The Salvaged MM

[Low9Life4]

So for six months I have been rebuilding my '95 MM with a 4G64 and 5spd. I have done a lot of work, and much more is to come as my spare block and trans wait to be built.

At first I wanted to baja the truck. After robbing some parts off a donor truck with lowering blocks, I have changed my mind.

I will post pictures from when I first bought the truck to where it is now. Here is all the work I have done to it so far:

-Head Gasket Job
-Timing Belt/Water pump
-Exhaust (will be changed again soon)
-Bucket Seat Swap
-Cluster Circuit Board Swap
-Bed and Tailgate Swap From Donor Truck
-New Studs
-Powder Coated New Wheels
-Lowering Blocks
-Added Tachometer
-Electric Cooling Fan Conversion
-A/C Delete
-Bumper From Donor Truck (Painted to color match)
-LED 3rd Brake Light (Probably deleting after inspection)


Soon to be done:
-Clutch/Clutch Cable (Still trying to figure out the cable)
-New Doors From Donor Truck
-P/S Conversion
-LED headlight conversion

Later on:
-4G64/4G63 Head Turbo Build
-Cyro Treated Trans Build
-Fender Flares/Wide Body
-4 Link Rear

This may not sound like 6 months of work, but between stripping the trucks interior, waiting on parts, and balancing family life it has come a long ways since purchase. I have also more than likely forgot quite a few things.

[Low9Life4]

First Purchased

24610

The Bedside
24611

[Low9Life4]

New Wheels, Old Bumper, Bigger Tires
24612

New wheels, smaller tires, lowering blocks, new bed, and new painted bumper. (It's dirty and I need to figure my fenders out for larger tires.)
24613
24615
24616
24614

[geezer101]

The wheels look great. IMO you're gonna need flares on it (some pretty crazy ones too) but the contrast between the gloss black wheels and white bodywork really stands out. :thumbup:

[tortron]

some pretty wild offset on the front there. Might pay to keep an eye on your wheel bearings

[Low9Life4]

Geezer101 thanks! Yeah me and a bud are thinking about doing some custom fenders/wide body to blend into the body. I really want to do sheet metal. I know most people use fiberglass, but I'm not really too worried on weight. I'm still debating.

Tortron, yeah luckily when I changed some studs I found that the wheel bearings were new with fresh grease. I'll be routinely checking them and my ball joints every other oil change for wear. I just really like the offset, and a little faster wear on parts is fine with me on it.

Project today will be swapping my doors from the donor. Really worried about the panels. Mine are perfect and I dont want to mess them up. As the donor had different color interior.

I also need to finally measure my clutch cable to find the right length.

[89mm]

Got any tips and tricks for a head gasket job?
I plan on redoing my 89 mighty max and a little discouraged by the timing chain.

[Low9Life4]

Sorry guys, haven't been on here in quite a while! A lot has been happening.

I finally got the truck legal! The guy doing the inspection was months late due to covid. Said he was super surprised how clean it was though.

I haven't done anything else to it yet, and will be driving it instead of my daily for the next few weeks.

My next course of action will be figuring out if I can get the power I want with the 4g63 head and turboed with pump gas, or if I will need to do a V8 swap.

[B-Line]

Looks pretty good for a salvage truck.

[Low9Life4]

Looks pretty good for a salvage truck.

Yeah unfortunately they salvaged it out for a messed up bedside and bumper years before I bought it.

I also just remembered I need to get my clutch cable right.

[Low9Life4]

Can anyone please post a picture of their clutch cable at the firewall? I'm still unable to picture the actual way it is suppose to be without the previous owners rigging.

[85Ram50]

I'd recommend the manuals section but I can't find the second gen manuals in the thread "second gen manuals"

[dash]

Seen a few MMax with cable outlet at firewall all botched up and hacked/rigged.... including my D50. Why truck cost $150

My next course of action will be figuring out if I can get the power I want with the 4g63 head and turboed with pump gas, or if I will need to do a V8 swap
question is... will the 5 speed handle the hp/torque you're after ? The 4g63/4 can do whatever
Example: Near stock 2.0, 272 regrinds, $150 holset/header, auto tranny = 3000 pound street DSM ET 10.1sec
Fat torque curve, 500+ ft-lbs/500+ hp. Enough to kill most v8s & @ only half the size

[Low9Life4]

I've heard these trannies can hold a good bit. I have a spare 5 spd I'm going to tear down and have the internals cyro treated just in case.

I'm aiming for the 5-600hp range. I just haven't looked at the math yet, and no one within 2 hours of me sells E85 or race fuel.

I was able to find a good picture. It just bugs me. I want to stay cable clutch, so I will try and get it fixed properly.

[geezer101]

*With a reinforced sump/trans cover they will hold 500 HP. The problem is the gearbox housings flex and the end result is the gear sets not meshing properly, shearing teeth off them when they're pushed. Conquest had a ribbed sump on the 5 speeds to improve rigidity (think Monteros did too...?) Even with a reinforced sump, they'll bust like any other trans if they're abused. The stock clutch set up won't hold that kind of power. In the trucks the firewall flexes around the clutch cable adjuster and the sheet metal cracks. This can be overcome, by once again reinforcing the area before installing a heavy duty pressure plate for the clutch.

*there is/was a product available called a 'TUFF PAN' designed specifically for KM145/KM132 5 speed transmissions which was basically a 1/2" thick piece of billet aluminium and upgraded bolts.

[Low9Life4]

Appreciate the insight! I will look deeper into this. If I can't running about 5-600hp off pump, which I doubt I could for real streetability, then I'll be looking into 5.7L hemi swapping. I planned to 5.7 swap the daily, but it'd be interesting to try in this.

If I did go the 5.7L route, then I'll aim for about 700 on blower.

After the drivability is taken care of for now, I will be redesigning the steering and front suspension geometry. I'm going to keep the leafs in the back and run adjustable shocks.

[dash]

gearbox should live.... until you bolt on a sticky tire, then the deal's off. She'll ask for a divorce
Projectzero forum had several twincam 2.0/2.4 trucks, show you where the 5 speed packs it up
5-600hp for daily driving a rigidy ol mini pickup..... seriously ?
if u must, pump gas + water/meth, or Toluene from the hardware store - ask the buick GN crew. Decades
Only when set on kill. 2.0 Hp/tq on a pump gas tune, is more than aqequate daily street use..... for a sane person

[Low9Life4]

gearbox should live.... until you bolt on a sticky tire, then the deal's off. She'll ask for a divorce
Projectzero forum had several twincam 2.0/2.4 trucks, show you where the 5 speed packs it up
5-600hp for daily driving a rigidy ol mini pickup..... seriously ?
if u must, pump gas + water/meth, or Toluene from the hardware store - ask the buick GN crew. Decades
Only when set on kill. 2.0 Hp/tq on a pump gas tune, is more than aqequate daily street use..... for a sane person

It won't be a full-time daily. I have my quad cab for that. I want it to be street worthy enough though to turn the key and drive it when I want though.

I have had a 600whp single cab truck as my sole daily before. It really ain't that bad. Trying to squeeze 125+hp per cylinder out of a 4 banger on pump is kind of pushing it I believe. It can be done, but I think it'd be pretty aggressive and harder to keep cool in traffic.

Plus, once I completely re-engineer the front suspension and add my adjustable rear shocks it won't ride too rough. Not more than what you'd expect for something static dropped a couple inches on offset.

I think I'm going to 17 inch wheels for street, and a set of 15s to put radials on.

All this is still up in the air. I won't get a good start until I get moved into my new garage.

[geezer101]

You'll get better power to the ground using an LSD. The factory LSD is not made for dumping big HP through but added traction will help. It's long been an idea that S10 coil overs will work on the Max with some modification, and I have looked at Mustang II front coil overs as an option (conversion kits for them are relatively affordable) You would need to use the lowest rated springs you can get as the truck is pretty light and it'll feel 'crashy' on undulating roads and pot holes.

[dash]

I have had a 600whp single cab truck as my sole daily before. It really ain't that bad
Not in a mini pickup... it is that bad. What will you do with 600 ?
Tire slip is the only chance at that 5 speed staying together..... so u slide all over the place trying to 'use' that power

Trying to squeeze 125+hp per cylinder out of a 4 banger on pump is kind of pushing it I believe. It can be done, but I think it'd be pretty aggressive and harder to keep cool in traffic.
Hot DSMs keep cool with no frontal area... reckon a truck would be worse ?
Good thing is, no need to guess at what a 4G can or cannot do. Combos been done to death

if 700hp prescibed for a trip to walmart, or local cruise spot, etc... that pump gas 700hp blown hemi sounds like the ticket

[tortron]

Lol even my truck was hardly drivable coming out of intersections without wider tyres and an LSD, i cant imagine another couple hundred HP being translated into forward momentum

[Low9Life4]

I go to meets and cruises. I also live around a lot of rural country. 700hp is manageable on the street if you have adequate throttle control. I will of course have different tunes to load from a standalone ecu. So, it also won't be the hot 700 tune all the time.

If I want to take a trip in my 700hp grocery getter then yes, I suppose I would. Again, this truck isn't to daily. It is getting built mainly for street digs and strip. With that said, it will see some normal driving around town and on trips out of state.

I'm going to stay with offset style wheels, and of course go a lot wider. The 15×8's were free and are temporary for mainly just seeing what I want to do. The goal is between a 12 to 14 wide on street and radials.

If I go 5.7L route, which I'm sure I will at this point or similar, the trans I decide to go with will be built accordingly with a rear end to match. I know from experience that drag racing is definitely harder wear and tear on a manual trans, but I'm not really too concerned.

There are definitely 4Gs pushing the 1200hp range. So I know they are pretty capable.

[Low9Life4]

Also, you can put about 600 down on the street with a good suspension tune, air pressure, and driver. Yes, even in a mini truck. 700 is pushing it for anything, but I plan to use all of it at the local drag strip.

[dash]

I will of course have different tunes to load from a standalone ecu. So, it also won't be the hot 700 tune all the time
how would you turn the boost down on the blower ocasionally ?

I'm going to stay with offset style wheels.... The goal is between a 12 to 14 wide on street and radials.
exactly what are 'offse style wheels' ?
12-14 inch wide wheels on a mini, is just as wack as the street 700hp idea

you can put about 600 down on the street with a good suspension tune, air pressure, and driver. Yes, even in a mini truck
A toyota 4cyl powered mini turck gone 7s on stock leaf spring rear
what is your 'good suspension tune' on the leaf spring rear ?

There are definitely 4Gs pushing the 1200hp range. So I know they are pretty capable
Dunno where 1200 comes in, but you seem to think a 500hp 4G suffers overheating issues in traffic
A stock 4G dyno'd 600 - stock cams, stock cam gears, no spray. Too aggresive ?

[Low9Life4]

You can put down 600hp on the street in a leaf spring suspension, adjustable shocks, small pickup. I know because I have built, tuned, and driven them.

I would run the bigger pulley unless on the track with a very conservative tune for just driving it around.

A stock 4G making 600hp? It's not considered stock if it is just the block and cams. The stock bottom end couldn't hold anywhere near that. Even so, thats still a lot of money invested into something you can't run 94 in, which is my current issue. If I had e85 or race fuel closer I would stay with the 4G.

12-14 wide on a mini pushing 700hp isn't "wack". The street wheels/tires will be mainly for the looks, but still have a sticky tire on them. The radials will be closer to a 12 wide wheel, maybe 10 if I need to go down to hook better. It's knowing how to build something to go down the track/street. You're literally objectifing to things I have personally done.

I don't know the overlap on the stock cams, as I have never built a 4G, but it is just safe to assume to make 600hp out of a 4 cylinder it is going to be a little more aggressive to drive it on the street. Considering you are pulling more than 125hp from each cylinder, you will need a good amount of boost, and usually large amounts of boost work better with cams that allow it to enter the combustion chambers as fast as possible. So again, idk the stock dohc specs. Maybe they like high boost. Either way, I don't want to be driving it on the street with it constantly at its limits on just premium octane fuel, or having to have the boost always turned way up to be near my goal. I always build something rated for more than what I drive it for. For example, my 600hp 383 could of handled another 200 shot if I wanted. But I left it on the table.

Yes, there are 1200hp 4Gs. Same as 1200HP K24s and 2Js. They can do it, it's just how much money you have.

[Low9Life4]

Adjustable shocks on leaf setups to help launch and travel.

Offset wheels. Wheels that have a larger backspacing giving the vehicle more stance.

And again, as for the s/c to make sure you understand. If I run a pulley that will give me 12-15psi to make 700Hp then I can swap a bigger pulley to make down to 8-10psi with a tune loaded up that is a lot more conservative. This will make street driving more efficient.

[dash]

A stock 4G making 600hp? It's not considered stock if it is just the block and cams. The stock bottom end couldn't hold anywhere near that.
https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/holset-hx35w-dyno-stock-head-block-606-awhp.490819/
tell him (and others) what a stock DSM can or cannot hold then .... on a $150 used turbo at that
what are your 1/4 mile ET goals
and what are "offset style wheels" ?

[dash]

larger backspacing means less outter lip then? .... as in wheels tucked underbody, as opposed to not sticking out
you'll run more negative offset you're saying
"offset style" makes no sense, to me at least

[dash]

I meant more positive offset. Can't edit

[Fordubishi]

Most 600+ hp 4G63's are dyno queens....... A few guys here have them and they don't make squat for power below 4500rpm. Boost comes on and they hit peak boost around 6500-7000rpm and hit rev limiter at 8000. Funny as hell that a 720hp 4g63 is slower then a 400hp Mustang, but looks impressive on a dyno sheet.

I really hate to say this but unless you have tons of money don't use the garbage 5.7L Hemi they are unreliable. Granted for $25000+ you can build a nice 600-800hp one. You're better off with an LS with a couple of turbos or a supercharger.(and I hate chevys) Even a Ford Coyote (5.0) with 10lbs boost will make around 650-700whp for less money then what it would cost to build a 5.7L. Trans is easy just get a Magnum 600XL from Americian Power Train (around $4000 Complete) Diff easy again Ford 8.8, 9" or a 12 bolt Chevy. The nice thing about the Ford and Chevy is there is TONS of aftermarket support for those engines.

600-700hp is very streetable with the right gearing and suspension set up. Built a 08 Mustang with 578rwhp for a customer (around 650bhp) and it his daily summer driver. Think of it this way most "New" cars push over 300hp and that's in a freaking mini van. Going back to the 80's a fast car (Mustang, Camaro) were running 200-250bhp where now the same cars are pushing well over 400hp and only weigh 600-700lbs more with all the crash safety systems. Hell my D-50 with around 350hp is real easy to drive even when I push it, the thing act like a normal car till I hit around 2800rpm then it wakes up till 7600rpm and pulls like a small fright train.

It all comes down to the way the engine is set up and where the power comes on. If you're using it below say 3000 rpm it's acts no differently then a normal current daily driver.But mash the go fast peddle and HANG ON !!!!!!

[Low9Life4]

Thank you! People don't understand that there is a difference between dyno sheets and actual performance. I can make a stock 305 hit over 400hp with spray, but it will still be slow.

As far as the 5.7L, I have been looking into parts, including the Johnson lifters with the oil squirter design, and it is pretty expensive. So many people have LS swapped things, and I hate it, but I might have to. I'm a Chevy person, but the LS has been overdone.

Man the Coyote 5.0 is nasty. Intake, cams, headwork, blower, exhaust, tune will get you close to 700hp or more on stock bottom end.

I drive like a grandpa, shifting st 2k or 2500 rpms most days, so yeah, again you get it.

[Low9Life4]

It would be considered negative offset. I typically say they are more or larger backspacing because of how much they protrude out the fenders, but the correct term is negative offset.

[dash]

Most 600+ hp 4G63's are dyno queens....... A few guys here have them and they don't make squat for power below 4500rpm. Boost comes on and they hit peak boost around 6500-7000rpm and hit rev limiter at 8000. Funny as hell that a 720hp 4g63 is slower then a 400hp Mustang, but looks impressive on a dyno sheet.
You can find garbage examples of anything. That example used a crappy ebay header and big plenum intake.... what spool did u expect ?
Didn't schedule the dyno, suspected 500hp but made 600. Life must suck, eh
https://www.homemadeturbo.com/new-member-introductions-42/lurked-long-enough-time-say-hello-118516/
here is a DSM, same $150 turbo except on a diy paired runner header/oe intake + 272 reginds. Datalog shows 27psi @3093rpm!!
= EXCELLENT response and torque curve. What more would you want..... to enter a rod-bending contest ?
That's a 2.0L 3000 pound street car running a 10.1sec 1/4 mile ET. Life must suck with that slowwwww car

[dash]

It would be considered negative offset. I typically say they are more or larger backspacing because of how much they protrude out the fenders, but the correct term is negative offset.
Nope, you got that wrong also. Larger backspace tuck wheels inward = positive offset. Google it

[dash]

Low9, what ET r u chasing ?
For me, mid 10sec accelration in a buick GN is the limit..... bordering insane for public roads

[Low9Life4]

I'm not wrong. I wrong the wheels to stick out the fender wells, not inward....

I'm going to be chasing an 8 second truck.p

[Low9Life4]

*want

Also, again the power will be way down on the street. Eventually I'll be over 1kHP. But right now 700hp and running high 9s would be fine.

[dash]

https://www.discounttiredirect.com/learn/offset-backspace

Backspacing is an older system of measurement to determine how deep the mounting pad is located in the wheel.
Positive offset creates more backspace, while negative offset reduces backspace
https://cdn.discounttire.com/sys-master/images/hcb/hab/8813559054366/EDUwheel-offset_backspacing.png

It would be considered negative offset. I typically say they are more or larger backspacing because of how much they protrude out the fenders, but the correct term is negative offset.
then u r 'typically' wrong on the backspacing.... u want less or smaller backspacing = negative offset

Offset wheels. Wheels that have a larger backspacing giving the vehicle more stance
that is nonsense as well
.
DSM posted don't have much invested in it AT ALL - compact, ridiculous acceleration, superb drivability, ez/best fit, all mitsu......
b interesting to see what this v8 drivetrain gonna cost
So we've gone from, "Imma cyro my 5speed" ..... to a blown hemi 'pushin' 1000hp on pump gas

[geezer101]

It is a dangerous game throwing numbers around without knowing what they mean. The truck has a good power to weight ratio compared to other similar trucks. There are bolt in options that'll make gains without a lot of messing around and changing ratios will improve acceleration. I had a beat up Chrysler Galant wagon (Dodge Colt) that I swapped a stock 4G52 and A904 auto into. I did nothing to it except have to cut down the tail shaft. It was almost undrivable in the wet (even with 15x7's wrapped in Dunlop track tyres) and humiliated most V8's and tuned imports. Nobody believed that it wasn't turbo'd or had a bigger engine in it than a stock single cam 2 litre...

[Low9Life4]

I WANT to run the 4G64/63 with a cyro treated 5 speed. HOWEVER, I will not meet the goals. I want with the setup on pump gas and consider the truck to still be streetable. I have been looking into doing a Hemi swap, but also stated it is up for speculation atm. Looking at the cost to make power (my current goal is 700hp, not 1000hp, please read) with the Hemi I might go a different route. I might not. I've got a build sheet I am putting together on different engines to weigh the pros and cons.


So yes, on the backspacing "technically" I was wrong in the way I was describing it.

[claych]

It is a dangerous game throwing numbers around without knowing what they mean. The truck has a good power to weight ratio compared to other similar trucks. There are bolt in options that'll make gains without a lot of messing around and changing ratios will improve acceleration. I had a beat up Chrysler Galant wagon (Dodge Colt) that I swapped a stock 4G52 and A904 auto into. I did nothing to it except have to cut down the tail shaft. It was almost undrivable in the wet (even with 15x7's wrapped in Dunlop track tyres) and humiliated most V8's and tuned imports. Nobody believed that it wasn't turbo'd or had a bigger engine in it than a stock single cam 2 litre...

^^
Very Humble respects to the Board--
geezer 101 perhaps You should concentrate on producing a running vehicle ---

[geezer101]

Love to :thumbup:

[xboxrox]

geezer is too busy helping us fix our problems ~ he don't have time to fix his own ~ volunteer minions needed in Australia, decent wages, transportation not included ~ claych you wanna spend the summer helping geezer wrench on his truck ?
:lmao:

[Chargerx3]

This thread truly “delivers”. ROFL!