Glass fuses: what if I pull 1 out at a time? TMI sorry

[tink]

Ugh I don't know where to start. Weeks ago the starter went bad on the truck, I replaced it. The gear in the starter was super wobbly so was told it was indeed bad & probably the factory installed starter -- old. Then a week 1/2 or so ago the truck wouldn't start & the starter made that grinding noise. I took the new starter back off, and down to the store to have it tested, it tested fine so I reinstalled it. Added dialectic grease to the starter connection, the alternator connection, and some other grease to the battery posts (it was specifically for battery posts). Truck started right up, cool.

Then last Thursday it didn't want to start & I checked the battery to see it was only 55% charged. Charged it up & truck started fine, ran fine and then a couple days ago it did the same damn thing, no start, battery too low, right around 50% charged.

So now it seems there's a problem with the battery staying charged enough to start the truck RANDOMLY. It seems to be on a 3-day pattern... but not sure yet.

Here's whats happening: the truck will start & run fine but then I park it & go to leave again either within the same hour or the next morning & the battery doesn't have enough charge for the starter - when the battery is hooked up to the charger it shows somewhere around 50% charged but only takes 15-20 minutes to charge up to 100% and then the truck starts up.

Yesterday I carried the battery (it's a sealed kind not the kind to add water) into the store & the tester said the battery was fine. (Yeah, I had just charged it at home & only drove 2-3 miles to the parts store.) I don't know if the bench test for the battery shows if it will hold a charge or not. The parts store guy came out and tested the battery in the truck while running. He said he could also test the alternator while it was installed & vehicle on.

Ok, so he said that there's a constant "draw" on the battery ... and apologized for not being able to help me more. The machine he hooked up wouldn't stop beeping, so I don't know if he was able to actually test the batt/alternatory while the truck was running but for sure the tester was showing a draw at idling. Later on that day I noticed that while he was testing it the heater TEMP control was set to hot, even though the fan was "off", maybe that could have caused a draw?

After the testing i drove it another 40 miles, no problem, been fine since, started up fine 3 times now.

Not knowing much about electric stuff I suspect that either:
1. When I put dialectic grease on the plug in to the alternator maybe I moved a wire that broke it or frayed it inside?
2. When putting in/out the old starter & the new starter twice, maybe I pulled to hard on the group of wires that's inside the plastic cover tube that's bolted to the driver's side of the engine and maybe damaged one of those wire(s)
3. Maybe there's a problem with the solenoid part of the new/rebuilt starter
4. Maybe it's a fuse or a bad ground
5. Maybe I pulled on a wire putting in/out the starter somewhere under the intake manifold /carb area without realizing it at the time so now something's loose - can't see sh*t down there without a mirror & flashlight

GRRR. So I know basically nothing about electric stuff, and went to youtube (dangerous yeah) to watch & learn about a parasitic draw ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF1gijj03_0 ) BUT my question is, if I follow the Youtube advice, will my truck fry some parts? The video said to hook up the voltmeter set on amps and then start pulling fuses one by one, to find which circuit has the draw by when the voltmeter reading shows the draw amps go way down. Is it safe to do that in this 1st gen truck with glass fuses?

The other problem is that I don't actually KNOW for certain that there's a draw on the battery when the engine is off & the key is out & basically nothing is 'on'. I'm just thinking of starting here because I don't know where else to start, or how to do any testing myself with the truck engine running. Obviously have to start somewhere & fuses seem simple enough :)

Would you just go buy a new battery anyway? There's no marks on the battery to show how old it is... but hate to put out $70 when it's something I did wrong.

Would you take off the alternator & have them bench test that since (apparently/assuming) the store parts testing guy couldn't test the alternator because of the "draw"? The alternator was the only new looking part on the whole damn truck when I bought it a year+ ago.

Would you not do anything except test the battery every dang time you got home to see what charge % it's at & try to figure out what you did different each trip? Or maybe how many freeway/city miles before it draws too much for the alternator to keep the battery charged enough?

It sucks not knowing what the words mean about amps & using the voltmeter is a steep learning curve. looking for where to start advice or any clue really appreciated. Wondering how guys figure this crap out, and once again spending more countless hours on youtube car repair vids.

Is it just best to install an after-market voltmeter gauge to watch that like a hawk to figure out a pattern or charging problem??? Or is it assinine to hook up yet another 'draw' source on to the battery / charging system at this point?

[royster]

Hey Tink.

Here's the dumbest question I could summons up: is the dome light on or an engine compartment light?

Just a dumb question. I like asking them: they're easy to come by :)

[tink]

If the dome light ever was on I'd never know it... it's been bulbless for years :( same goes for the engine compartment light
BUT THAT's a fantastic dumb question!!! Because the drivers door was open during the test, and of course the hood was up so if there ever was an engine compartment light, it would have been 'on'... didn't ever see a spot for a light under the hood but I'll look now that you mentioned it.

I think I'll do what I can for the grounds/checking out all the wire connections and then go back for another test at the auto parts store to see if their tester keeps beeping & saying the same draw is there - with the driver door closed this time ;)

THANK YOU!!!

[carpoollane]

Another dumb question or 2, have you tested the alternator? And yes you can go fuse to fuse looking for the draw (if there is one) you remove the negative cable I believe and put an ohm meter between the battery and cable, I don't remember the setting but it will drop once the fuse is pulled that's causing a draw then you can get a schematic of that specific fuse and track wires back from there

[tink]

Oh man thanks bunches for confirming that fuse way works but yeah that's the way it was suggested in the video but ya know this truck is in the 'old' category and I didn't know if it was safe to do that with the glass fuses or not. Yeah, I think I have schematics both in the book and online bookmarked from past searches.

I don't believe the alternator was able to be tested w/the truck running when the guy at the parts store hooked his machine up to it because he did say there was a draw & his machine was just beeping... unsure but that's my best guess... and ON the that subject I did visit the parts store again today ---holy crap because I was an idiot and let it run out of gas yesterday (on a side note the needle was NOT on "E" & this is the 1st time I've ran out of gas in at least a decade)... so now the fuel filter is full of crap and it's starving for fuel & dropping OOFPH like crazy while driving on the freeway down to 5 freakin mph. Pro skills w/ the hazard lights & riding the edge of death got me all the way home today.---

*picked up a new fuel filter, air filter, and

whileat the parts store I picked up this item #W2980 from Performance Tool called a "Battery & Alternator Voltage Checker". When I asked what they have in stock for an aftermarket voltmeter gauge for the dash the parts guy suggested that other item. OK sofor $6.99 it's worth a shot. The reviews aren't bad for it: http://www.amazon.com/Performance-Tool-W2980-Battery-Tester/product-reviews/B0002KO1HQ got home, put on the new air filter, looked under the hood for any evidence of explosions since it was running like total crap randomly being fuel starved.Didn't see anything out of the ordinary.

Then went to start it up to use this new voltage checker and the sob wouldn't start. Hooked up the battery charger and it read about 75%-80% charged. Stuck it on the charger, it charged in about 10 minutes, and then walked my tired frustrated self in to the house.I'll hook up the charger again in the morning to see if it lost any charge overnight, rehook up the battery to the cables, try to start the truck & try to use this new tester thing in the daylight.

Then for the hell of it I'll put in the new fuel filter - because you know I'm really tired of living life on the edge at the mercy of random fuel starvation.

Thanks so much for the ideas & clues and putting up with me, too. Will update more tomorrow :)

[tink]

New fuel filter on = super easy, the old one was definitely dirty. Let it idle for a bit to see if any air got in to the carb & apparently if it did it escaped out since no stalling, sputters, etc ~ yay, no problem.

Used that new tester mentioned above and it showed no problem with the battery (no power was lost overnight while it sat off). Tester also showed no problem with the alternator. Hmm.

Did notice a small chunk out of the outside of the alternator belt - weird, and thought maybe it was a little loose, so went to the parts store (thank god for neighbors) and got a new belt & put on no problem.

Taking the truck for a test drive now & will re-check the battery/alternator with the tester later on today.

MAYBE with freeway driving the belt was getting warmed up enough and was just loose enough to cause a charging problem... seems weird but maybe... will update as soon as the next symptom shows.

[ragragtimetime]

I am guessing its the alternator intermittently charging...as they heat up internal resistance changes. get both a "cold" & "hot" voltage reading with that new tool & see if there is a "drop" in voltage when hot.

[tink]

Huh I'll be darned, never would have thought of that!! Thank you!!! :admire: Will do that tomorrow in the daylight ~ rather not have issues in the dark if they can be avoided. I need to put together pumpkin seeds, recipes & a baked pie from falls reserves for a lady with horses ... it's a wild weekend, ha, j/k. In between the rain & thunderstorms I'll take the truck on the freeway for a bit, get her good and hot and then pull over and check it with the tester. Sounds fun, lol. I'd really like to also take it back to the parts store and have them test it with their tester & the driver door shut in case that missing dome light exposed is an issue, even thought it has been like this since I got the truck I never tested anything with the door open before this week.

15793

Worse case scenario they do have an alternator in stock - think they said $66.

The test drive today to make sure the fuel line / carb didn't get air locked or air bubbles or whatever was successful at least :)

[BradMph]

You can maybe get one from wrecking yard if money is short. You want a good one also if you can. hate to change it sooner then later. Call around cause sometimes you will get a higher amperage for the same price. If not mistaken the alts range from 35amp to 45amp.
Fuel line vapor locking happens when the engine compartment fuel lines or carb bowl gets very hot and causes the fuel to boil . If you are getting vaporization in a fuel line you can many times solve that with a heat wrap material. If the fuel line area that needs to be protected is relatively small, you can buy like a fire resistant baking glove and cut it up and wrap around the line. Use some tie-wrap or wire.
Vapor locking fuel line in this weather? seems a little hard to do unless the engine compartment isn't ventilated. I find it hard for that to happen up north here, but anything is possible.

Exposed light is no big deal, except hard on the eyes mostly. Though those lights get friggin baking hot, so do not touch the bastage. It will burn the hell out of a finger. It surprises me that they don't melt the covers on them lights. You will probably not find a cover at autostores since our trucks are slowly vanishing from the planet. You might have to replace it with a generic one or junkyard time again. :)




PS. Hey Tink...I will be headed to California again in the near future, so maybe this time if your not too far off the path I can drive by and wave, lol. I'll give you a warning when I get an estimate of the time. April later in month most likely.

[ragragtimetime]

interior appears to be ok....other than missing a 31MM festoon bulb

[MechBertrand]

Just a couple tips...

You will always have a slight drain on the battery for the clock and aftermarket stereo stacks. This is to maintain the internal clocks.

Make sure you're using a fused volt-meter(might have to pull the back panel off to see) and check the voltage output of the battery at 100% charge. Then like said before, check alt output cold and hot. I would suggest revving the engine to your highway driving rpm as well to see if there is a problem there. soo, four checks:
Cold
idle
at rpm
Hot
idle
at RPM

Since headlights create the largest draws on power, do the same checks with headlights on and off. If the issue arises with the headlights on, inspect the circuit(fully) before considering the info below.

If all the voltages are GREATER than the battery 100% voltage (usually 12.5 - 13.1v for just batt, running alts are generally 13.5-14.6v) then your alternator is not the issue. If there is LOW VOLTAGE at idle, it is likely a diode has burnt in the alternator(Replace the entire alt. It is possible to rebuild though for confident individuals.). Low voltage at RPM is a breakdown in the winding insulation(alt internals which is just easier and cheaper to replace the whole thing).

My wiring diagram(1986) shows that the alternator houses its own regulator but if for some reason yours does not then any above failures could be living in the regulator.

[tink]

Hey did more testing today and there is a voltage drop from the battery even at around 3000 rpm after turning on the lights, opening the door, on radio, on high fan/defrost, AND blinkers all at the same time, but what finally make the voltage drop show on the tester was the HIGH beams. .5 volt difference. I don't know what that means just telling you guys what happened.

Sidenotes: the high beams come on even when the lights are off... is that normal? I don't turn the end of the knob to make the headlights come on but simply pull the knob handle forward and hey, highbeams are on. (Not a major concern right now I don't think but figured i'd put it on the list of things to figure out lol, the ever-growing list)

Tested the battery it was fully charged, drove 20 miles, parked for an hour, started right up, drove it another 20 miles to home, and it wouldn't start - battery was at 75%. Charged it up, drove 3 miles, stopped, about 15 minutes, went back out, started right up, drove another 3 miles, stopped 5 minutes at a gas station, and had to get a jump from someone else. Brought it home and it tested as fully charged.

What I do know what was bad was that while testing I had the rpm up oh to about 3k rpm sitting still while testing and the alternator started to make a loud like mid-tone clicking noise & it was definitely coming from the alternator. I'm looking up info online now about that, trying to find out what it means, either an electrical issue or a mechanical one like a bearing. But I did already get the alternator off... and a new one ordered for tomorrow morning.

Saw this video AFTER the alternator was out: ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTGz0PKIl84 ) dammit I would have done what he did but after hearing that clicking/ticking noise sort of figured well that's not good, has to come out anyway. I figure also that after the new alternator is in, I can test like that video anyway, just to be sure... about something, anything.

Thinking I'll probably cut in to some wiring that feeds into the plug-in to the back of the alternator, not the screw on white wire, that the previous owner had obviously spliced at some point and redo the ends - they look suspiciously wrapped and since I've touched them so much lately they should be investigated to make sure they're making solid connections to the back of the plug.

Also now that the alternator is off I'm thinking what the heck & have the parts store test it if possible. Unsure of what a test would show with an intermittent issue though.

AH a festoon bulb thanks so much for the right words!!! I'll have to see if I can find one local AND also probably ebay that cover for it or maybe stick an aftermarket dome light up there after it's reliable. As terrible as the cosmetic issues are with this truck, I don't want to start on them until I can use it for very long road trips without breaking down. Not much point to having another pretty but useless thing in the driveway.

PS. I'm envious of your trips, Brad!!! I miss road trips so so very much, got over 100k in them and looking forward to takin this truck on another 100k more soon. You're welcome to stop in any time, wave, eat, whatever sounds good. Got company coming mid-March-ish to only the 1st week of April but that's not a problem unless you're looking for space & quiet to sleep.

[tink]

Eh, so I can't stand not knowing what exactly is making a ticking/clicking/chattering noise & got to wondering if I take the alternator apart will the parts store still accept it for that core charge fee to be refunded to me?

I looked all over youtube vids for alternator sounds and only found 2 that sounded sort of maybe close. So I picked up the alternator with both hands, held the fan blade part as tight as I could & shook the whole thing - there's something loose in there...

... and I want to know what it is!!! Though not bad enough to loose the core charge over finding out, lol. If I take it apart & put it back together maybe they won't care ~ what do you think?

Oh and Brad TY for the vapor locking info! I had no idea that's what the phrase meant. Was worried there would be air pockets or bubbles in the line or carb from all that air in the new fuel filter, but apparently there wasn't ~ thank goodness :)

I'll spend tonight looking at wiring schematics and see if they show what gauge wire I should be buying to replace any to/from the alternator & the headlights... etc. and update tomorrow with any voltage testing results after the new alternator is in.

[geezer101]

If the noise is erratic, I would hedge my bets on one of the brushes being loose. Maybe a retainer spring isn't installed properly (or missing, depending on the monkey who built it). It will blow chunks out of the brush on the end of the armature and seriously shorten it's life from bouncing off the the contacts and burn them at the same time. It's about the only part that has any chance of rattling inside an alternator other than a fragged bearing.

[royster]

As regards core value: I'm pretty sure if you were to open the alternator, then put it back together, your core will be fine: after all, they are going to take it apart to either a.) rebuild it, or b.) salvage the copper windings.

As for the high-beam issue: that sure sounds like your problem as far as discharge. No doubt a serious short somewhere. Myself not being an electrician, I'll sit this one out :bzzzt!: although if Geezer is right (he often is) the dislodged brush in the alternator would certainly affect continuous charging.

:edit: "Glass Fuses" would be a cool name for a rock band.

[geezer101]

If there's no tamper paint on the screws I'd take a peek inside of it too. But don't do it if you're not confident that you'll get it back together. There's not much that can grief you inside of an alternator but the brushes can be fiddly to get into their housings. Normally a paper clip or thin wire will do the job of dowelling the brushes back into the housings while you put it back together. If you got warranty on it don't bother - let the supplier deal with it.

[camoit]

If the alternator is working the voltage will be up around 14.2 when the bat is fully charged.
If the battery is dirty it will self discharge.
Just put one test lead on a post and the other on the top of the battery. If you see voltage your losing power.
Also a battery is only good for about 5 years.

[tink]

Ok so updates:

The alt didn't come in until after the thunder started yesterday so we didn't get anything decent done until this morning.
I shook the new alternator, it doesn't make any noise at all :)
While sitting overnight, the old battery lost power but only about 10%, and would not start the truck this morning.

Put in the new alt & new battery and spent some of yesterday morning looking at wiring, re-doing some connections that were shoddy, and basically working on whatever we could see between spurts of rain. I did also redo a big ground wire since I was bored waiting on the part to come.
Also replaced a fuse that looked like it had moisture or resin inside though it wasn't burned out.

Picked up an aftermarket volt meter today along with the wires it said in the instructions to use in order to hook it up/in. No idea what I'm doing yet but I'm going to try and figure out where to attach it based on the directions & youtube videos since I don't know all the words they use ~ I can learn though :) so giving it a shot.

Sidenote: the new battery is TINY compared to the old one, so I'm pretty sure the old bigger battery wasn't bought new & probably swapped out from another vehicle. The guy I bought it from was 'cheap' if you know what I mean, suspicious he just flipped vehicles & drove 'em til they died - based on the 6-7 vehicles listed on his old car insurance papers in the glovebox. I'm pretty darn sure he wouldn't have opted for a bigger sized battery $$$ unless he had it laying around. There were no date circles cut out from the old battery and there was just the tiniest bit of corrosion marks starting to show on the negative side post.

Yeah Geezer, lol, the problem I have is getting stuff back together ha! I'm pretty good at stripping screws taking things apart so it's a challenge to get them back tight again. I left it alone but did shake the new one to see if there was a similar noise but nope, totally quiet.

Royster: I did redo some of the wire connections/spices that were present on the driver side headlight... but the passenger side looked OK.


I still need to grab a pic of a wire though that's never been connected to anything since I've owned the truck & find out where it's 'supposed' to connect...

[tink]

Just a couple tips...

You will always have a slight drain on the battery for the clock and aftermarket stereo stacks. This is to maintain the internal clocks.

Make sure you're using a fused volt-meter(might have to pull the back panel off to see) and check the voltage output of the battery at 100% charge. Then like said before, check alt output cold and hot. I would suggest revving the engine to your highway driving rpm as well to see if there is a problem there. soo, four checks:
Cold
idle
at rpm
Hot
idle
at RPM

Since headlights create the largest draws on power, do the same checks with headlights on and off. If the issue arises with the headlights on, inspect the circuit(fully) before considering the info below.

If all the voltages are GREATER than the battery 100% voltage (usually 12.5 - 13.1v for just batt, running alts are generally 13.5-14.6v) then your alternator is not the issue. If there is LOW VOLTAGE at idle, it is likely a diode has burnt in the alternator(Replace the entire alt. It is possible to rebuild though for confident individuals.). Low voltage at RPM is a breakdown in the winding insulation(alt internals which is just easier and cheaper to replace the whole thing).

My wiring diagram(1986) shows that the alternator houses its own regulator but if for some reason yours does not then any above failures could be living in the regulator.
This is so helpful thank you!!! Great idea to check the hot & cold and both ways, too... I was just looking at how to check the actual voltage since the simple tester I have only shows lights at certain volts, doesn't really show actual voltage.

I do have an actual voltmeter and it is fused, yes, thanks for mentioning that bit! I'd read somewhere not to use the voltmeter with the engine running, so that's why I bought the tester for engine on checking - then afterwards I saw where you could use the voltmeter to check the battery with the engine, on, too. (youtube vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTGz0PKIl84 )

Sidenote: I did also triple check the new belt tension today.

Apologies - I truly am just learning about these things. I had saved the alternator from another car once to see if I could rebuild it but life got in the way so I never learned how & once again don't have time now, lol.

Just in case there's still a problem, which is probable, your suggestion is what will be done tomorrow. It's really important to know if there's a draw that shouldn't be there or not so thank you very much for the tips!!!

*exhales*

While looking at how to add the voltmeter gauge to the truck I started inspecting wires under the dash even closer than before and think it's best to add a fuse box / rebuild the fuse box that I have now. The old one is... corroded, falling apart, basically miraculous that it works at all. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGiHZOJzBj4 is where I'm starting tonight on figuring out how to do that the right way. After reading how so many people had electrical gremlins after adding in stereo stuff, alarms, etc., I just don't dare start splicing a dicing a system already hanging on by a thread *sighs*.

It looks... amazingly easy, almost too easy to add in a fuse box... only don't understand how to put in a "ground distribution block" (not sure if that's the proper term yet) but basically instead of having to run a bazillion wires through the firewall and to a chassis ground to the frame of the truck, just to have an easily accessible 100% solid grounding spot under the dash so when I need a ground, wa-lah there it is!

It seems doable to put in an additional fuse box, connected to the battery like the video shows, and then slowly adding in fuses for the new gauges as well as switching wires/fuses from the old decomposing fuse box to the new one. Would like to figure it out, get good grounds for everything 100% sure, re-do the wires for everything one by one so as to be able to keep driving the truck daily.... you know, paychecks are so handy!

I'd be totally lost without the help here & will keep updating as I find things out and do the suggestions !!! Sorry I'm so slow, but it's been pouring rain, and part delivery sucked over the weekend, and I'm still learning words, symbols, and concepts about electricity in this thing. I couldn't even get the dash panel off all the way today sort of had it twisted to the side to try and access wire connections... slow but sure :)

[BradMph]

Sure glad the rain is dumping out west then over here on the east side of the state. We really haven't had any real rain from the storms going over you. Well, I hope things get better out there. :)

[tink]

Thanks for the well-wishes :) Rain for the next 10 days, using the wet weather time to learn about fuses & relays and switches. Got the basic concepts good and tight in my head now but struggling with finding an "ignition-on only" and also an "ignition-on and/or acc-on" options for adding in new fuses/circuits.

Also struggling to find out exactly what the fuses are for in the truck fuse box, the cover that ragtime has says one thing:
15916

the factory manual says another thing:
15917
and the actual fuses in the box in the truck right now say something else (different amps), so I'm going through an trying to figure out the labels for what the fuses are actually for, not sure if I'm right or not yet, lol. When it stops raining for a few minutes I'll have to go out and pull them one by one and see what shuts off or won't turn on. I'm GUESSING that the buss bars connect things that are either constant on, acc only on, ignition only on, unsure - still learning but this is my current guess for today:

15915


The fuse box diagram in the factory manual doesn't match what's in my truck either, neither the W or U engines:

1591815919

The buss bars going across the fuses in the back don't even match the buss bars in my fuse box,
and the factory manual says ALL 15AMP!

15920

15921

At this point I'm so freakin confused I don't know if it's the U or W engine in the darn truck, omg. And all the pics I have of the engine are from before when it was covered in oil where the stamp is (or where I remember it is).


I'm thinking if my battery is low & truck won't start then I'd like the voltmeter to give a reading even without the engine running so that's why the key in the acc and/or on position is needed.

The wire rating suggested for the voltmeter (18-20 awg) and the 7.5amp fuse requirement for it (suggested requirement guideline, not sure). Problem is, there's only 10 amp and 15 amp fuses in the fusebox I have now... and pretty sure there was also a 20amp -ugh!- So I'm thinking to look up what amp requirements are for other gauges and add in empty spots for future gauges at 7.5 amps each.

The factory manual suggests using the cigarette lighter circuit as an option, and seems to be the place with the highest capacity for add-ons:
15922

I pulled off the dash & found the blue wire connecting to the back of the lighter --- but presuming that's only 'hot', where the hell is the ground for it? Dumb question I'm still trying to figure out. The notes in the book say 'interlocked with ACC' so I'm hoping that means whatever is hooked up through that cigarette lighter wiring will work both with the key in the Accessory position and the ON/running position, too. I don't have a lighter in the truck so will have to buy one to test out how it works or if it does.

If it IS fuse #4 in the fuse block, for wiper/radio/cigarette lighter, and it's only got a 15amp fuse in there... would I need to put in a higher rated fuse into that #4 spot - even though the book says up to 120W... notice how in that last pic the book shows max amps for the radio and air conditioner terminals but shows max Watts for the cigarette lighter?!?! Now I've got to figure out what the math is for amps and watts. Ugh. Still learning a lot wow have 9 more days to figure it out :) or until a good sunshiney day, don't want to get electrocuted in the rain of course.

On the good side, the truck sounds better than ever and a lot quieter, too. Something super nice about an alternator not making a racket at 50mph.

[geezer101]

Blue wire - white stripe - 2 brown bands = radio+cigarette lighter
Green wire - white stripe - brown band = park/illumination circuit
Black wire - white stripe - brown band = ground (well, I'm sure it's ground for at least the instrument lights...)

You can get OEM style lighter sockets on eBay for $5 with a light up bezel in whatever colour you like :)

[tink]

Blue wire - white stripe - 2 brown bands = radio+cigarette lighter
Green wire - white stripe - brown band = park/illumination circuit
Back wire - white stripe - brown band = ground (well, I'm sure it's ground for at least the instrument lights...)

You can get OEM style lighter sockets on eBay for $5 with a light up bezel in whatever colour you like :)
oooooh I could just run up and hug you !!! Thanks so much for the clues !!! 1600 people w/out power and I'm waiting my turn, lol, let it storm on I guess I'll just keep doing factory manual homework & watching vids.

If there's anyone ever reading this in the future I'd like to point to this video guy to get started really getting how simple relays can be to understand http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAeKTlieYhw and then this guy who fidgets a bit more but gets the point across about switches & relays, too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vOVSst-SoY

I think I'm ready to replicate the original fuse box itself and add on to it or make an extra one or 2, since I went back and read some of pennymans words about the busses? basically the linked fuses, and am slowly 'getting' it, it's just finishing up figuring what wires/to what/how many amps for that . Seriously appreciate the wire colors thank you so much :) I'll go see if the manuals specify colors for the other wires, too, now that you mention it I think they did! :) Happy to know for sure!

Started working on drawing out where wires, fuses, and grounds should be/can go tonight - so much fun to get closer to opening all sorts of possibilities! Got the voltmeter gauge as priority #1, tachometer would be awesome * really miss seeing that a lot * even though it's an automatic :( , an actual water temp gauge and actual oil pressure gauge would be incredible to have also. But I still don't know where to add 1 gauge in the cab roflmao, nevermind 3 or 4 or 5, so making myself learn how it should/could work first. (I'll be stalking everyones dash pics for days haha!!!)

Blue, I like blue lights best. I'll have to see about ordering blue for everything eventually :) I am sick of 16 years of amber lights, lol. My dad convinced me to keep my other car 100% stock so I'm going to have tons of fun customizing the heck out of this truck once it gets mechanically perfect.

I'll update my little old shameful fusebox pic as soon as I finish changing the labels to what they actually are in case it helps someone clueless like me in the future :)

[geezer101]

oooooh I could just run up and hug you !!! Thanks so much for the clues !!! 1600 people w/out power and I'm waiting my turn, lol, let it storm on I guess I'll just keep doing factory manual homework & watching vids.

I won't judge :lmao:



Blue, I like blue lights best. I'll have to see about ordering blue for everything eventually :) I am sick of 16 years of amber lights, lol. My dad convinced me to keep my other car 100% stock so I'm going to have tons of fun customizing the heck out of this truck once it gets mechanically perfect.

I ordered a bunch of T10 blue and T10 white LED's for my dash + a blue illuminated lighter socket for my truck today. Whole lot set me back just over $5 US and NO POSTAGE FEES!!?! My mechless head unit has a blue display so it should tie in nicely. The dull green is boring, the warning/display lights are due for a freshen up now I've given everything an updated finish with carbon fibre film and if it looks kinda cheap and crappy its only cost me a few bucks so no big loss. I hope they LED's are dimmable but if not, I'll live with it.

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I won't judge :lmao:

Oh thank goodness!!! lol! Me neither :grin:



I ordered a bunch of T10 blue and T10 white LED's for my dash + a blue illuminated lighter socket for my truck today. Whole lot set me back just over $5 US and NO POSTAGE FEES!!?! My mechless head unit has a blue display so it should tie in nicely. The dull green is boring, the warning/display lights are due for a freshen up now I've given everything an updated finish with carbon fibre film and if it looks kinda cheap and crappy its only cost me a few bucks so no big loss. I hope they LED's are dimmable but if not, I'll live with it.
Amazing !!! I sure hope you post pics up after install! The only thing I've seen about switching over to the LEDs is that there's some special little extra unit required for them because they draw so little amps compared to the regular bulbs... it was long & little & bright yellow and wasn't supposed to be screwed on to where there's paint and something else on the warning sticker. Not trying to be cryptic, I think I saw it in a post on this forum.

I finally found what my fuse box wires go to, from Brad's wiki here: http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showwiki.php?title=Electrical+System:Entire+1st+Ge n+1986+Truck+Electrical+System it's on the page that looks like this:

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so happy finally found one that matches the buss bar and colors and everything :) Sort of upset they didn't explain it like that in the factory manual but going back to that book anyway to find the right amps for those fuses. Should be super easy after that's sorted.

[geezer101]

As far as I know the only thing you need to be aware of when installing LED's are the fact that they are polarity sensitive. Meaning if you don't install them correctly they won't do their funky thing. As you won't be using them as indicators you shouldn't need to have a load resistor fitted to them or an electronic relay as they draw such a low amount of current. You know when someone has installed LED's for indicators and haven't put a load module onto the circuit - they blink like christmas tree lights lol

...whoa, just had a thought while putting this post up - will LED's in the indicator dash lights mess with the indicator relay? :scratchheadyellow:

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As far as I know the only thing you need to be aware of when installing LED's are the fact that they are polarity sensitive. Meaning if you don't install them correctly they won't do their funky thing. As you won't be using them as indicators you shouldn't need to have a load resistor fitted to them or an electronic relay as they draw such a low amount of current. You know when someone has installed LED's for indicators and haven't put a load module onto the circuit - they blink like christmas tree lights lol

...whoa, just had a thought while putting this post up - will LED's in the indicator dash lights mess with the indicator relay? :scratchheadyellow:

Ah, I found the yellow part: http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/932-mighty-max-2?p=22992&viewfull=1#post22992

see that thread for the reason(s) to use it:) I'm not sure if it's directly for how you'll be using the LEDs, but just in case best to make sure

[geezer101]

O.k. that confirmed my suspicion on indicators freaking out but that member was running an MM with electronics and not neanderthal tech like the '84. As your intention isn't to change the external body lights to LED's I don't think you'll need the resistors but at least we know how to solve any issues with an LED swap if it comes into play.

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I need help understanding why the alternator listed for the truck shows 45 AMPs, regardless of brand, but all the AMPs added together in the factory manual for the fuse block under the dash add up to:
48.7 AMPs (normal load),
30.3 AMPs (intermittent load), and
79 AMPs (Max load).
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I realize all the loads don't get added together, but even ust looking at the normal load of 48.7 AMPs -- how in the heck is a 45 AMP alternator going to keep up with the AMPs the truck uses. And that's just the math for the fuses under the dash in that fuse block , certainly there are even more fuses throughout the vehicle... should I get an alternator rated at a higher AMP or what???

After the kid brings the truck back home I'm going to look at the alternator that's in there now and see exactly how many AMPs it shows on the alternator itself.

Or am I being stupid and am missing something basic without realizing it again? Because it seems to me if gauges and lights are going to be added, maybe a bigger alternator is needed first :(

[BradMph]

It doesn't keep up well at all. That's why many of us upgraded to 100amp. I noticed right off my headlights were alot brighter with an upgraded Alt.

Depending on your trucks year, you can upgrade using the 100amp Mitsubishi Van or Starion /Conquest. The plugs will need to be changed on 1st gen trucks only.


http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=5623&d=1369051653

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Thanks so much for the answer & the pics, too! That stock alt sure did feel small compared to the other one out of the car, dang it, a lot lighter. I'll have to put a new beefer one on the darn list. I should've done the math before, just didn't know I was being short-sighted :( Now I'll think about switching the voltmeter gauge so it's not 'always' on.

On a serious note I do have a 110 AMP alternator maybe I could borrow from the 3000gt. Not sure what the connections are on it, and would have to learn about the plug change & find pros/cons for what dif. plugs do to that tiny little engine in the truck. Hate to start borrowing from the car though...it's a slippery slope... maybe from the other truck I think it's got a 60 AMP alternator in it - which is at least better than a 45, but that's on the f250, so IDK!

I'll have to think about it, figure out the priorities for this year - the money on electrical upgrades really should be spent on the body & interior issues - the body is screaming at me for attention... and the interior is so so sad. I promised the guys if they didn't wreck the little truck over the winter that I'd fix the body up & paint it. So far everyone has been pulled over in it except me & my turns coming. Cop said it looked stolen. It's really ugly, ha!

Its time I guess for a new wish list, not just a replacement list, but upgrades! Like shocks, haha, now I'm thinking I better go through the forum & see what kind to get before I just get what rockauto or the parts counter guy says fits. Exasperated now.

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Well I must be more stubborn than realized since this amp thing has bugged me every day since, been kicking myself. BF said 'make a list' so I am. Went out and got 2 generic fuse blocks today. Looking around to see what else I need to still buy that's not already around the house. Found the switches & relays at 2 different auto part stores today, still cheaper online.

ZERO help from my usual parts store, god asking electrical questions gets bad reactions from the guys there. Today I got told I should have bought a Toyota so they could order stock replacements. Ugh, where's the fun in that? Zip customization. Hating being female today totally but whatever I figured everything out but one thing. I don't know what gauge wire to use to bridge the fuses together that need to be. Do I use the big size wire as the big wire going in before the buss bar in the old set up - or do I use the smaller gauge wire. After I get home I'll look and see what I can find out.

Also with the new higher AMP alternator do I *just* have to change plugs and wires or does the more powerful alternator affect the distributor at all? The coil? Usually it's a snow ball downhill lumping more things to do together with upgrades and that's my main hesitation on putting in a bigger alt. Then it's plugs then it's wires then it's distributor, coil, contacts, something wears out faster or can't handle the extra amps or maybe other stock wires/contacts/relays/switches/fuses need to be upgraded also. Like there's always a bottleneck somewhere in every system it's so hard to get the perfect balance of upgrades/mods.

I'm absolutely not messing with the charging system anymore - yet - but want to make sure I leave options open to do so in the future without having to undo & redo anything between then & now.

Happy to say the trucks been running & starting up fine even with short trips. Sure I still have a vacuum leak but still pouring rain so not messing with that for now. Rain for another 10 days... hate the Portland metro area this time of year. Still working on widening a double-door for truck access to work under-cover.

Putting in the new fuse blocks, figuring out what shocks the truck should have before I buy them, oh and bought a needle grease gun attachment to hopefully grease away some darn irritating squeaks.

[geezer101]

You won't have to upgrade any other wiring in the truck to take the big output alternator. Just the connections to hook the alternator up to the loom. Trust me that getting your electrics running solid is worth the effort. When a manufacturer designs a system for their vehicles, it is always over engineered as a safeguard (unless it's some nightmare built in China) so you can be assured you won't get any secondary faults from having more available amperage unless there is an actual existing fault with that part of the electrics. Having more available amperage will improve the starter motor, lights and relays performance.
And as for your local friendly ass hat behind the parts counter - "buy a Toyota?" Really? :cussingblack: