KM130 backup switch bearing ball.

[85Ram50]

Summary- Found out I had missed the ball when I removed the switch years ago. I did some searching yesterday and found these two links; http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/1359-Reverse-light-switch and https://mechanics.stackexchange.com/questions/1413/alternative-reverse-light-switch

I expect 4Door civ used the 7mm ball he had. The second link mentions using two balls but does not say what size the two were(the Triton is the name given the Mighty Max Aus) Someone else in that link names the size 5/16 which is just before 8mm in size. I got one and put it in. The light stayed on no matter what gear. I got another and put it in and could not take the trans out of reverse. When I pulled the switch the 2nd ball was stuck to the end of the switch. When I removed it the plunger was permanently stuck in. At first I thought it was the grease but now it seems it was compressed on to it. I inserted a magnet on the other end of a metal scribe and the first ball I put in did not come out. I got in and it moves through all gears with it off no clutch which is normal for this unit.
So where is the other ball? Is it now a random explosion waiting to go off in my trans? What is the exact correct size of ball? Since it seem it must be larger than 5/16 or on the other hand maybe RA sent me the wrong switch and the plunger was not long enough? It was only when I added the second ball that I felt resistance on screwing the switch in as if the plunger were compressing. The stack exchange link explains how the switch works too.

I can't drive it until I unload the gravel in it I'll update then. Should be only a day or two.
EDIT- Just in case what kind of trans upgrade can I put behind the G63B?

[BJH324JH]

There is other switches in the transmission that also contain metal balls as they too are momentary switches. I can only hope the metal balls for all these switches are of the same size. I'm going to try and use a ball from another switch in the transmission and hope it works out. If it does I will be taking the ball to an automotive store and ask if they have a bearing with balls of the same size.

[geezer101]

The 5 speed is a good transmission. Fairly strong and reliable for a stock gearbox. They suffer from failure due to either abuse or a big increase in HP. Fitting a 'tuff-pan' type sump plate stops the transmission case from flexing. The KM130 is a 4 speed right?

[85Ram50]

Yes this is the 4sp trans.
Is there a correct procedure as in the idea I had that it should be in reverse before removing the switch? Seems like the ball should stay put regardless of the gear it was in. When I stuck the magnet in it felt like I was hitting a flat piece of metal when it bottomed out. IDK how to explain that.

[85Ram50]

There is other switches in the transmission that also contain metal balls as they too are momentary switches. I can only hope the metal balls for all these switches are of the same size. I'm going to try and use a ball from another switch in the transmission and hope it works out. If it does I will be taking the ball to an automotive store and ask if they have a bearing with balls of the same size.
I was hoping I didn't have to open this trans up. My body isn't up to much more this season. Once I get the bed empty I am going to drain the fluid and hope the bearing falls out. Can you take that bottom plate off without anything falling out?

[LSR Mike]

Yes the bottom plate can come off without loosing anything but oil and broken bits...

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[BJH324JH]

You are going to want to drain the transmission before removing the pan. Only if you don't want yourself drenched in oil. Prepare yourself with new oil, gasket and aluminum washers for the drain and filler plugs. Hope you find that darn ball.

[85Ram50]

OK Alum washers and gasket. I have a couple Liters Valvoline 80W-90 gear oil. Is that good enough or should I have a different weight? Can I safely rotate the trans by running the motor with it open a few rotations if I have the wheels off the ground? I was thinking the ball might fall out that way if not by draining it. i'm going to put a magnet inside by the drain when I close it back up too.

[85Ram50]

Had to order a gasket set on RA as no one in town had one. What the heck are all the other gaskets for? I can't even imagine what they might go on. I also ordered another backup light switch. If it weren't for the interwebs most of these truck would got tits up. EDIT- I found nothing about washers or bolts for the pan.

[geezer101]

The magnet is a good idea but it had better be a rare earth magnet. I am sure you can buy aftermarket magnetic sump plugs - might be worth exploring. Has anyone had experience with 'Petron Plus' friction modifier? I saw a youtube vid where a guy does an engineering controlled test with about 8 different products and the Petron was just freaky. I think this stuff would make a noticeable impact in a transmission.

[85Ram50]

Why rare earth? I figured a magnet was a magnet. Never heard of 'Petron Plus'.

[pennyman1]

the ball won't be in the pan area unless you have real problems with the case. A good place to get a rare earth magnet is out of an old computer hard drive.

[geezer101]

Rare earth magnets are really powerful. A standard magnet might jolt free of the pan if you hit a decent enough bump (imagine it sailing towards your gears - not good...) O.k I'll give you the ejakayshun I got one evening cruising youtube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt_Dh3hHr6o
The dude doing the demo is as boring as watching your lawn grow but the test he is running was really surprising.

[LSR Mike]

Transmission manual is here

http://mmeierle.com/mighty%20max%20info.htm

[85Ram50]

Transmission manual is here

http://mmeierle.com/mighty%20max%20info.htm

Thanks for that. Since it is in Aussie, is my 85 Ram 50 G63B 2wd the Exp L200-2wd 4G63? Making the trans model of the KM130 the R5M21-5-DI4
EDIT- I may need a while to figure out what this manual is saying I can't make heads or tails of it yet. I get the pictures though :)

Pennyman in a hard drive!? Wouldn't that magnet destroy the data? I'll see if I want to sacrifice one of them. BTW is it possible I pushed the ball through into the gearing? or should it be there at the bottom of the hole?

[85Ram50]

I see in the several diagrams in the trans manual that the backup light switch has a gasket. How thick is that gasket?
Edit- I think its the round gasket in the gasket set.

[geezer101]

The 5 speed in D-50's with a G63B engine are the KM132. Double checked it against Project Zero G

http://projectzerog.com/transmissions.shtml

[85Ram50]

Thanks Geez. I got it unloaded and moved it a few feet today. There was nothing unusual but it was only a few feet. I'm leaning toward the idea that there is nothing wrong from my attempts to make the switch work. I hope it holds out long enough for me to get the shop done.

[LSR Mike]

The Rare Earth magnet in a Hard Drive is part of the read/write head servo positioning, so it is away from the disk magnetic media coating where the 1's and 0's are located. I have one stuck to the side of my toolbox for those tough to get at bolt & screw retrieval missions.

[BJH324JH]

According to the Chilton manual, the recommended lubricant for the manual transmission would be, "API classification GL-4. SAE 75W-90 or 75W-85W" gear oil. The drain plug already has a magnet in it, but, I think that a stronger magnet wouldn't be a bad idea. Just make sure to secure it as best as you can. As for the backup light switch crush washer, you can probably reuse the old one by annealing it. Your auto parts store should carry some crush washers, I bought some in copper and hope they work as well as the aluminum ones. I'm also going to be applying gasket sealant #2 to the threads of all the switches on the transmission.

[geezer101]

I am thinking that using a synthetic low friction additive wouldn't be a bad idea. The transmission is one place that not only cops a lot of abuse, but also causes some level of parasitic loss of energy (this could equate to a percentage of fuel consumption and loss of torque). I've seen Slick 50 on the market for a long time but wasn't completely sold on it (it's expensive and it doesn't hold up any better than most other additives or even SAE rated oil). The test in the video I posted up pretty much confirmed that statement. But the Petron additive was really a surprise. Bit steep for a bottle but if it gives the result in that video, well I'd be prepared to hand over the cash.

[85Ram50]

The FSM says API GL-4 MOPAR hypoid gear oil with no specified weight. I just read the quarts I have they are Valvoline High Performance 80W-90 API GL-4 and API GL-5 for differentials and API GL-5 for non-synchronized manual transmissions. So it looks like a trip back to the farm store to see if I can exchange these.

[85Ram50]

Ended up trading them in. I had to go to a auto parts store and got Redline MT-90 which was GL-4. Also found a transfer pump I hope works as claimed. Parts guy told me he had used some GL-5 in his VW that called for GL-4 and said it made it almost impossible to shift. Also said GL-5 can eat brass retainers. ?? don't know about the second one but I have heard similar things about the wrong kind of fluid causing problems.

[geezer101]

After a bit of research it appears GL-5 may not be ideal for 'yellow metal' internals (brass bushes, bronze synchros and copper). Where there's a chance of heat* being introduced into the equation, the component of the GL-5 that makes it low friction can attack brass (sulphur/phosphor) There is a corrosion inhibitor added to GL-5 but this gear oil is only suitable for transmissions specifying GL-5 oil.

*the estimated temperature is 300 deg but not all GL-5 oils are the same. I'd stick to GL-4. I would bet good money even with the corrosion inhibitors, eventually they will start eating brass/bronze. Add that to a 30+ year old transmission and nothing good will come out of it.

[pennyman1]

Redline MT-90 is the way to go, although I am using royal purple in Geronimo for many years without issues. Don't remember if it is a gl-4 or gl-5, but the gl-5 also usually has anti-slip additives that may be the source of the corrosion of brass parts. I always read not to use gl-5 in manual trannys but never got a good explanation other than it would cause shifting problems when cold.

[4doorciv]

Amsoil manual trans fluid for me. Expensive though.

[BJH324JH]

I got this from O'Reilly:
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I am starting to regret my purchase after researching Gl-5 rated oil. GL-5 is one hell of a confusing oil! Some people love it, some hate it. A lot of people on various forums say that GL-5 corrodes "yellow metal". The KM-145 Transmission definitely has "yellow metal" in it. I just opened the transmission and can confirm it does. You can even Google KM145 transmission rebuild kit, an amazon link should pop up. Click on it and look at the picture, you can see what appears to be brass gears. Now what confuses me is people on various oil forums saying the newer versions of GL-5 wont corrode "yellow metal". Others say it does. WHICH IS IT!!! To fortify my confusion, the masterpro oil I bought from O'Reilys says it is compatible with manual transmissions and I quote, "Suitable for use where the following API service designations apply: GL-2, GL-3, GL-4, and GL-5." I'm going to have to find a number to call the people that make the stuff for O'Reilys and get an answer from them...

Update: Just called the manufacturer that makes this oil and they said it is not compatible with yellow metal.

[85Ram50]

I'm not inclined to argue with the specs in the FSM just yet. I don't have the experience. I have the feeling that if I would have used the Valvoline I would not have noticed any problems for a while if at all but I'd rather do what the manual says to be safe. I expect the Valvoline was ok for GL-4 differentials because they are all steel.

I just had the idea that I could spray a WD-40 or some brake cleaner into the open hole of the Backup light switch and maybe that would help the first 5/16 ball come out. I'm hoping I did not crush it in there. 4door I am waiting for a new switch when it comes I will hook it up and test it before trying to install it.

EDIT- Question, what is the correct procedure for installing the backup light switch? There is no mention of it in the FSM.

[geezer101]

If the ball bearing doesn't drop out on it's own accord, you may be in for some trouble. The switch plunger has some travel in it before the switch circuit opens. The switch is a straight forward affair to install. Hold the ball in place, make sure you have the crush washer installed on the switch and screw it in until it is firmly seated, then plug it into the loom. IDK if there's a torque spec for it but it'll be common sense not to wrench hell out of it or leave it hand tight so it leaks oil.

[BJH324JH]

Here is what I did to install the backup light switch with it's accompanying headache inducing steel ball(5/16 inch.).

1. Put manual transmission in neutral.
2. Insert steel ball into threaded transmission hole while at the same time threading in the backup light switch. (Be patient, this part is tricky)
3. Tighten it with a 19mm wrench just snug enough. REMEMBER, IT IS TWENTY PLUS YEAR OLD ALUMINUM YOU ARE THREADING INTO.
4. Reconnect wires and test. If backup light switch is not working as it should, it is most likely bad. Don't forget to add the crush washer before threading back in the back up light switch. I would also recommend adding sealant to the threads.

Some other stuff related to the backup light switch: To make removing and installing the backup light switch easier, I modified it. Soldered on some new wires to the back up light switch with crimped on female insulated bullet connectors on the other end. For the other wire, I crimped on male insulated bullet connectors. This little modification makes working on the truck much better. I had ripped the wire so many times while removing and installing it that it just got on my nerves! Mitsubishi, you knew you could have done better!

Disconnected:
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Connected:
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[85Ram50]

I figure I at least wedged it in there when I tried with the second ball. IDK why the new switch didn't work with the single 5/16 ball. I'll test this one before I try installing it and I will really try to get the first ball out. Otherwise I may need to rig up a manual switch.
Thanks BJ mine has bullet connectors.

EDIT 7-22-20 In case you are reading this it should be in Neutral when installing the backup light switch. I was not in neutral when I installed the first one.

[geezer101]

... I had ripped the wire so many times while removing and installing it that it just got on my nerves! Mitsubishi, you knew you could have done better!

This isn't entirely Mitsubishi's fault in regards to this design. If you take a look at how the truck was assembled in factory you'll notice a few things that make working on it suck. That centre pinion carrier bearing in the 2 piece tail shaft is a shi(ite)ning example. The drivetrain was installed prior to the tub body being bolted down so the easy way to replace the carrier bearing is to take off the tray (which will take as long as busting your hands and eating dirt trying to get it from underneath).The connection to the reversing switch is roughly in line with the forward plug to the tail light assemblies - so it's logical to assume the first intention was to speed the assembly process up while fitting the tub body. And probably to reduce the risk of it being fouled or caught up during it's life.

85Ram- when you say the switch "doesn't work" do you mean no reverse lights or constant reverse lights? If it's no lights there might be a break further up the wiring loom.

[BJH324JH]

I figure I at least wedged it in there when I tried with the second ball. IDK why the new switch didn't work with the single 5/16 ball. I'll test this one before I try installing it and I will really try to get the first ball out. Otherwise I may need to rig up a manual switch.
Thanks BJ mine has bullet connectors.

Curious, did you modify or did it come from the factory like that?

[BJH324JH]

This isn't entirely Mitsubishi's fault in regards to this design. If you take a look at how the truck was assembled in factory you'll notice a few things that make working on it suck. That centre pinion carrier bearing in the 2 piece tail shaft is a shi(ite)ning example. The drivetrain was installed prior to the tub body being bolted down so the easy way to replace the carrier bearing is to take off the tray (which will take as long as busting your hands and eating dirt trying to get it from underneath).The connection to the reversing switch is roughly in line with the forward plug to the tail light assemblies - so it's logical to assume the first intention was to speed the assembly process up while fitting the tub body. And probably to reduce the risk of it being fouled or caught up during it's life.

85Ram- when you say the switch "doesn't work" do you mean no reverse lights or constant reverse lights? If it's no lights there might be a break further up the wiring loom.

I love Mitsubishi, just weird that they didn't put bullet connectors on the backup light switch while the rest of the switches on the transmission do have bullet connectors.

[85Ram50]

BJ As far as I can tell this is the way it was wired when I bought it. The switch from rock auto has bullet connectors.
Geez the lights stayed on full time any gear and neutral until I broke the new switch. The plunger is stuck all the way in permanently. I'm hoping to determine that the switch will turn them off when I test it tomorrow. I can stand alongside and do that since the top half of the wire is free so I can just plug it in standing by the engine bay and walk back while holding the switch to see if the lights go on and off as I push the plunger. I'm going to have to go get a crush washer. Are they standard for each size? or do the have different amounts of crush?

[geezer101]

You'll find that the copper washers will crush to whatever torque you're applying to them. I have a feeling copper crush washers are all the same thickness (1/16"). Not thick enough to alter the switch sensitivity by much. You can unplug the switch and feed the wiring extension from the engine bay a fair way out (maybe 3 feet?) which is more than enough for you to be able to test it by hand. It should switch off and on easily with your thumb.

[85Ram50]

Thanks. I should say that when the switch is plugged in the lights come on and stay on period. Even the new switch that was clearly broken though I did not know it until I removed it, kept the lights on until I disconnected the wires. As I write I get the feeling that might be significant since as I understand the function when the plunger is depressed the lights go off. OK I just went and plugged the new switch in and it turns the light off when I depress the plunger. So it is definitely something to do with the hole. :)

[85Ram50]

OK the second new backup switch is working! I took pout the one I broke sprayed a bit of WD40 in there and I was wiping down the trans thinking about how I might pry out the lost ball and the ball fell out! It still had the grease on it. Maybe that grease affected the first new switch and prevented it from coming out the last time? Anyway I sprayed out the hole real good with WD-40 let it dry out then put the ball and switch in. It was in Neutral, there was no light then put it in reverse and the light came on.

Conclusions- 5/16 ball works. Don't us the dab of grease I suggested to hold the ball in place. Instead jack up the truck and support it with jack stands because you will be under it up to your belly at least with both arms installing this thing. I also found it helpful to have the wire tail hang out over the exhaust pipe until it is fully in. Have trans in Neutral when working with the backup switch.

I have the bottom pan off and sprayed the trans and pan with engine cleaner to get the cooked on oil off it. Probably do the oil pan gasket next. If you get the gasket set for the trans there is a soft plastic reusable washer for the plug in it.

Thanks for all the help guys!

EDIT- I got the trans filled. The hole is on the driver side 17mm Here is a picture of the pump I found for $7.99 I put the hose in the hole and did the job standing alongside the truck with the bottle sitting on the air cleaner cover. It drives a lot better. I may have put the wrong kind of juice in the last time I drained it. The top hole sucks the bottom blows. I primed the top hole with a drop of oil and a few pumps before sticking the hoses onto it. It works perfectly until the bottle gets low then you need two more hands. Oh yea the pan may be square but the holes aren't aligned as if it were. There is a front to the pan and the gasket. I soaked the gasket in oil like the Weber carb kit suggests and as long as you can keep the pan flat it works a treat :)
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