How to determine???

[85Ram50]

You may have seen my starting issues thread http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/8226-Starting-issues
So the starter I put the new solenoid on is not turning the motor over every time, or catching a bit then just spinning the pinion drive. The brushes were more than half there when I cleaned it.

Is there a way to determine of it is the starter or my flexplate ring gear without having to remove the trans?

[geezer101]

Take the transmission cover plate off from under the engine and have a look at the condition of the ring gear teeth. I think the problem is related to the starter motor itself (or the choice of starter motor) Auto and manual starters aren't interchangeable and there are different starter motors for different generations of engines. Bench test the starter motor - watch what it's doing (or not doing...) If it throws out and spins every time during the bench test, there's a problem with either a lead or connection. This issue has been haunting you for ages :shakehead:

[85Ram50]

Fingers crossed you are right. I dread doing a flex plate. This is a new problem since it gave me grief starting.

[85Ram50]

I have pictures. More than 50% of the ring gear has shiny rounded edges. I'm thinking that is the problem. There is a section of it that is not rounded over and not shiny. I only added two pics.

I did not remove the starter. When I installed it (it is a manual starter) the pinion gear had no visible wear or rounding over on it.

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Edit- Duh forgot to ask, does this look like the problem or should I focus on the starter still? I have a feeling letting that new solenoid get loose, and the lesser kick out it gave to the pinion gear, caused this problem.

[85Ram50]

When I take out the Transmission will I have to replace the U joints? Or will I be able to remove the Center Yoke attaching nut w/o having to remove the U joint? I know I replaced them a long time ago around when I replaced the center bearing and put in a new clutch. I can't remember if I had to or chose to because of the age of the thing.

I am getting a new starter and a new flywheel and putting in a new clutch I have had sitting around.

Edit- I figured I will disconnect the four bolts at the differential them the two on the center bearing mount and it should pull back easily. Got new starter handed in the red one as core. I also took out the starter I have in there. I need a throwout bearing. Forget what the tiny 1.25" bearing in the kit is for but I expect it will be obvious. Glad I grabbed this kit for $25 years ago they are over $60 now!

[geezer101]

I think your theory about the starter solenoid not making full travel is on the money. Partial engagement of the starter drive will risk damage to the ring gear.

[85Ram50]

I think your theory about the starter solenoid not making full travel is on the money. Partial engagement of the starter drive will risk damage to the ring gear.
There were no visible new shiny spots on the starter when I took it out but the pinion gear is noticeably more round than the new one.

[FMS88]

The 1.25” bearing is probably the pilot bearing that fits inside the center of the flywheel and supports the front end of the input shaft. Definitely replace it with a sealed bearing. Don’t use a bearing with metal shielding. They don’t seal as well against water and dirt. I’ve had two metal shielded bearings rust and seize which ruined the input shaft.

[85Ram50]

The 1.25” bearing is probably the pilot bearing that fits inside the center of the flywheel and supports the front end of the input shaft. Definitely replace it with a sealed bearing. Don’t use a bearing with metal shielding. They don’t seal as well against water and dirt. I’ve had two metal shielded bearings rust and seize which ruined the input shaft.

I think you are right. I was thinking I needed larger bearing for some reason.

IS THERE ANYTHING I SHOULD KNOW BEFORE I DISCONNECT THE TRANS? I have it in 2nd gear as recommended in the FSM. I'm not going to drain it.

[FMS88]

I’ve never removed a 2wd trans but if it’s like the 4x, removing the shift lever makes things easier. Just protect the opening from dirt. Also you may need to remove the backup light switch. If you do be careful not to lose the 6-7mm ball that will fall out when the switch is removed. After the trans is out, consider replacing the input shaft seal and the rear crankshaft seal if the inside of the bell housing is wet, or if you have no idea how old they are. With it apart to this extent, now’s the time to do those seals. Inspect the clutch surface of the flywheel, too. If it’s scored, it should be removed and resurfaced. Have fun.

[85Ram50]

I have had it out before to replace the throwout bearing but I do not remember everything about how I disconnected it. It is starting to look like I have to remove the cross member.
I have the backup light wire disconnected and wrapped up close to the trans, disconnected the e brake and clutch cable. About to tackle the drive shaft. I didn't think of those seals thanks. Any special tools required? I've never done it before. Also it looks like two different sizes of rear crank seal on RA. I wonder what those gaskets are for?

Edit. Got the Drive shaft off loosened the bolts on the trans and trans mount. I shouldn't have to take out the cross member the mount unbolts from it which brings me to a new mount. None of the three on RA look similar to the one I have. I should have taken a picture before I cleaned up. That'll have to wait I need to go get something.
Oh yea the exhaust manifold may be cracked. Yippeee.

[geezer101]

I would remove the shifter assembly before trying to take the gearbox out. It'll give you more breathing room (plus I'm not even sure you could actually drop the gearbox with it still attached anyway) Is your drive/tail shaft a 2 piece? You will need to look at the condition of the carrier bearing as they do fail - the rubber part of the carrier bearing perishes and it'll cause vibrations and weird rumbling noises.

[FMS88]

I didn't think of those seals thanks. Any special tools required? I've never done it before. Also it looks like two different sizes of rear crank seal on RA. I wonder what those gaskets are for?

The crank seal and input shaft seal are in housings you unbolt from the engine and trans. The documentation I have lists the crank seal P/N as MD050604 and get one that comes with the "U" shaped gasket. After you remove the oil seal case from the block, note the direction of the metal oil separator. I just used a 3" ABS sewer cap and a large vise to press the seal into the oil seal case. To get to the input shaft seal you have to remove the front bearing retainer (case) behind the throwout bearing. The seal P/N is MD703735, the gasket is MD703734. Use a large socket with a diameter slightly larger than the seal's to install the seal into the retainer.
I don't have a P/N for the trans mount, but maybe another member can help you with that.

[85Ram50]

Got it geez. I was leaving that for last.
OK so I guess that is what those gaskets for the rear main seal are for. I have a press not the gadgets that make pressing easy though :)

I ordered the Fel Pro rear seal set and the Timken input shaft seal. I'll go put a jack under the tranny and take out the rear mount and put a picture up in a bit.

EDIT- Got a couple of pictures of the mount in place. two of the bottom one of the top that isn't clear. on top the studs with no nuts on them to the right.
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[geezer101]

The gearbox mount doesn't appear to be broken or torn. I did a lot of searching to find the correct trans mount for these trucks as there was some confusion to what was the right mount. I think I ended up finding one for a Saporo or a Celeste as a match...

[85Ram50]

Here are some pictures of the trans mount. You are right Geez. It is in fine condition and looks nothing like any other mount I have seen. There is a tube spacer that goes between the ears on the base where the bolt through the cross member goes. Note- Follow ALL of the instructions. the trans rolled off the jack and dumped all its fluid out of the shifter hole which I decided not to drain according to instructions :/ Off to get kitty litter.

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[geezer101]

The support in this mount is slightly elevated - can't say I've seen one like it. But that is good news that it's 100% as far as condition is concerned. Meh, it sucks you lost the gearbox oil but it would've been a good idea to swap it out anyway. Get ready for the 'which gearbox oil is correct for brass synchros' debate...

[85Ram50]

Flywheel off. The inside of the trans was just as dirty. Took two cans of engine cleaner and 3 cans of carb cleaner to get it clean. The rear seal is in the local post office distribution center, I should have it today or tomorrow.
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Lots of chipped corners on the ring gear.

[geezer101]

Yeah that looks pretty (nasty) normal. I've noticed for some reason oven cleaner isn't as effective at removing gearbox grime as it is on engines. The carb/brake cleaner is usually the weapon of choice for this kind of gunk.

[85Ram50]

OK I need help. I am inside the front of the input shaft and I need to remove the shaft the clutch cable pulls to move the throwout bearing. I have no idea how to do it but I need to or I cannot get the cover off to change out the input shaft seal. I changed the output shaft seal. I suspect I need to remove that thing which looks like a freeze plug on the passenger side but ????
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[camoit]

There are 2 roll pins that hold the shaft in place. When taking that cover off for the seal. Make sure you keep the front shaft in place.
DO NOT pull the shaft up or out. If you do you will drop all the needle bearings out between the input shaft and output shaft.
Then you have a big problem because you will need to pull the pan and then put them back into the input shaft. It's a big pain. Just think of trying to do a U joint that came apart but you have even less room for mistake.

[FMS88]

Pry the two coil springs off the clutch fork that held the t/o bearing to release their tension on the fork. The drive the two pins far enough that the fork rotates freely on the clutch arm shaft. You can then slide the arm to you right and remove the springs and fork. Don’t remove the plug. Note the position of the springs so you get them on their respective sides. Pull the pins out of the fork so you can insert them into the holes on the front side of the fork during reassembly.

[85Ram50]

I understand what you said FMS88. The springs are already loosened. I am not sure what you mean Camoit. What do you mean by "front shaft"? Do you mean the shaft with the splines on it? I had no intention of pulling on it but that is good to know.
BTW a 32mm socket is the right size for putting the output shaft seal in.

[85Ram50]

Update.
The parts all came in today way ahead of estimated delivery. All parts on, trans still off.
Two questions.
1. Is it normal for trans oil to leak out the output shaft when the front is propped up? Seems like a no to me. But while I had it up to get the throwout fork off it seems to have leaked some oil. (Edit- I had the housing for the input shaft seal loose at the time. That might make a difference.)
2. In the picture does the clutch look installed correctly? Should I tighten the clutch cover assembly all the way flush to the flywheel?

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[FMS88]

The output seal contacts the slip yoke, so without the yoke, oil can easily flow out if the trans is tilted up. If the disc is centered and the pressure plate contacts the flywheel at all guide pins and bolts after the bolts are torqued as in picture #4, I think you're good to go.

[85Ram50]

OK. I have it in with two bolts on the bottom, the cross member back in and the drive shaft and center bearing back on. Taking a break.

Its surprising how much lumber you need to install one of these on your own with it just high enough off the ground for the bell housing to fit under. I levered the front and back up and cribbed it until it was high enough for the jack to get under it. It is good to have a 3/4 plywood about an inch larger square than the pan a bunch of short 2x4 and a short 4x8 only because the little jack doesn't get up very high. I needed both the floor jack and the little cheapo floor jack to get it into position at the same time. Once I had a bolt seated with it on the projecting studs I only needed the one jack. Don't connect the cross member to the frame until you have the mount nuts and bolts in hand tight. I just need to put in the top bolts and the starter.
I'll be using Redline MT90 oil.

[85Ram50]

I showered and went out and got it started. Sounds nice. Ones I got it going it kicks off right away every time no funny noises. It might have hesitated because I drained teh pil and only put two quarts and a half quart of very old diesel back in.
I tried to put it in gear no clutch! Rasa frasa #$%^&*(OP{
I adjusted it a lot. I think I may not have any more adjustment to go.25402Is there more adjustment? How much?


So I think the new clutch cover assembly may not be a good match to the flywheel. The original flywheel only had two guide pins the new one has three. Also when I tightened the clutch cover assembly down to make contact with the flywheel it lost its crown. It would lose it near the bolt I was tightening until it was fully seated then it was flat. The old clutch cover assembly had its crown when installed. this is the old one. 25403

[geezer101]

That adjuster is a red flag straight up. You should have way more adjustment to work with than that - it shouldn't be wound that far out. And the loading/adjuster spring is missing? If the existing pressure plate (clutch cover) has all of the dowels located and aligned to the flywheel correctly then it's right. Are the flywheels identical? There is an anomaly somewhere that has caused the clutch assembly to be too far forward away from the clutch fork/arm which is why you have lost all of your adjustment. You'll have to visually compare what you had originally installed to the replacement parts - including the throw out bearing which is one component that is a primary cause of loss of clutch adjustment/travel.

[85Ram50]

Interesting since I did not change the throwout bearing because the one in the old clutch kit was looking grubby even after I cleaned it up. I didn't put them side by side but they didn't look any different to me in size and the one that is in there seemed much better quality made of stainless. I was wondering why the pressure plate cone flattened out as I tightened it with the new clutch that came with it in there.

Oh yea what is the loading adjuster spring?

I'm going to have to put it up again tomorrow and take it back apart.

Edit- The throwout bearing I left in cam out all the way to the end of the smooth shaft. The problem has to be something to do with the pressure plate. If I had to guess whatever is not allowing it to sit flush against the flywheel without screwing it down. The one I took off lays right on it no problem. IDK if its the third guide pin causing a problem or the kit is messed up. It's gonna be scrap metal now unless I find some mistake I made. I ordered an M-Pact off RA.

[geezer101]

There is a spring that slips over the adjuster on the clutch cable and one end of it locks into the 'teeth' on the adjuster nut thingy. It's to prevent the clutch cable adjuster backing out by itself and subsequently leaving you without a pedal.

[85Ram50]

Thanks again Geez. Saw it in the manual after you mentioned it. I never had a problem with it changing on its own. Not sure I will tackle it today, the body wants rest. It worked well enough to get it started in gear and drive it to a flatter spot on the driveway.

[85Ram50]

I went out to put it on jack stands and next thing you know its a few hours later and my transmission is on the ground.

These pictures are of the pressure plate after I loosened it. The fingers are cone shaped like they should be but it is like 1/4 inch away from the flywheel and the bolts are under tension but not tight. Is this how it is supposed to be? Or should it sit flat on the flywheel easy peasy? I checked my other one and even with the two pins one of them is slightly too big for the hole like this one is. It will go on if I force it. the gap photo is blurry but you can see how far away it is.

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Edit- I looked up the torque specs, set my wrench to 11ftlbs and it screwed down tight before it ever got close to triggering the torque wrench. I took the pressure plate off and it is 1 /4 shorter than the one I replaced! Good call geez. Hopefully the new one I ordered is the right size.

[geezer101]

They should be pinned tight against the flywheel - no gaps. And it was just a stab in the dark but I'm glad you found the anomaly.
So the big questions is - what is this pressure plate off? :scratchheadyellow: I have a theory about flywheels and pressure plate kits. Clutches from early Hyundais fit 4G63/G63B's but the pressure plate is inverted (it's a 'pull' clutch instead of push) I haven't checked the dimensions BUT they make full clutch and flywheel kits for Elantra/Tiburon/Coupe in 4 stage performance packages. Wonder if the flywheels interchange (they are 6 bolt)

[Fordubishi]

Ummmm it looks like the clutch disk is on backwards. the snout should be pointing out and the flush part of the input should be up against the flywheel. In picture 1 it looks like the spline input is almost flush with the clutch disk.

[85Ram50]

Geez, I ordered it years ago when I needed one. They sent me this one but still being green I was astute enough to recognize it wasn't the one in the picture and asked for that one. They never asked for this one back. So really its worth what I paid for it. The one I took out is the one they sent me to replace this one.

Fordubishi, The clutch plate is on with the flush side up against the flywheel. The pressure plate is wrong. In the post #32 that first picture is of the pressure plate after I loosened the bolts which allowed the fingers to come back out to a cone shape. When it is fully tightened the fingers of the pressure plate contract inward toward the clutch and are actually flat. That baffles me as I cannot see what mechanism causes it. But that pressure plate is 1/4 inch shorter than the pressure plate that worked which I am replacing with the new kit since I have a new flywheel.

[FMS88]

The alignment dowels for the clutch cover are usually driven into holes on the flywheel. How many does the old flywheel have and how many on the new one? I would expect both to have three, 120 degrees apart. If there are only two or the dowels are fixed to the clutch cover, that doesn't seem right. It would also explain why the cover won't seat tight against the flywheel.

[85Ram50]

FMS88, There are two pins on the old and 3 on the new. I can get the pressure plate to seat but when I do it is actuated and the fingers are all the way in as if the throwout bearing is pressing on it. I finally figured out why yesterday, this pressure plate is 1/4 in shorter than the old one. I put them on a table and put a level across the body of each one.
Edit- I figure that distance was forcing it down over the hat of the clutch plate and that was causing the fingers to collapse inward. It is probably a miss matched kit but since I bought it more than 10 years ago and they replaced it because I wanted the one in the picture that I thought I was buying it's scrap metal now. The measurement is 2.5" for the short one and 2.75" for the one that was in there.
EDIT 8-2-20- Correction the measurements are 1.5 and 1.75 respectively.

[FMS88]

On some vehicles the fingers will flatten a bit as the cover is tightened, but that wasn’t the case when I replaced my clutch on my G54b. I’d expect the clutch you ordered will behave as you expect.

[85Ram50]

On some vehicles the fingers will flatten a bit as the cover is tightened, but that wasn’t the case when I replaced my clutch on my G54b. I’d expect the clutch you ordered will behave as you expect.
I think so too. That might have been one of the first things I bought online and I do not remember what site I found it on but the new one coming is from RA.

Edit 8-1-20- delivery has not shown up. It was weird last eve it said delivery by end of day at the tracking page. Then an hour later it said no delivery scheduled. by email today RA said wait til Tuesday to contact them again. FedEx just told me on the phone they were already trying to trace it when I called as it had not been scanned for 6 days. They also said 7 days no scan they consider it a lost item.

[85Ram50]

Update.
OK the M Pact clutch arrived today. I immediately measured the pressure plate and it is a 1.5" tall plate. I have put it back in the box and done the label printing to send it back.
I see no mention of the height of the pressure plate on any of the clutch kits they offer on RA. Am I missing something? The old one is stamped with Valeo which is a Korean clutch company. No numbers on it.

[geezer101]

^what about the thrust/throw out bearing? Is it identical or does it have more forward offset?

[85Ram50]

^what about the thrust/throw out bearing? Is it identical or does it have more forward offset?
I never got past measuring the pressure plate. Once I knew it was short I never opened the plastic bag around the clutch or bearings. As is the one that is on the transmission right now comes out to or just over the splines on the input shaft when I move the lever by hand.
It just hit me this morning that I do not know for certain that this new flywheel is the same thickness as the other one. Seems like a possibility since the pressure plates are different sizes and there is no mention of that in the specs for them. So I'm doing that later today before I take the clutch down to the shipping office.
So if the flywheel is not the same size I am not sure what steps to take. I suppose I would have to ask for parts that match what I have.

Question- The holes for the pins on all the plates are tight and do not let it sit flush with the flywheel without using force. Would it be OK to make them bigger so that the pressure plate sits flush to the flywheel easily?

EDIT- The flywheel is the same. I sent the clutch kit back. I have to call some clutch shops and ask questions.

Edit- I spoke to a shop who told me to contact the manufacturer. I sent Valeo a message. The working clutch that I removed with the old flywheel is a Valeo.

[geezer101]

I wouldn't drill anything that is part of the transmission power delivery. If it's not fitting, either it's the wrong part or you've done something wrong installing it (not saying you have, but things happen...) The pressure plate has to be torqued down to clamp the clutch disc in place and needs to be dowelled without allowing axial movement. I would at worst get a small round file and gently remove the minimal amount of material from the mounting holes until it feels like it slips onto the dowels without a fight (even wrap some sandpaper around a rod and smooth off any roughness that might cause it to bind while fitting it)

[FMS88]

Have you measured the dowel and hole diameters? It might show that one is off and that only one, rather than all, needs some light filing or sanding. Also, I looked at the lousy Luk clutch I took off my G54b. At the dowels, the clutch cover sits about 1/16" above the flywheel surface. Only at the mounting bolts is the cover flush with the flywheel. This might be different for other brands, but it seemed worth mentioning here.

[85Ram50]

I notice that one hole on my old PP and Flywheel slips right on the pin. The other pin (there are only 2) is very tight. The pins seem to be conical getting wider as they go down. Whatever clutch kit I end up getting I will try to install it as is. if the fingers don't collapse I will leave it be. If they do I will use a file and work on the burr around the PP holes. I am hoping the message gets an informative answer. I still think it is possible I am making some kind of mistake as straight forward as it is I could be missing something.

[85Ram50]

I haven't heard back from Valeo yet so I was poking around their website and the show measurements for the same clutch RA has 8 7/16 x 1 13/2 x 23.
I wasn't sure what that indicates but measuring my pressure plates and clutch discs the 8 7/16 should be the clutch disc. IDK what the 1 1/32 is and 23 is the number of splines on the input shaft.
I found another difference with the valeo pressure plate I have. The interior dimension of the Valeo pressure plate is 5 and 7/16 on the other plate that did not work it is 5 3/8. That seems like it might be significant and causative to the fingers collapsing as I tightened the plate.
I'm debating on putting the old clutch back in. It doesn't have many miles on it. I was just following best practice by using a new one with a new Flywheel.

[geezer101]

The unexplained shudder could've been from loose bolts or a warped clutch plate. This isn't a hi-po engine so it probably wouldn't have glazing on it from slippage due to torque. I'd reuse the original pressure plate if all the fingers are level and straight with each other. I've reused pressure plates without issues and given the flywheel a once over with 180 grit and a sanding block just to rough up the surface (if it's got trenches in it, it either has to be machined or replaced)

[85Ram50]

I am embarrassed I wasn't paying attention to the clutch discs. The working one is very different from the new one. It's center disc is smaller and it has a neck that protrudes out the front which I suspect gives the contact with the PP fingers the other one doesn't. Another embarrassment I just saw a tiny Valeo stamp on the new pressure plate and a tiny PH too. Two pics one shows how I measure the body heights and the other shows the two discs, the old on on the left.

http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=25487&stc=1 http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=25488&stc=1

Edit- Further measuring makes the old clutch plate 8.5 inches not 8 7/16. I found a kit on Carparts.com that says it is guaranteed to fit and has an 8.5 clutch disc. I ordered it since its guaranteed and free delivery.
Edit2- Carparts.com site said it would be delivered by Friday the 7th. When I checked the tracking number the next day it said August 12th, then the next day it got moved down to August 13th. I guess i have been spoiled as this feels bait and switchy. Until I ordered the last clutch I have had good luck with deliveries.

[geezer101]

Oh OK. The 6 spring is a sports/HD clutch disc? It'll grab differently to the standard clutch disc. Does 1/16" make that much difference? Hopefully the new clutch will fix your woes.

[85Ram50]

OK I have the new clutch and am trying ti install it today. I am having trouble with the new throw out bearing. The springs keep popping off when I manually move the fork from the lever. I measured the width thinking that might be a problem but it is the same. I have 3 pics let me know if you see something. Also can I get new springs?

http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=25542&stc=1http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=25543&stc=1http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=25544&stc=1

Edit1-I tried some more. The springs won't sit in properly. I did some more comparing and the only difference I see is the OD of the new one is 2 3/4 and the old one is 2 5/8. This is preventing the new one from sitting all the way on and allowing the springs to seat that little bend at the end of the spring that goes in to the fork. The body is hitting the fork in between the tines.
mo pics First one is the old bearing with the springs staying as it moves. Second the new one with the springs popped. third the two sitting on each other.

http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=25548&stc=1http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=25545&stc=1http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=25547&stc=1

Edit2-dealing with dirtbags. They sent a tech phone number with the clutch. No one answers and you have to leave a message. The website they want you to go to has you enter the part number and shows you what you probably already looked at before buying it like I did and takes you back in a circle to the phone number. the alignment tool they sent is bigger at the end. At first I thought the pilot bearing I put in the flywheel was a different size. Then I tried the one they sent with and it too did not want to let it in at first. Yes I put drops of oil on it. Its just tight at the end the shaft fits fine. I know. I'm too pissed to laugh right now. I need to get a new bearing or permission from these dirtbags to use my clutch release bearing so I can put this thing together. Perfection clutch made of the finest Chinesium you can buy!

Edit3- Sent the vender carparts dot com an email.

[geezer101]

OMG. You can join the line with WarStryker of members who have had no luck with getting their truck sorted :shakehead: I actually haven't seen a throw out bearing with a die cast body before. Every one that I've seen has a pressed steel body. The perches/shoulders on the new TOB look shorter too. Even if you get it to go in, I think it'll still struggle to disengage the clutch properly...

[85Ram50]

Thanks. I missed that one. I just sent another email this time to the email who told me my part was delivered. I sent the third pic to them so they can see it too. I'm about ready to put the old one back in.

[85Ram50]

This morning the old clutch and pressure plate bolted right up with no problems at all. I am having a heck of a time sliding the transmission back on though.
Last night the website message got a reply, I sent them a picture too. Took a break this morning and the email I sent direct was responded to and I have a shipping label in email from FedEx with RMA number on it as well. I wonder what the deal is with my transmission and throw out bearings?

Edit- Got the transmission and cross member on. Tightened the clutch cable, put shifter back on, it felt good on the pedal. I quit because of the heat 90 and climbing. Tomorrow the driveshaft and starter then test drive.

[geezer101]

90 is comfortable lol. We've been getting temps up to 116! :lmao:And the weather is cold and wet now where I am. Getting a transmission up and on is tricky. Really need at least 2 jacks to raise and level the engine + trans. Once you have it aligned, it'll almost leap onto the back of the engine. There's a couple of anomalies with these truck transmission combos. Nobody has been able to nail down what trucks have which offset throw out bearing and clutch assemblies installed. I know how to identify 1/2 ton and 1 ton load trucks but I'm not sure if this has anything to do with the clutch thing...

[85Ram50]

I been spoiled weather wise for a few years. The trick was rocking it in the horizontal plane. As soon as I went back out it slid in to being 1 inch from home. so I grabbed the tail and put my palm on the bell and wiggled it until it slammed home. It was aligned fine I just couldn't get the right grip to shove it straight in.

[85Ram50]

Ok got her back together. Clutch works fine. I have a new noise probably from the drive shaft. Does the Center bearing have a up and down side? I think I put it in upside down or I got the tail piece 180 out as it sounds like the shaft is grinding or rubbing. In fact when I stopped I thought I was dragging something as that is what it sounded like.
Edit- My service manual doesn't mention anything about up or down side on the center bearing.

[85Ram50]

OK I found out what it is, the cup on the tail shaft of the transmission and the cup on the drive shaft rubbing against each other.
Anyone know the correct name for these parts?
The trans cup is depicted in the FSM diagram but they do not name it. I think it must be out of round from me moving it about. I tried hammering it and made it better but it is still rubbing.

[85Ram50]

No one has had this problem or knows what the parts are called?

Edit- OK on the slip yoke it is called the Dust Cap. And one of the manuals I am browsing on here page 89 for what looks like a 4WD Dust Seal cap. I would assume all the others before it that don't have a listing are also the same. After that listing they call it dust shield guard.
Spoke to a transmission shop the guy says there is no method other than to try to get it back to round. I will go to the local CC wood shop to see if they will turn me a piece of wood to hammer into it.

[FMS88]

My FSM lists them as dust seal guards. On the center bearing, I can't find anything that specifies a top or bottom. I mount it with the round hole pointed down. It looks like any water that gets inside will drain more easily that way. If the mounting "ears" have tabs at their ends that are bent at 90 degrees, I point the tabs down. Most after market bearings don't have the tabs.
Congrats on getting clutch in and operating properly.

[85Ram50]

My center bearing has the ears on it. I had it in right. I got the contact for the community college shop guy and sent him a message. I talked to a wood turner she said about $15 to turn it. OD of the shield is 3 54/64ths at the wide end.

[xboxrox]

You'll fix it I am sure & them college machinists deserve $20 if you give em the part to fix (assuming it comes off?)
:thumbup:

[geezer101]

Those yoke covers are only pressed on. You don't want to distort the end that presses onto the transmission extension or you'll never get it to fit back on. You could get away with just knocking it off, but it's there to protect the yoke and joint and prevent oil from being sprayed all over the place if the extension housing end seal fails.

[85Ram50]

I futzed with it some more. I used a 3" pipe and hammered on it to round out the obvious flats. Then based on Geezers info I tapped on the cup and it moves a bit. I notice you can feel the spot it touches when you have your finger right over it and also discovered the reciprocating dust cover on the slip yoke is also out of round. I got it to where it wasn't making noise turning it manually and went for a drive. It is still making noise so I went down to the wood turning lady with my drawing and she will be getting back to me in a couple days. I am probably going to make a 2 piece thing out of wood for the slip yoke cup. This is it before I started.

http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=25584&stc=1

[xboxrox]

One good thing the bottom of your truck looks practically rust free :thumbup:

[85Ram50]

One good thing the bottom of your truck looks practically rust free :thumbup:

PO had allowed a lot of oil to leak or did some very sloppy pouring of it. Everything under there is coated in oil and dirt over whatever undercoat was on it. When I take the driveshaft off again tomorrow I will remove the dust guard off the transmission so I can just fix it on the bench. I think I may cut the dust guard on the slip yoke back too.

[geezer101]

The collar on the yoke is pressed on too. A tap with a hammer and it'll come off.

[85Ram50]

I have it off the output shaft. Measures 3 3/4 at its base. The guy at drivetrain .com says he doesn't have one, I should look in wrecking yards and that it's not necessary. I am committed to making it work as it was built if I can. I didn't look close at the yoke but I have the impression it's welded.
Note the 3" ABS pipe fits snug in the slip yoke dust shield. If I had a piece of steel 3" pipe I could hammer it good to make sure its round.

[85Ram50]

Got her done. The wood turning lady's lathe broke just as she was close to finishing it. It worked fine as is. I tapped it in with a hammer then used the vice to slowly push it all the way in. I tapped the cup on the yoke all the way around it just to be sure. Put the cup back on the trans and the driveshaft back in. manually moved it around to make sure it was seated right. It was up in the air so I started it and put it in first and let it run gave it some gas. No scraping first time.
New tick, the truck doesn't always turn over first try. It clicks in the engine bay somewhere. It happens a couple times then it starts. I'm not sure if its the "new to em" turn signal unit or what.
No pics I let the battery run down on the cam.

EDIT- I forgot to mention I applied heat to the dust cover. I cranked it in about 1/4 then heated up the metal all the way round. It made cracking sounds. Couldn't tell if it was the metal stretching or the wood cracking. The wood is slightly burnt and shiny all the way round where it was iner.

[xboxrox]

85Ram50 good job, ya cleaverly fixed it... So, now it's time to find sumpin else needing repair :grin: Ram50 starters have the starter selenoid mounted on the starter motor (right?) maybe it's the source of the clicking..? Did you ever replace the ignition switch (I can't remember)..? If not, try quickly flicking the key in various manners & various torquing pressures/directions to see if there is a sweet spot to starting on 1st try...

Aloha to All --

[geezer101]

A win on the yoke cover thingy cup. Nice :) The mystery tick? Low battery cranking amps, ignition relay or the starter solenoid as suggested by xboxrox? :shrug:

[85Ram50]

I forgot to mention I heated up the dust cover while driving the wood mold into it.
This is a new flywheel new starter situation, not that a new starter couldn't be bad. "Starting Issues" thread I changed out the turn signal and wiper control with one from the JY. Reconnected a wire that burnt up at the mating point on the old one. My idea is old wiring in general being old. Might be that tiny piece of plastic that fell out when I removed the ig switch to look it over.

Edit I drove it a bit and it shifts nicer and seems smoother and did not get hot. I thought the gauges had failed again but the fuel tank was full and the temp was all the way over left. When I stopped before I shut it down I was resetting the radio it started to get warm. Maybe that pin missing and rounded over ring gear from the other flywheel wasn't the only thing wrong with it.

[xboxrox]

Might be that tiny piece of plastic that fell out when I removed the ig switch to look it over.

What if your truck was used on average 300 days or 300 times each year for the last 35 years..? A typical daily use might mean using the ignition switch at least 4 times maybe more... One start & one stop to point A then again one start & one stop back home to point B basically (assuming) 4 switchings if the truck got used in any given day... A to B to A = 4 switchings

300 days
X4 switchings
-----------
1,200 yearly switchings

1,200 year
X 35 years
-----------
42,000 estimated current switchings

Even though your truck was built to high quality standards by skilled dedicated crafstman, the switch could be getting tired/brittle plastic/worn contacts, yada, yada... Add to that all the tired wiring you see multiplies the resistance & compromises the continuity overall, yeah... New switches are probably a better design made with (possibly) better materials & better engineering too... Vintage products just don't compare to brand new 2020 technology, we know that, yeah... So, it might take a combination of fixes to cure the tick no start every 1st try..?
1) flywheel teeth
2) new starter
3) new wiring
4) new battery
5) inspect clean or replace starter relay
6) replace the ignition switch with a new unused Mitsubishi part (not J/Y)

Thank you for reading this far & NOT getting pissed at my rant / lecture / yada, yada (who am I anyway, nobody...) I got to thinking that IF my carburetor actually gets fixed & was actually the problem THEN my truck might actually run again AND not have any gasoline leaks... Lesson Learned, at the first sign of that 1st gas leak the carburetor should have been rebuilt and not patch work fixed... We broke the phenolic plastic fuel bowl throttle body tinkering with just trying to fix the accelerator pump diaphragm that was leaking gas... And we tried it with the carburetor ON the truck, Vernon said the carb would have to be unbolted/removed to replace that diaphragm, so true, now I believe... Well, the BIG lesslon learned is that because we broke it we had to replace it, used a J/Y carburetor... Worked good for a while, the truck even gained power and a passing gear..! Well, the J/Y carb gave up the ghost & it's back to square one to FINALLY try rebuilding the carburetor... And, if it don't work, I will try rebuilding a 2nd Mikuni carburetor... And, if that don't work, we will either get another vehicle or [surprise?] the wife might let me spend another $500 for professionaly rebuilt carburetor... Long story short is: "Because of being forced to rebuild the damn Mikuni part; the truck won't ever be driving around with a one barrel carburetor anymore..." Whew, what a workout..! Working on the truck 'n carburetor crap is easier than all this typing & composition..! In geezer's own eBay voice BleH...

Wasted Enuff Time this Time & Thank you for your Time this Time, it's about Time to go work on the truck :P
Lay tah --
George

[85Ram50]

AFAIK there is no ignition relay in this vehicle. The part on RA does not look like anything I have seen on my truck. IDK where I'd get an ignition switch.
Here is a picture of the tool I used to get the dust shield back to round. Edit- I think it is actually a 1/16 or 1/8th bigger than I ordered which I am fine with. It worked first time no adjustment.
http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=25608&stc=1

[geezer101]

I'm sure the trucks run a bypass relay that kills accessories and lights etc while cranking so it doesn't send the battery into orbit :scratchheadyellow: meh, could be wrong...

[85Ram50]

I'm sure the trucks run a bypass relay that kills accessories and lights etc while cranking so it doesn't send the battery into orbit :scratchheadyellow: meh, could be wrong...

Xbozrox hooked me up in a PM to a dealer who may be able to get me a switch. I contacted them and asked about the multi switch too. I guess I am going to have to figure out how the wiring is layed out so I can make sure all the wires I need are in good shape. I think my battery is fine I did have it tested at the battery store when I was going though the starting issues thread. I suspect my alternator and the wiring. But I'll be happy if the ignition switch fixes the issue. I hates electrical intermittances....

[85Ram50]

Just heard back from Mitsubishi Parts Central. All switches are gone and obsolete. Ditto the multi switch. :(

[geezer101]

I hooked someone up with an aftermarket switch not that long ago - they are around. The switch assemblies were used across a number of models so it might not necessarily be under D50/Ram50 etc.

[85Ram50]

I hooked someone up with an aftermarket switch not that long ago - they are around. The switch assemblies were used across a number of models so it might not necessarily be under D50/Ram50 etc.

If you remember where let me know please. All I find are the ones wired into one connector. Apparently they can be made to work but I am not very good with wiring without specific instructions.

[xboxrox]

Member MAXDSM uses Aliexpress web site to buy new Mitsubishi L200 truck parts... Same as our trucks, Aliexpress is a Chinese version of our eBay 'n Amazon... A similar web site is WISH... You might find a new ignition switch check with Gary at MPC which vehicles used the same switch ( he might have a cross reference)
Happy Hunting

[xboxrox]

https://www.yoyopart.com/oem/11461391/beckarnley-2011159.html

Cross reference what vehicles use the same Mitsubishi MB 414579 ignition switch...

[85Ram50]

OK just spent an hour. Found two sites who listed one of those parts but they did not have it. Call first these folks out there are listing products they don't have to phish you for your saleable data.
the dodge Challenger switch that come sup is never for 78-80 the years in that link and looks wrong. aliexpress and Wish want you to join before they let you search. Ali will show you stuff but its not specific to your search.

[85Ram50]

Update.
I found an after market ign switch the Standard US118. It has an extra wire to the connector which doesn't matter. That two wire connector that was taped to it is a separate part of the switch, well it did not come with anyway. I got it for $15 shipped. ! folks on Hollander and car-parts.com priced it and shipping different but it always ended up at $60 or better shipped for a used one and they insisted on sending me the key lock even though several did not have the keys! I decided to spend on a brand new "Mopar" multi switch too. see pic
I learned that the headlights do not work with the steering wheel off.
I put them both in and it started no hesitation 4 times. I put all it back together. The picture of my instruments is what it does when the key is on and the head lights are on. At least this time the blinkers worked but that right indicator light stays lit and the left one glows dimly when the head lights are on.
Edit- Oh yea the radio wouldn't turn on. :/
Did some driving and when I shut it off it did not want to start. Tried 4 times no light on the dash nuttin. I squeezed the multi switch connector and it started. I can't say for certain that is why it started but I did not shut it off again til I got home. Knowing nothing about electrics, Something the key turns on in the engine bay seems to be the issue with starting. The rest of my long term electrical issues seem to be lack of enough power. That battery light is new which makes me wonder if the alt is not working properly or generating enough power. Does anyone have the exact diagram of how to wire a 90 amp alt?

More fun I have a radiator leak. Dam thing is only a few years old. I have no idea where. There is a drip spot under it. The bottom inside the cowl is wet and the fan is wet on the side that faces the motor?? but there is not water on the face of the motor or if I run my hand under the radiator.

http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=25672&stc=1http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=25673&stc=1http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=25674&stc=1

[Salteen]

Could the hose be punctured? I remember with my F150 I had a coolant leak. Bought a new rad and hoses, still leaked. My new hose had a big slit in it. Also check around the water pump, I've seen a 2.4 just randomly leak there :shrug:

[85Ram50]

Thanks. The only wet spots are where i said. Hoses were dry as was the front of engine. Only spot dripping is off the fan cowl.

[geezer101]

Check the radiator cap seal, then check that the fill neck isn't dented. Look around the top inlet pipe as the soldered join might have failed, then look under the edge of the top tank for a similar failure. If it's a perforated core, you normally can see a vent of steam or coolant seeping somewhere.

[85Ram50]

Thanks Geez. This is a "new" plastic marvel. I put it in when I blew the head a few years ago.
On another note That new overflow made a big difference, the drive I took then it stayed cool until I got home and let it idle for a bit. It drew up almost all of the contents of the overflow which was my first indicator I was losing coolant somewhere.

[geezer101]

Ah, ok. Have a look up at where the top of the cores butt up against the tank support for any signs of green sludge as an indicator that a core has let go. The top tank seal might have a breach in it. If you find it's leaking from the top tank seal, get a pair of locking jaw pliers and gently go around the tank 'claws' and squeeze them down. I've had new radiators leak from not having the claws closed sufficiently (and some not even closed at all...) I don't like the plastic/alloy radiators. The top tanks are prone to failure but that is only if you don't monitor the coolant levels and the quality is hit and miss on aftermarket units :shakehead:

[85Ram50]

I haven't done anything to it. Its been sitting and leaking, stopping, then leaking again. You are probably right Geez. I've been doing other stuff. More other stuff to go tomorrow. I should be able to get back to it next week.
9-15-20- The leak is in the top corner, inside driver side. I squeezed it with some small pump pliers. Still a puddle under it. I have the cowl off. I am going to do a engine flush when I get the Alt going and after that replace the freeze plugs I can get to easily and the plastic with an all aluminum rad.

[85Ram50]

Got a new all aluminum radiator. I am going to flush the system hoping to clean out the gunk and make the heater hotter then I will replace it.
The leak from the top corner of the radiator got worse and when the sun was on it, it leaked more.

[geezer101]

Damn, that's no good. I really don't like the plastic tanked radiators. It's like they're engineered to fail...

[85Ram50]

Yea I think climbing om top to work on the starter bolt had something to do with it failing. I drained the radiator. I took off the thermostat housing cleaned it up and took out the thermostat so I can aggressively flush it. Got that side bolt loosened the gauge mount bolt. Cleaned the rust off the mount bolts and used copper anti seize on them. Have you got any idea how to search for a water temp gauge to screw in to that thermostat housing? I think it is 1/8" NPT

I drove around with some flush in it but it never got very hot even with the cowl off. So I came home and put a paper bag in front of the rad and it heated up. The heat wasn't getting better, my main goal, so I tried moving the lever to open and close the heater valve. Then I revved it with it closed and opened it and the air got hotter. I have left it sitting and will empty it and flush it again tomorrow. I've still got the oil flush in there I started before it got decommissioned. I added some oil today just in case.

[85Ram50]

The first flush was Zerex. I drained it this morning. then I put about half of a gallon of distilled water I had dissolved a pound of TSP in. Filled it with water and got it warmed up. The heater control had come off the valve. I reconnected it and left the cover off of the lever valve connection. Heat got really hot. YEA! the whole point of the TSP flush. Went and did my errands, got T boned see other post in fab thread, came home and after my body calmed down enough I made myself go out and finish the flush. It took quite a bit of flushing and i figured out a way of doing it. The motor running I'd fill it rev it and then pull off the bottom hose and let the radiator drain out it back on (no clamp) over and over and over until after revving there were no suds in the water streaming by the top. Then I took the radiator out and put the thermostat back in with a new gasket. Install new rad tomorrow.
Edit-10-1-20 Turns out I cracked the housing when I put the thermostat back in. New one on order due in tomorrow afternoon.

[85Ram50]

OK I got the new thermostat housing on and filled it. It did not take 9.5 quarts as the owners manual says. It took about 6 The gallon I drained into a bucket and half of a new one. with the thermostat open. Top hose was very hot and the heater was too. ???Maybe I read the owners manual wrong. I filled the overflow with new fluid to the line. I assume it will go down if the motor wants to take up more.
Fan question, When I was flushing it I hit the fan with my thumb a few times and stopped it once. Today when I was letting it warm up the fan was barely spinning and the belt is tight. Is that normal? It eventually started to spin I am assuming the clutch in it operates on heat from the motor. I have never seen that fan not spin before.

[geezer101]

It uses a friction coupling that relies on heat so there should be times when it isn't spinning. CHUCK IT and install an electric thermo fan. The clutch fan is a piece of neanderthal tech, although it is mechanically reliable is really inefficient (stinking hot day, stuck at the lights and only pulling air at idle speed - not good...)

[85Ram50]

Good to know. What fan do you have? did it come with a thermostat? Where did the thermostat mount?

[geezer101]

Good to know. What fan do you have? did it come with a thermostat? Where did the thermostat mount?


#1 - generic slimline push/pull fan (came with a less that adequate wiring harness but it had a relay) IIRC it's a 10" but I have it paired with another 10" for the A/C.

#2 - no thermostat or install kit was with it.

#3 - I had a radiator repair shop solder in a sender bung in the bottom tank (brass and copper radiator for a Gen 1 - well, it was out of an early van which required more modifications to make it work for the truck...)

I would install an in hose sender adapter in the bottom return hose as they are easy to set up and are cheap. The bottom hose (or radiator tank) is the best place as the fan will shut off once coolant temperatures have dropped to ideal conditions. I've added aluminium extrusions for the fan mounts as I don't like the surface mount zip-tie things that come with a lot of aftermarket fan kits.

[geezer101]

I have less than helpful links to my thread here - http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/3599-New-to-mightyram50-not-to-Mitsubishi?p=70328&viewfull=1#post70328

I really need to find time to get back onto the truck :shakehead:

[85Ram50]

Well I installed the LILAND GLOBAL 700AA all aluminum radiator and the fan shroud. The shroud rubs on the lower hose but everything bolted up as the original and plastic replacement did. I am going to drive it to the tire shop today and maybe go run around in the hills and do some highway miles to see how it acts. I'm just real happy it has real heat for the first time since I owned it!
I'll have to search for fans and find out how to use a relay.
Edit- Maybe I should say the shroud presses against the lower hose. I'm not sure how it might rub unless the shroud comes loose.
Edit2- I filled the gas tank up and put 40 highway miles on it. the arrow stayed below half at 65mph and went vertical at 70. When I opened the hood this morning the overflow liquid had been drawn up into the motor. I over filled it thinking it might need more. The level has not changed yet.