure to open it. I just felt the radiator hoses to know it was circulating.
I wish my truck had a manual choke. I'm still learning/searching for a good starting routine. It seems to start and die a lot. The last time I tried pushing the throttle pedal to the floor once and it did start and run without stalling, but I need to try this a few more times. It starts but idles rough in the 1st minute. I can live with that rough cold idle, I don't like cranking it over and over with the start and die routine.
The other thing I find different is if I tap the throttle and rev it, it doesn't immediately fall back to idle. It fall back more slowly than I would expect. All vehicles are different, but wondered if this is a quirk of the carburetion on this truck.
Thanks

[tortron]

An auto choke should work enough to start it off the key and not worry about pumping it or playing with the throttle.
(Tho I think they suck and much prefer a cable choke)
Possibly there's a sticky linkage, the carb needs cleaning out and tuning of mix and idle. Or possibly the autochoke mechanism has worn out (iirc the one in your carb is a bimetallic spring, might have deformed over time, not sure if you can bend them in these carbs, that may be an option)

I would start the truck up and closely watch what the carb is doing

[tortron]

26033
26034

How to check the choke is operating here

[xboxrox]

fullchoke, thanks for the feedback & congrats getting your truck running ~ :thumbup:

Member 85Ram50 posted that his truck starts good by pushing the gas pedal WOT once then start ~ seems my truck is starting good that way too on 1st start of a cold engine ~ warm/hot engine I just turn the key which usually works good but sometimes I gradually press the throttle open if it does not start right away, it works ok this way...

The carburetors on these trucks are wired to an ECU nothing simple about it & after 30+ years of use, if not already rebuilt they are most likely way overdue for a rebuild (buying a rebuilt is much faster & easier & most likely cheaper than DIY rebuild ~ been there 'n done that)

The rubber parts begin to fail by cracking splitting getting rotten from old age 'n heat ~ the carb has a few rubber diaphragms & I think they affect pulling off the choke & easing the throttle back to idle (not sure Gen2 my truck is Gen1 Mikuni carb) vacuum can't operate a leaking rotten split cracked diaphragm & the distributor has a vaccum advance diaphragm too (it will most likely be rotten too)

fullchoke, I know you hope that your truck is very low miles which it could be BUT it is still 30+ years aged to perfection just like all the others :(

IMHO: The cheapest, fastest, easiest, smog legal way to get your truck up & running like almost new is bolting on a rebuilt OEM carburetor :thumbup:

IMHO: If legal in your state, modify your truck to run on a genuine Weber carburetor ~ I believe they are mechanical no ECU involved & manual choke ~ however, modifying anything is rarely if ever the fastest simplest cheapest easiest way to do business; especially when rebuilt warrantied parts for your truck are just a phone call away ~ even a repair shop will do the work for you ~ I doubt you can find a shop or be willing to pay a shop the prices they could want to modify your truck from it's OEM configuration...

Anyone (?) am I wrong in thinking that a Weber carburetor will NOT improve MPG beyond what a properly tuned good working order Mikuni will do?

Final Thought: I might do a Weber conversion if operating the vehicle in a no smog law state like (Hawaii :)) but not until I have tried to get it to run properly using original parts & configuration ~ as a last resort I would modify my truck to keep it running just to avoid paying $40,000.00 to $130,000.00 for a new truck here in paradise (Hawaii :shakehead:) I'm old on fixed income, food rent & medicine is more important than any new truck...

Thanks for listening to me rant & blab out loud :P anxious to know your decisions fullchoke, others will chime in to help you as well...
Aloha -- George

[SubGothius]

Since completing a Weber swap on my '87 2.6L, I'm getting better fuel economy and performance than the stock Mikuni ever gave me, even when I first bought the truck in supposedly good tune (seller had just passed emissions prior to sale). Once I got the jetting right, the Weber also passed emissions just fine.

The Weber 32/36 DG-series -- and perhaps to a somewhat lesser degree the older DF-series the DG was derived from in mirror image -- is a relatively recent design (as carbs go) engineered for inherent efficiency and low emissions as-is, whereas the Mikuni was based on a relatively ancient design originally meant for performance, to which they kludged in a bunch of mods and electronically controlled gizmos to help it do better with efficiency and emissions.

Mind you, the related Weber 38 DGAS won't be as efficient, simply because it's got larger barrels that both open simultaneously, whereas the 32/36 is progressive, using only the more efficient 32mm primary barrel alone until you really step on it to open the 36mm secondary barrel. The 38 really only offers a significant performance advantage at high RPM with a tuned/built engine that can take advantage of the freer breathing.

Would an as-new Mikuni and ECU and all their related gizmos run as efficiently as the Weber or better? Maybe, but it may also be a tall order expecting all of that to maintain "as-new" functionality for the long haul. The Weber eliminates a LOT of complexity and potential failure points while delivering as good if not better emissions, economy and performance. If your area doesn't require emissions inspection with all original-spec equipment (e.g., mine only checks for a cat, good gas cap, and secondary air induction), I'd say doing the Weber swap is a no-brainer.

Just make sure you get a genuine Weber! Look for a rough/dull finish (not smooth/shiny), Weber name/logo and "Made in Spain" cast right into the body (not a decal or ink stamp), and usually a translucent off-white electric choke cover (not black, tho' some used carbs can have these swapped or upgraded from a water choke, so it's not a dead giveaway).

[fullchoke]

An update on my little truck.... I'm no longer adding coolant after a warm up, so I believe all the air has been purged. It also doesn't overheat, so it must have been the trapped air. It doesn't smoke when it's warmed up, but I think it may when it is 1st started. It seems like there is more than the normal condensation, and there is a faint smell like before the sealer was used. I haven't taken it out on the road yet, but I have been to the u-pull-it, and picked up a good tailgate handle, a hood cable, for the dangling one with the broken mount. I also got a glove box latch from a 94 Mighty Max, but that doesn't fit. I also got a fan shroud from the mighty max it was a V6. It looks like it will fit, but I don't think I will use it unless I need it. I don't like the window crank handles on my truck. They don't have the rotating portion on the handle and think it could have been left off, being the base model is what I have. I'm wondering if there was a cover on the trans hump under the dash on the base model. It looks like something is missing there with the brackets uncovered. I forgot to get the one that was on the truck in the wrecking yard. It had a bed liner too, that I'm considering. I looked at the date on my truck and it was delivered to the USAF 09/86. When I get some sunny weather I'll take some pictures of it. I think it's name in the US park service was "Huck". I hope I heard them right.lol
If I do decide to change out the carb, the Weber sounds like the way to go. Thanks

[xboxrox]

Hello fullchoke :thumbup:

[FMS88]

You've made good headway. Without removing the radiator cap, periodically check the coolant level in the overflow tank when the engine is cold. If the level doesn't decrease, the coolant system is tight. Same with the oil level. A puff of smoke at start up is an indicator of worn or (34 yr) old valve stem seals. But if you don't need to add oil more than 2-3 times between changes, the seals can wait.

[xboxrox]

You've made good headway. Without removing the radiator cap, periodically check the coolant level in the overflow tank when the engine is cold. If the level doesn't decrease, the coolant system is tight. Same with the oil level. A puff of smoke at start up is an indicator of worn or (34 yr) old valve stem seals. But if you don't need to add oil more than 2-3 times between changes, the seals can wait.

I am really happy your truck is being well cared for & Loved ~ the Lucky Truck has found a Good Home

Speaking of oil seals, the front crankshaft oil seal is leaking worse 'n worse on my 86 2.6L ~ have ordered seal remove/install tools ~ at another thread (sticky of basics to do/Any ideas?) camoit points out that the PCV valve is important coz if it's sticking or dirty it can cause pressure in the crankcase & cause the crankshaft front oil seal to leak ~ I bet it happened on my engine ~ coz, when I checked & changed the PCV valve the old PCV was filthy nasty 'n sticking ~ the engine idled much smoother with the new PCV valve...

Some MR50 members are just plain pros, others are just Mitsu experienced, others are just kind 'n share info, parts, ideas; no doubt every MR50 member contributes, even if they just ask questions, need help or make trouble ~

Listen Carefully when these Pros comment ~ :skier:

FSM88
camoit
geezer
claych
SubGothius
pennyman
85Ram50
Brad
tortron
------------
so many more but these names come to mind quickly