79 Dodge D-50 Sport, start/run issues

[Onehairysalad]

Help!!! Just replaced my spark plugs + wires & truck had rough idles at first. Then I fixed the gaps, which were off. I cleaned them up & popped em back in. I also did the wires 1 by 1 so as not to cross, or mix up. Truck then began to idle violently, & finally only for a short amount of time if at all. Does anybody know what the issue could be here? The truck ran like a dream before any of this. Only work I've done is change the radiator, and fill it with thermocure. Also I got new hoses for it and made sure they were secured. Also I got a new pre heater hose & slapped it on, seemed a bit long, but I still got it in there. I also washed out the engine bay with degreaser and water multiple times, but I've driven it out of town since then. Not sure where to go from here!!!

[tortron]

Sounds like a pair of leads has been switched tbh.

- just saw you washed down the engine bay. If the cap and leads were wet you could have had them earthing out.

Double check your lead order. That they are correctly seated in the cap and on the plugs, that the cap is seated on the distributor,
Try again with everything dried out

[geezer101]

Water will get in anywhere it can and cause mad misfiring. Also check the press fit of the leads and the threaded caps on the spark plugs. I've had them loose straight out of the packet before. Check the posts in the distributor cap and the end of the rotor button for charring/burnt spots. A little fine wet and dry to brighten them up will help conductivity.

[85Ram50]

If its water in the Distributor cap WD40 was made for exactly that purpose. The WD stands for Water Displacement. Spray the contacts with it and that should solve the problem if it is water in the cap.

[Onehairysalad]

Alright sprayed it all with wd 40 & wires are sitting in the sun to dry out some. I'll let you all know how it goes!!! Thanks guys! You all the mvps!

[Onehairysalad]

I also ordered some cheap champion spark plugs, so will replace those. Just worried I could've got some irreversible damage to my baby. I'm hoping this all turns out ok!

[85Ram50]

For future use, when you spray WD on something electric and wet it is usually good to go right then. Blowing things dry with air is helpful too.
BTW I learned this the hard way whenever you hose off the engine or engine bay, start it first and keep it running until you are done and for a bit after.

[Onehairysalad]

Damn! Yeah I dont know what I screwed up here. Threw some new spark plugs, made sure the wires were in correct order and attached correctly. Car still rough starts violently shaking, and if lucky will run for a few seconds & slowly dies out. I guess next I'm replacing the cables again, I'll have to figure out how to test the distributor & coils next.

[Onehairysalad]

For info, idk if helpful, I used champion RN11YC4 spark plugs. I checked the gaps and all were set at .4.

[Onehairysalad]

Extremely frustrating because this thing ran better than my newer cars that I've had in the past. No issues whatsoever, always started without hesitation.

[85Ram50]

If the parts guy chose them have them confirm they are for your truck.
I feel for ya. I had this sort of thing happen to me on my 85 when two things happened. The balancer belt broke but I did not know it and I "rebuilt" the weber carb. It never ran well since except after I put in the new carb. I've still got to dial it in and right now its not wanting to start easy.
I would slowly go over what you did standing there reenacting it to see what wires or hoses you may have knocked off.

[tortron]

Do you still have the old plugs and wires?
It's hard to diagnose over the internet but it sounds like it's running on 2 or 3 cylinders.

Pull all the plugs.
Try a known good plug (probably the most tan and dry one that's currently in the engine)
Try that plug in each plugwire, holding it against the engine block to earth.
You are looking for a strong blue spark from each wire.
This will eliminate the distributor and coil as the issue.

If all the wires give a good spark from the good plug then try your other plugs in one and see if all your plugs give a good spark.
If there's a wire that doesn't give a good spark with a known good plug, then the wire is the problem
And same goes for the plugs, if you get a good spark on one plug, but no spark on another then the plug is the problem

That's a basic way to to it, sometimes the issue isn't immediately obvious (plug wires that fail when hot, plugs that spark in one orientation, but when in the engine are the wrong way, or a weak spark that gets blown out under compression) but don't worry about that for now.

The other possibility is that the timing is out. Did you loosen the distributor at all?

[Onehairysalad]

I think I should order some NGK spark plugs, I currently have 2 sets of champion plugs, 1 from rock auto & 1 from autozone. They are different lengths when measured side to side, maybe I should get a part# specific NGK, and clean out the wells & threads. It's even possible that some debris could have fallen down the well. I really thought that a spark plug change was much more simple.

Also, I did not remove the distributor, but I did remove the cap, and I wiped the inner workings down and sprayed it all with wd40. Also I cleaned & sanded all of the terminals. I tested the wires against the block & got spark from all 4. I dont quit understand how to test the spark plugs with the wires, as you mentioned. Do I remove the spark plug, and connect it to the wire with the key in the on position? Or would I have to crank to achieve that spark?

[geezer101]

Remove a spark plug, take the plug lead that was connected to it and reinstall the plug, ground the plug terminal to the engine and get someone to crank it over. If you can see a consistent electrical arc in the spark plug gap, you have a good ignition source from that lead/plug. This is a basic test for spark/ignition faults. Plugs are important (like stating the obvious here...) You need the correct plug type - threads too short, the electrodes are out of reach of the air fuel charge. Threads too long, risk of mechanical damage, pre-ignition of air fuel by carbon build up etc. Gap is too wide, weak spark. Gap is too close, not enough area of exposure to ignite the air fuel charge. Then there's the actual heat range of the plug, tuning tricks like plug indexing and dynamic engine tuning... there's a real science to it.

I would use NGK plugs. They are as OEM as you can get. And get the ones specifically listed for your engine type. If you suspect the coil hasn't been changed in 10 years (or ever...) get a good quality new unit. A coil will on average last about 10 years before it starts to break down. If you can upgrade to a transformer type coil with the ballast resistor as a package, they are superior to the oil filled can coils.

[Onehairysalad]

What is this? I just found this broken CONNECTOR to an air hose, connected to the ignition coil. 2525525255

[85Ram50]

It is part of the emissions system for the Mikuni carb On my 85 there are two of them with two hose connections each.

[Onehairysalad]

Do you know what part that is? I'll have to order a new one.

[geezer101]

Doubt you'll find one. Try a spot of crazy glue and reconnecting the broken barb. The ignition circuit won't connect up without a vacuum on that barb. This thing has killed lots of engines and left owners freaking out on why their truck suddenly stopped running... option #2 - disconnect the hose, block off the source vacuum and bridge the connection to the vacuum unit so it makes continuous contact.

[Onehairysalad]

Thanks guys!! Could this be the source of all of my troubles?
Rough, violent idles, to no start, etc? I've replaced almost everything in the ignition system a couple of times, and by chance found this little detail yesterday.

[85Ram50]

See if this place still has those parts attached to the fender of one of their units. http://om.lindellauto.com/om/fvn/default.asp?term=Ram+50&search=1
Seems like they would get left behind after removing the motor etc.
I have no idea who they are I just found them searching. I also do not know if it is affecting your motor as the emissions stuff was ripped out of mine when I bought it.
One more thing, if you need help to find a new or used one Mike Warme is in LA (I think) he is a member here try to contact him he might be able to help you find one. There are also a lot of good junkyards in the valley but you probably already know that :)

[geezer101]

Try unplugging it and bridging the terminals/pins across the connector. If it decides it wants to run - bingo, found it...

[camoit]

Sounds like a stuck EGR system. The Mekuni carbs used a slider inside the carb to controll EGR flow. The valve under the carb was to just open and close the gas flow. If anyone want's to clean out the EGR passages just get a bottle of Chevron Techron. Use that stuff with a brush or pour it in the passages. It will melt carbon. And what ever is left over you can put in the tank.

[Onehairysalad]

I will check out the EGR & PCV valves, and clean them out. My buddy swears up & down that my rough idle is due to the open choke. I'm just not sure if it has been open when It was running fine. Does anybody have any input on fixing the choke flap?

[geezer101]

Check the choke butterfly when the engine is cold before starting. If it's almost completely closed and the butterfly has a little play in it, that would be considered normal. If it's open when cold, the wax choke pellet may have failed but the engine will run fine when warmed up. A tell tale sign it has given up is a thick looking grease built up on the throttle linkages below the choke housing. If that is the case I'd start looking for another carb. It is 'fixable' but #1 - the replacement wax pellet assemblies aren't easy to find and #2 - I have never been able to successfully remove one without damaging the choke body in the process.

[Onehairysalad]

Before I get to work on everything, I want to show you guys the fuel pump? Looks like a line is missing, but idk what the hell is going on here. Also I have a pic of the choke butterfly, it stays fully open, but I'm safe to leave it this way? At least for the time being?2527925280

[geezer101]

The pump was optioned for carbs that don't run a direct return to the fuel tank. That port hasn't been drilled out or tapped on the fuel pump. If the choke is open cold, the auto choke has failed. It'll run without the choke function but starting it cold will be a drag. Is your carb an all alloy Mikuni Solex? This is going to sound like the voice of doom but you are going to have a problem finding another one of those carbs. You can swap to a later one, but to save you headaches try to find one from an 85 or earlier as the later Mikuni has all of these control solenoids on it that will be a nightmare to get operational on your engine. Now may be the time to think about a Weber swap.
I built a tricked up Solex carb and gave it to a friend - it's probably a desk ornament now :lmao:

[Onehairysalad]

I believe it is an alloy mikuni, yes. As of now, I'll start looking at doing the weber swap, what type would it be again? & what issues will this eliminate?

I have to say I've expanded my mechanical abilities tenfold thanks to you all & my d50, I really have to spread the love when I become a 1st gen expert when I grow up haha!!

[geezer101]

Why a Weber - a way less complicated carb to work on. They are a big improvement on fuel economy and performance. They are the same price as a rebuilt/replacement Mikuni 32-35DIDT carb (you will need to factor in an adapter kit to mount it to the Mitsubishi intake manifold, the electric fuel pump + I would add a relay kit with an inline/inbuilt fuse to reduce current draw on the ignition system and protect the electrics from an overload or short). The Weber is a good spring board for performance and works best with the usual stand by mods for an engine - headers, exhaust, porting and a wider duration cam. You should be able to make 120hp+ with a 38DGES carb (the original stand by choice was the 32/36DFEV but more guys are choosing the newer 38). There are some other simple mods you can add to the package to improve throttle response and help defend the engine from it's #1 enemy - heat. The cooling system in these things is a little 'iffy' and any improvement is worth while...

[Onehairysalad]

Thanks for the info geezer101, would it be this one... https://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts/WC/1826-01009559.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=ff&utm_content=YN&utm_campaign=PartsGeek+Google+Base&utm_term=1979-1982+Dodge+D50+Carburetor+Kit+Redline+79-82+Dodge+Carburetor+Kit+81+1981&gclid=Cj0KCQjw9IX4BRCcARIsAOD2OB23-D4xaQLCqyWNC0up9cAEgsoaP3WpXQ-KH-IK0LmoIxi5jEVBy30aAiY7EALw_wcB

[Onehairysalad]

In the meantime, I checked the resistance on my plug wires this morning, and realized that 2 & 3 were swapped. Once I traded those two, I turned the d50 over & she did her best since this all started. Still rough idling/ lurching & low power it seems. Everything looks like it's in slow motion. I tied off that vacuum unit with the broken barb & plugged it at the carb. I replaced the coil for the hell of it. I removed the egr valve & now am in the process of cleaning it. Anything else I can do during this process? I'm planning to take a look into the exhaust manifold & cat to make sure that they aren't all clogged up, I heard that was a thing. Correct me if I'm a moron.

[geezer101]

Thanks for the info geezer101, would it be this one... https://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts/WC/1826-01009559.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=ff&utm_content=YN&utm_campaign=PartsGeek+Google+Base&utm_term=1979-1982+Dodge+D50+Carburetor+Kit+Redline+79-82+Dodge+Carburetor+Kit+81+1981&gclid=Cj0KCQjw9IX4BRCcARIsAOD2OB23-D4xaQLCqyWNC0up9cAEgsoaP3WpXQ-KH-IK0LmoIxi5jEVBy30aAiY7EALw_wcB

Yep, that's the 32/36 Weber carb but you need one with a K610 optioned install kit. It'll have the base adapter plate and the throttle link/cable brackets. The original $788 price tag is a little optimistic lol.

[geezer101]

The plug leads being swapped are a worry. This is when I'd be checking everything - plug gaps, timing, throttle stop on the carb, how much adjustment you have on the distributor etc. It is easy for a novice to start 'adjusting' things just because it seems like it's affecting how the engine is running and then you are miles away from where you need to be. If the distributor has no advance in one direction or another it may have been installed out a tooth, or worse - 180 degrees out (it's closer to 170ish degrees as the distributor drive gear has an odd number of teeth) Check if you can accumulate pressure at the exhaust with your hand (not a super accurate way especially if you know the system is shot and need replacing). A blocked cat will stall out an engine so you are not a potato. Also check things like accelerator cable slack/adjustment. I've seen them with HUGE amounts of slack and winding the adjuster out can instantly gain lost power. This will be something minor you are looking for. You'll get it eventually :thumbup:

[Onehairysalad]

Will go through and check the small things. I slapped on the egr valve this morning, & some new vacuum lines. I'm also running techron through the tank. Idle is the same, when I press the accelerator, the truck stalls out. I know I will find the issue eventually. I just bought online spark testers as well.

[Onehairysalad]

Quick question, dont know if its a dumb one, but all logic is pretty skewed at this point. I was taking a look in my Haynes manual, and I noticed the distributor rotation diagrams, which show the 2.6L to have the #1 plug location on the lower left hand side of the distributor cap. When looking at my distributor cap, my #1 is located in the upper left hand side. The only memory Id have of the original position of the cap is lost forever as I had bumped it & knocked it off when I was changing the t-stat. I assumed there was only one way for it to sit though, so this is how I've installed it. Somebody please explain this illustration to me!!!25292

[geezer101]

Someone screwed up when they installed the leads. It'll run, but if you have to reset the distributor this could sabotage you badly. As long as you maintain the plug firing order you won't have issues. I would swap the leads to the factory locations so you are 100% sure of #1 plug firing on TDC with the rotor in the correct position.

[85Ram50]

Based on the photo, bottom of page being the right side and as long as the description applies to your truck the black dot is #1 cylinder. If you face your dist from the driver side the bottom left is it.

[camoit]

OK. Lets start with the easy stuff. Set the engine crank on the timing mark so you know the #1 piston is up.
Then remove the dist cap and look to see where the rotor is pointing. Then you can "assume" that the rotor is pointing at #1 or #4.
In knowing this you can hook up the wires in the firing order 1,3,4,2 and it starts great you got it. If it backfires it's out 180 deg.
If that happens then just swap around the wires on the cap. Move 1 to 4 and start over.

As for the broken thing. If it has only 1 port and not 2 it's the AC idle up solenoid. It's on the firewall next to the wiper motor.

[Onehairysalad]

Dammit! Well back to the drawing board. If somebody is in the central valley CA, you are welcome to stop by & get some eyeballs on it, I'll have a case of beer for you!!! I'm super frustrated, it's been a month and a half and a few too many bills to keep on it.

[Onehairysalad]

When I set TDC, the rotor sits in 2 positions, at the 10:00 & at the 5:00. I tried swapping the leads so that lead 1 was at the 7:00 per the diagram, but the motor didn't even turn over. So, Camoit, I will tinkwr with the leads & cap, and give you all an update when I'm finished.

[Onehairysalad]

This is what my motor looks like right now.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7QYJzzTOLJQ

[85Ram50]

That vid looks like its mirror imaged or do you have a foreign D50?
Anyway the rotor should only go on to the distributor one way. It should not have two positions.
If you are at TDC on the compression stroke and the dist is not at #1 it may be installed incorrectly. To know I am at TDC on compression I have used tissue at teh top of #1 cylinder to see it be pushed out by the air from the piston coming up or while wearing nitrile gloves sticking my finger in there and hearing the air make the glove squeak as it escapes. You can rotate the motor to TDC twice in one full cycle. One is exhaust one is compression.
Edit- When I put it at TDC compression I remove all of the spark plugs so it is easy to turn and get right. You can't turn the motor backwards, if yo pass the TDC mark you have to go all the way through to the next cycle.

[xboxrox]

This is what my motor looks like right now.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7QYJzzTOLJQ

:naughty:Mask-up:fever::offtopic:

[geezer101]

That is a full blown timing problem - it is knocking itself to death. Take a pic of the distributor as it is now and post it up. Maybe a keen eye will spot what is going on with the advance/retard on the distributor and you can begin to unravel the issue.

[Onehairysalad]

Okay, this is at TDC, plugs are gapped, wires are all correct. Cap is sitting where it sits. Don't trip on the second coil that's just a test coil that I haven't swapped back yet. Please take a look guys & let your tinkering minds go wild.253072530825309253102531125312

[Onehairysalad]

25313

[geezer101]

Ok it's not exactly @ TDC (closer to 7 degrees BTDC) and the distributor is sort of pointing @ where #3 cylinder should be firing from :shrug:

I think the distributor is way off. I'd be getting a timing light and checking it out (this is about the only time I use a timing light now...) My guess is the timing is really advanced. Turn the crank to TDC 0 degrees, get a white marker and put a little dot on the body of the distributor that is as close as you can get to the leading edge of the rotor contact and install the cap to compare where the mark is VS distributor cap plug lead post is. If the mark is to the right of it, the timing is advanced. Left of the mark is retarded timing. Another test is just start the engine in a garage at night and kill the lights - look for misfires. If it's not obvious, use a hand trigger spray bottle full of water and lay a few fine mist sprays over the plug lead paths. Orange or reddish electrical arcs = high voltage leak. Misfires and ignition timing tests aren't specific to these engines and any method described online will generally help you diagnose a problem. Luckily the ignition systems in our trucks are fairly simple.

[Onehairysalad]

Okay, so today I took a quick look before I even had my coffee, ( I have a deal with my wife that truck time is when the whole fam is comatose), so I went to actual TDC, I thought 7° BTDC was how I was supposed to set it. I cranked it, and still nothing. I marked the distributor like you said & rotor terminal is nuts on the #1 lead post. Something definitely isn't right here with the timing, & it may be beyond my feeble mechanical mind. If the ignition system is really that cut & dried, I can't find where I goofed. On a side note, I was taking a look around for any damaged wires & I found a leaky ectoplasmic mess in the cab next to the a/c vents by the steering column side, not sure what that is either...25314

[85Ram50]

I have never seen that sort of rotor and my distributor sits in there with the vacuum advance on the bottom. The middle T is TDC or zero degrees. Even that little bit off matters a LOT.

[geezer101]

You've got a bad heater tap and/or the pipes have corroded through. It's not that 'hard' to pull the entire heater box out of a Gen 1. I'd be removing it, give it a huge clean and check over the heater tap and core etc. If it's a heater control valve/tap, not so bad (should be able to scrounge one up) If it's the core or pipework, you've looking for a replacement heater unit (JY hunting time) Pulling the whole box out will allow you to get 4 decades of dog hair and dirt out of it, replace all of the perished foam seals (self adhesive foam insulation on a roll - too easy) and chemical bath the core to get the crud out of it (citric acid powder in hot water - another too easy) Heater hoses will be mix and match. I used one from a 88 Nissan Pulsar and cut it down to length and another smaller 'S' hose from something else off the shelf new. The heater box turned out like new and I managed to adjust all of the control linkages so they snap shut perfectly.

[85Ram50]

If you remove the heater stay away from the resistor in that piece under where it plugs in top right side. Don't even take the screws out. They are near impossible to find. They are no longer made. I replaced that leaking part on my heater. I got it used from a JY. It is the valve that opens and closes to let water into the heater core.

[geezer101]

^yeah that is solid advice. The screws and the resistor element generally rust in them and they are fragile. Don't ghetto fix it and bypass the heater core. This is one of those jobs that is a nuisance to do but the consequences are worse - like funky old coolant in the cab (smells awesome, ruins the carpet and underlining and turns the floor pan into a swamp...) and continuously running the risk of a cooling system failure.

Check this out - https://www.ebay.com/itm/For-Dodge-Ram-50-Mitsubishi-Mighty-Max-HVAC-Blower-Motor-Resistor-Block-FS/153052687574?epid=76838275&hash=item23a2a6acd6:g:BgYAAOSwc6Zb~ocd (for Gen 2 but might be compatible with a Gen 1)

There may be a compatible heater valve but the universal ones I've seen online will take some modifications and different hoses to get them to 'sort of' work.

[85Ram50]

Good link geez. If I were any good with electrics I could probably make that woik :) That wire on the underside is super fragile on the old gen 1's. I took one out and just the vibration of driving home a couple hours made it break up.(the coil was intact and unmoved but that stuff poured over it which is a kind of ceramic broke up and apparently that is critical to its function) It was not jostling around either. I ended up buying a whole heater from another junkyard and after I rebuilt the one I have and soaked/flushed the core with white vinegar transferred it over. It is the control for the blower motor.

[Onehairysalad]

Thanks, I'm gonna have to muscle my poor d50 into the garage, and just go at it. Thanks for the info, this all has been very helpful!