Ram 50 1988

[PrestigeWorldwide]

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Got it for $50. Too good of a deal to pass up.
I have experience as a weekend mechanic on my old 93' XJ. I'm not familiar with these trucks at all.
Already starting to dig them though.
I was tripping out when the vehicle identification plate said Mitsubishi.
PO said it was overheating(the engine turns manually with a wrench) Thats all i know.
I received it with the carb, starter valve cover and exhaust manifold removed.
To Do: find a fan, a battery, a pulley, attempt starting.
Ordered a Haynes manual from amazon(pdf?:)).

Engine Stamp
G63B
GF1950

Any advice?

[tortron]

might start with
compression check
cooling system flush

and go from there. if the heads all good it could just be an old blocked radiator

[geezer101]

Check the radiator and the rest of the cooling system. We have a thread advising new members on where to start with their first Mitsubishi truck - http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/3278-To-the-New-owner-here-you-can-find-what-people-recommend-you-do-first-and-do-it-ASAP

The G63B is an easy engine to work on so if you're a novice wrencher it's a pretty good place to start. As long as the engine hasn't experienced a catastrophic oil pressure failure you should be able to get it firing up with a little work. As requested of all new members - post pics and ask questions. Even if your engine is in bad shape, $50 is dirt cheap for a complete truck! Good luck :thumbup:

[PrestigeWorldwide]

I’m missing the crank shaft flange/plate with the mark for timing.
Looks like the PO marked the sprocket. Safe to use that old white mark? Am I gonna have to get a plate?
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[geezer101]

I would do a dummy assembly and install the crank cover and pulley to visually check the alignment, adjust it to TDC as necessary and then mark it. It really should have belt shim plate thingy in place.

[PrestigeWorldwide]

Ok, I got that figured out. The plate was there, I was ate up.
Here’s a few pics of items I’m hung up on.
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[geezer101]

Image #1 - You have a bunch of breather hoses missing from the charcoal cannister and air cleaner. The hose that's bent over the side of the rocker cover should (?) connect to one of the inlets on the charcoal can and another should go from the rocker cover to the air cleaner body (somewhere on the side...?) and I think a third one goes back from the charcoal can to the barb on the air cleaner top cover.

Image #2 - you are missing the PCV that is screwed into the rocker cover (it goes from the bridge between the intake runners on the manifold and pushes onto the 'positive crankacse ventilation' valve) There is a threaded hole where that small raised hump in the rocker cover is located.

Image #3 - The connection looks suspiciously like a diagnostic socket for an EFI truck. The welded stand-off with the 2 captive threads - I dunno...

[StarquestMan]

Image 3 is the O2 sensor connector and holder clip and the stand-off with 2 holes is for a power steering reservoir if it had PS

[geezer101]

Mystery solved :thumbup:

[PrestigeWorldwide]

Ended up having to pull the head.
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no bueno

[geezer101]

Get a head sans jet valves and it'll be up and fighting again :thumbup:

[PrestigeWorldwide]

24794
pic of the block. Looks good to me. Anything to look for?

24795247962479724798
heres the mighty max I pulled the valve cover from.
same engine model as mine. Head will match right? Gonna go pull that today. And look for a machine shop to resurface the head.

[PrestigeWorldwide]

2480424805

pulled this one. Looks like a crack to me.

[geezer101]

Looks like a crack to me too. It'll be one of those things that people start to know about and offload the problem rather than fix it. Like old Hyundais cracking radiators...

[xboxrox]

Hello PrestigeWorldwide ~ thanks for documenting your work with plenty photos; very nice :) Do you pull parts & ship worldwide [?]; California wrecking yards might have a better than average amount & quality of parts for many vehicles... That's how my truck got fixed this last time; a swell parts puller guy + my luck spotting a Ram 50 at PicknPull in Rocklin, CA = 'd one good carburetor... and now the Corona virus shutdown... To the best of my knowledge, auto parts stores, auto repair shops & wrecking yards are all considered essential & open for business... At least we can legally work on our trucks, especially if we have our own garage... Best of luck & minimum expense 'n fuss fixing your new toy...
Aloha --
George

[PrestigeWorldwide]

Hello PrestigeWorldwide ~ thanks for documenting your work with plenty photos; very nice :) Do you pull parts & ship worldwide [?]; California wrecking yards might have a better than average amount & quality of parts for many vehicles... That's how my truck got fixed this last time; a swell parts puller guy + my luck spotting a Ram 50 at PicknPull in Rocklin, CA = 'd one good carburetor... and now the Corona virus shutdown... To the best of my knowledge, auto parts stores, auto repair shops & wrecking yards are all considered essential & open for business... At least we can legally work on our trucks, especially if we have our own garage... Best of luck & minimum expense 'n fuss fixing your new toy...
Aloha --
George

Never thought about monetizing these junk yard runs. Thats not a bad idea. Especially on a half off weekend promotion.

[PrestigeWorldwide]

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Help please, is this a viable candidate for the head?

[PrestigeWorldwide]

24828

[geezer101]

It 'will' bolt on. The main differences between the G63B head and the 4G64 - none of the mechanical components will swap over. You HAVE to use the whole head and valvetrain (no biggie). The 4G64 is a hydraulic head minus the jet valves (:woo:) There may be a difference in CC volume and I would advise using the 4G64 head gasket in the minute chance the G63B head gasket will encroach the combustion chamber area. Make sure the cam turns freely in the head before taking it (if the cam is seized that head will be toast) and expect to give the head a once over as it could've been sent to the yard due to overheating or blowing smoke (valve stem seals most likely and you already know what to look for in regards to cracks). Take the head bolts as well. Everyone re-uses them and there are weird things with Mitsubishi head bolts like different shoulder length/width and bolt length depending on the engine. Fingers crossed it'll be winner winner chicken dinner :)

[PrestigeWorldwide]

It 'will' bolt on. The main differences between the G63B head and the 4G64 - none of the mechanical components will swap over. You HAVE to use the whole head and valvetrain (no biggie). The 4G64 is a hydraulic head minus the jet valves (:woo:) There may be a difference in CC volume and I would advise using the 4G64 head gasket in the minute chance the G63B head gasket will encroach the combustion chamber area. Make sure the cam turns freely in the head before taking it (if the cam is seized that head will be toast) and expect to give the head a once over as it could've been sent to the yard due to overheating or blowing smoke (valve stem seals most likely and you already know what to look for in regards to cracks). Take the head bolts as well. Everyone re-uses them and there are weird things with Mitsubishi head bolts like different shoulder length/width and bolt length depending on the engine. Fingers crossed it'll be winner winner chicken dinner :)

Awww Shit! Thank you!
Wassup with that carburetor? Is it an upgrade over mine? Also, i don't have AC. Should be pretty straight forward bolt on, this goes to that stuff yeah?

[geezer101]

That dude is EFI. Yeah you can EFI your truck but you need to take all of the ancillary stuff from the donor to make it work. Harness, ECM, distributor, fuel pump and relay - everything. And if something doesn't work or you've missed something you have to diagnose it. No fun on EFI if you haven't touched it before. If you can scavenge the A/C stuff go for it. Take any drive pulleys with it and trace the wiring to make it easier to rig up. Take anything that is part of the A/C as a missing piece could turn into a disaster to find later.

[PrestigeWorldwide]

before removal
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here it is. Looks good so far.

[xboxrox]

Nice shot ~ how will you clean & refurbish this head..? Yourself..? Send to a shop..? :thumbup: Did you notice the mileage on the odometer (?) it might indicate what is both needed or not needed on the head... Looking good...

[geezer101]

Yeah that cam is gonna need a big linish up. And the carbon build up on the valves... this head is definitely due for a freshen up.

*One thing you need to be aware of is there is no provision for a fuel pump on that head. It will need an electric fuel pump to run the carb. This is one thing I overlooked :doh:If Cali will allow you to use an electric fuel pump you will be good. There is a way around this but I don't know if you're game - the head is set up to be used for a mechanical pump as it has the threaded holes and the cut out prepared in the casting. The EFI cam even has the fuel pump lobe on it but CHECK IT FIRST or this is a no-go.
Be brave... You will need to take a big @ss drill to the pump recess and drill out the through point for the pump actuator rod.:shock:It's the only mod you would need to make to swap it over. Copy what you see on the old G63B head (and don't lose the pump spacer or break it!)

[geezer101]

*HOLD THAT THOUGHT. After reflecting on it, you would need to be precise on how to drill that rod actuator hole and I don't think most mortals could pull it off. A machine shop maybe/probably - but not a guy in an average garage without a mill or drill press...

[PrestigeWorldwide]

I’m going with using an electric fuel pump. I ordered one seen in the photo. That should work right? Also what do I do with the obsolete mechanical fuel pump? How do I remove it from the closed system?
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[85Ram50]

You canbuy a piece to block it off or make one. I made one out of sheet metal and got some shorter bolts. Use a gasket. I also plugged off the return line in the engine bay.

[geezer101]

Got a feeling popular inline 6/V8's have aftermarket block off plates that will work for the pump delete...

[PrestigeWorldwide]

http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=25792&stc=1 I’m trying to figure out where this ground goes
.

[85Ram50]

Assuming you are talking about the brass O connector. Have you had the coil off its mount? That looks like it might be the wire that is grounded under one of the mount bolts on my 85. In that area there is a ground on the frame and the battery tray.

[PrestigeWorldwide]

I ended up using the 94’ head with an electric fuel pump.
http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=25841&stc=1
I did a compression test. I’m thinking cylinders #3 & #4 are filling up at the same time. So maybe bad head installation?

I redressed the carburetor. Was a learning experience. Im concerned i got my primary and 2ndary jets mixed up. The Hanes illustration was kinda unclear.
http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=25842&stc=1
also, my fast idle cam isn’t functioning properly. After adjusting the fast idle it doesn’t return to the set position.

[tortron]

Id lean towards needing a re ring on those two because they came up when wet. They are not so low as to show a break in the head gasket between them

[tortron]

a difference of 120 and 90 on an old cold engine is not bad tbh, itl run happily for many miles id say

[geezer101]

Maybe check the head bolt torque and see if they need re-torquing? :shrug:

[Fordubishi]

If compression is more then 10% between the PSI the engine needs to either be re ringed or bores need to be oversized. Compression can also be lost through valve leaking through the seats. In that case you need to remove the head(s) and either lap the valves or take them in to get the heads rebuilt. A blown head gasket will push combustion gases into either the cooling system or Oil drain back system. Check the cooling system with the rad cap off and if you see bubbling it's pushing gases into the system. My 302 had that problem last year and the engine would show it was over heating even when the engine was running at 160-175 degrees as Air will heat up more then liquid so the sensor was getting a false reading.

Just a few things to look at, hope this helps.

[tortron]

Pressure came up when wet, so it's the rings for sure. Can do a leak down test to check the head/valves.

Did you get the engine up to running temp before you did the test? If it was on a cold engine, then I wouldn't worry about it, again on those readings, if blow by and oil consumption wasn't excessive I wouldn't worry too much. Maybe think about putting a few bucks aside for a rebuild in the future

[geezer101]

Looks like a tear-down is in this engines' future. If the bores aren't ripped up and there isn't an obvious lip on the tops of them, a set of fresh standard rings, de-glaze the bores and a once over of the head will bring it back into service. If the head hasn't come off the engine, it is definitely due for new valve stem seals anyway. Fingers crossed you don't find anything menacing in there while it's apart. The head is the most expensive part of a freshen up - factor in a head gasket kit, timing belts and tensioner, a water pump (engine is out and it'll be the best time to do it) and bare minimum new rings. Consider new alternator/AC belts, a thermostat and new hoses as well.

[PrestigeWorldwide]

Where can i find these exhaust manifold bolts?
2 of mine are done.
http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=26485&stc=1

[geezer101]

Look up metric exhaust manifold studs. Should be able to source them no problemo :thumbup: Pull a complete one out and measure it (they should be an M8 stud) 1G Talon, Lazer, Eagle, Eclipse etc will be a good place to start a search.

[PrestigeWorldwide]

http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=26489&stc=1http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=26490&stc=1
im trying to figure out where this (coolant?) port goes to on the throttle body of the carburetor.

[SubGothius]

im trying to figure out where this (coolant?) port goes to on the throttle body of the carburetor.

IIRC, that goes to the coolant tee on the intake manifold which also feeds the heater.

[PrestigeWorldwide]

thank you!
one more
http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=26491&stc=1
this guy right here. seems like a hose goes here.

[PrestigeWorldwide]

thank you!
one more
http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=26491&stc=1
this guy right here. seems like a hose goes here.

Goes to the vacuum box

[PrestigeWorldwide]

https://youtu.be/veGXGMIZ33c
new head gasket installed. dash of gas in the air cleaner. wont start. have not troubleshooted to much yet. but ive been fucking with this thing for a year. ready to be done with this. any guidance is appreciated.

[xboxrox]

https://youtu.be/veGXGMIZ33c
new head gasket installed. dash of gas in the air cleaner. wont start. have not troubleshooted to much yet. but ive been fucking with this thing for a year. ready to be done with this. any guidance is appreciated.

PLEASE DON'T GIVE UP ~ ANYTHING NEWER IS ELECTRIC OR EVEN MORE COMPUTER CONTROLLED <--- A.K.A. GOOD LUCK FIXING THEM..! MY TRUCK DROVE ME NUTS TRYING TO GET IT RUNNING OVER THE YEAR BEFORE THE PANDEMIC ~ REBUILT THE CARBURETOR, REPLACED THE DISTRIBUTOR VACUUM ACTUATOR, IGNITION COIL AND ACURATELY SET THE INITIAL, CENTRIFICAL & VACUUM ADVANCE TIMING SETTINGS ~ ALL ELSE ALL NEW (SPARK PLUGS WIRES ETC YADA YADA...)

FINALLY GOT IT TO START & RUN ~ THE ONLY THING WRONG WAS THE CARBURETOR FLOAT HAD LEAKED AND WAS FULL OF FLUID CAUSING A FLOODING CONDITION ~ DAMN HINDSIGHT IS WONDERFUL ~ SETTING THE TIMING WAS WORTH IT THOUGH, RUNS MUCH BETTER NOW

HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND GUY
Aloha ~ George
http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=26510&stc=1

[tortron]

just run through it methodically. engine only needs fuel + air, and spark (at the right time) and compression

it sounds to me like the timing is out so double check your timing marks, plug leads are going to the right plug.,


see how it turns over and then kicks back a bit, try retarding the distributor a little. maybe its out 180 degrees



some basic tests you can do in general when an engine wont start are

pull the plugs and visually inspect them while turning the engine over, you should see them all sparking if so ign is good*
put the plugs back in and spray some starting fluid down the intake
if it starts right up on the ether then you probably have a fuel delivery problem (carb jets blocked, float stuck, fuel pump issue, injectors not working)
if it chuffs and backfires and kicks back then there is probably a timing issue

compression is a bit harder to test with no tools, but you will notice it sounds funny when turning it over as the engine turns easier on the bad cylinder

[PrestigeWorldwide]

exactly what i needed, thanks guys.

[xboxrox]

With all spark plugs removed ~ A remote starter switch is handy ~ use it with ign key in ON position to test for spark @ each spark plug ~ use it with ign key in OFF position to check for compression ~ if your thumb gets blown off the spark plug hole then compression is good enuff to start & run the engine ~ good luck

Be careful with key in ON position because the engine could start ~ key in OFF position a remote starter switch will only crank the engine over but there will NOT be any spark @ the plugs

[PrestigeWorldwide]

"A remote starter switch is handy" thank you
I did rented a compression tester.
peep my numbers.
Ive been obssessed with these timing marks, this is the best ive ever got them.
I was beginning a timing belt guide that would have me remove a screw from the side of the block to the oil pump, and stick a flat head inside the hole to verify that the oil pump was timed correctly. But that screw was a flat head set screw that instantly became a job. Also, the cylinder header with cam came from a newer model D50. But TPDC should be the same on all models of upper cams right?
The engine lurching during startup is concerning, timing feels off to me to. The upper cam wasn't in the greatest condition. I have not checked spark on plugs yet.
http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=26511&stc=1http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=26512&stc=1http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=26513&stc=1http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=26514&stc=1http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=26515&stc=1

[PrestigeWorldwide]

https://youtu.be/55sN81qlh0g
todays startup attempt video

[xboxrox]

Try this: use a wooden chopstick or equivalent tool & with all spark plugs removed you should be able to rotate the engine by hand while grabbing the V belts ~ so with thumb on the #1 spark plug hole determine which stroke is compression AND watch the chopstick until it reaches high as it will go or just at the point where it begins to go down again ~ you will know where TDC (top dead center) is on the #1 cylinder ~ LOOK at the crankshaft pulley timing mark to see where it is pointing on the timing cover timing marks ~ check that both intake & exhaust valves are closed loose rocker arm gap ~ paint a blob of WHITE paint on the pulley timing NOTCH ~ remove the distributor cap check the rotor make sure it points to #1 spark plug wire & also trace the wire to it's end to ensure it's the #1 wire ~ do same for all 4 cylinders ~ if the rotor is not out by 90° or 180° degrees then it should start ~ if spark is firing at each spark plug then it must be a fuel or vacuum leak issue ???
Great Work so far ~ George

[tortron]

it "sounds" like the plug wires are mixed up tbh, it might be running on 2. but yeah if you are getting spark at each plug then its timing

[PrestigeWorldwide]

https://youtu.be/yV57Mbhi-xU
it starts!
i hears crackling. hoping just oil burning off. has not been started in who knows how long.
i have to mess with my carb for sure. the fast idle cam is messed up. the first open clearance stays closed, supposed to be .9" clearance open i believe...

[PrestigeWorldwide]

also, theres a vacuum leak at my thermo valve for sure. needs to be replaced.

[geezer101]

Definitely sounds like a misfire. Pull and test each lead individually while it's running to find the culprit. Might be a cracked insulator on a plug etc.

[boozehero]

Just read through this thread.

Note... after the engine has run through a heating cycle, warm it up again and check your compression. I bet it goes up substantially.

This is important! If you haven't replaced the balance shaft belt and the timing belt, it would be a good idea. The balance shaft belt frequently fails and can take out the main timing belt. How do you say it?
NO BUENO!!
Too bad you live in Cali... The best way to remedy the carb problems... a Weber conversion. I lived there for 1.5 years and the smog boyz are bastards.

*You have to have zero vacuum leaks. If the leak is big enough, the engine can act like it is skipping and will have a high idle or no idle at all.
*Just for a laugh, check the spark plug porcelains. If one has a crack, it will skip. This is overlooked too many times.
One other I recently encountered...
A friend's shop had done a tune up on a Chevy 4.3. It was skipping afterwards.
I isolated the skip to #6 cylinder - Know what it was?
The tech didn't check the spark plug gap and it was completely closed. Re-set gap, engine ran fine.
Another one - a carbon track or cracked distributor cap.
Maybe a bad plug wire.

I know this stuff may have been mentioned, but it doesn't hurt to check.

Good luck!