timing issues

[Blusylver]

this is my first post here.

im completely lost on something that should be so simple.

full story of the truck, i purchased the truck from a friend of mine for 150 dollars. its a 92 2.4l 2wd auto has clean title body is perfect and the interior is nice. it has 87k on the clock.. PO says that his autistic son put vegetable oil in the motor. i dont believe that did any damage to the engine (i have done compression test on all cylinders). truck sat for 9 months before i purchased it, i immediately replaced the oil pump seals and all belts. now for the issue, the truck cranked for about 2 minutes before it finally started. it ran alright for about a minute and then i shut it off. now i cant get it to start. fast forward 2 weeks and Im completely lost. i have read every single thread i can find about timing and anything else that seems relevant to my issue. i have drained the tank and replaced fuel filter, checked spark, checked the distributor, checked the codes. everything is working properly. i have advanced and retarded the timing 1 tooth at a time in each direction, nothing helps. i have worked on this truck for at least 2 hours a every single day since i purchased it.

i have noticed that ill line the timing up perfectly and try to start it, it will turn in and turn. when i stop i notice that the timing is off. tonight is spent about 45 min reading and seen a post talking about grounding the ecm pin ( http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/2349-92-Mighty-2-4L-proper-running-characteristics post 3) could that cause the truck not to start? if not what else can it be?


thank you for your time

[ragragtimetime]

have you verified that the timing belt did not jump a tooth?...(i am assuming the advancing & retarding of teeth you speak of is refering to distributor).

[Kaos731]

Are you getting spark to the coil? did you check the ICM that is inside the Dizzy?

I say this because the ICM fell apart inside my dizzy. it separated and the spinning of the center rotor button grabbed it and caused a blender effect. then would not start till I replaced it.

[Blusylver]

have you verified that the timing belt did not jump a tooth?...(i am assuming the advancing & retarding of teeth you speak of is refering to distributor).

No I'm talking about on the timing belt. I have seen people having to put it up to 2 teeth in either direction to get it to work. I have not done anything with the distributor other than clean the points.


Are you getting spark to the coil? did you check the ICM that is inside the Dizzy?

I say this because the ICM fell apart inside my dizzy. it separated and the spinning of the center rotor button grabbed it and caused a blender effect. then would not start till I replaced it.


Yes I have spark all the way to the plugs. Sorry for the dumb question but what is a dizzy? Where is it? I have never heard that term. Do I need to check it if I have spark at the plugs.

Thanks for the replys

[camoit]

The Dizzy is AKA the distributer to the younger crowd.
If you replaced the timing belt you need to re check the marks. Many times it will be off by 1 tooth because the book is not clear on the head mark. But here is what you should set the mark to. You can see by the picture if you set it by the flat of the head it will be off by 1 tooth. Then to get it running you need to advance the crap out of the distributer just to make it idle.


12019

[Blusylver]

That's how I initally had the timing belt. I have set the belt up to 3 teeth in each direction and it still wont start.

I have verified TDC on piston 1, then set the cam verified the distributor was set on 1. Everything is as it should be.

Is there a way to test the pcm?

[leftfield6]

First off, you need to get that timing belt in the right spot. Moving the timing belt up to three teeth either way is, IMHO, a backwards way of troubleshooting. The mechanical synchronization of the pistons and valve train is NOT something tht should be a variable.

If you're having issues getting the timing right, it's almost certainly an issue with your distributor. Or possibly one of more of your pulleys has been screwed with.

[BradMph]

Check for Spark, and power from coil, I'm with KAOS on this one. If it turns over and you have spark, check fuel flow also.

[Blusylver]

It has spark, and fuel pump is working great. I haven't Guage on the fuel line but I did remove the fuel line where it goes into the fuel rail. I stuck the fuel line into a milk jug and cranked it over for about 4 or 5 seconds and it pit about 3 inche's of fuel into the jug. That's more than enough

[Blusylver]

Haven't put a gauge on the fuel line*

If you can't tell I'm new to this car and motor, what I don't understand is how it started and ran great but now it won't start. I haven't touched the timing on the distributor side at all, I can't see how that could be out but I will mess with it tomorrow. If i can't get it fixed tomorrow I'll most likely look into just selling it.

[LSR Mike]

Well, , the vegetable oil comes to mind in the form of Clogged Injectors, If you have fuel air and spark, the 3 main items you need to investigate what affects them. You are tearing up the Spark item, the only thing you haven't tackled is a bad ECU... Notorious for the bad/leaky capacitor problem.
Air? unless a rat crawled up the intake tube that is of a lesser concern. Things to check, in the timing dept, the crank angle sensor is in the base of the distributor, it tells the ECU when to fire the injectors (well it's part of the process). you can check that it is sending a signal, then Check to see if the Pulse is being sent to the injectors. (Meter or one of those special plug in lights). If all that is good my bet is on clogged injectors.

[Blusylver]

I have also checked the injectors to make sure they are getting a pulse to fire. All 4 are working properly. I evendors went one step further and put new plugs in it, cranked it for maybe 3 seconds and then pulled the plugs, all smelt like fuel.

As for the air, I have removed the intake and verified that it was clean. I even sprayed starter fluid into the throttle body and it had no change at all when trying to start.

I'm not a dumb guy, I have done and tried everything I can think of to get this truck to start. Is there a way to test the ecu? I have used a multi meter and rrad the codes, it's in normal state.

I'm about to go give it one last attempt. I'm goimg to ground the ignition and mess with the distributor, hopefully one of those things will work

[Blusylver]

I believe that I found my issue.

For some reason I decided to check my compression again, I was reading about 15psi. At first I thought the tester was bad so I tried it on another car of mine and realized that the tester was in fact working properly.

I pulled the valve cover off and see a 3/8 thick film of the nastiest oil ever. It was so bad that I couldn't find the head bolts with out scrapping the film off. I believe that this oil is preventing the valves from closing, thus causing no compression and not being able to run.

Turns out that I have a 6 bolt 4g64 so I'll fix it.

[Blusylver]

Next question, are the haller head bolts reusable or are they stretch bolts?

[LSR Mike]

Re-useable, but I always replace them.

[BradMph]

With respect to Mike's reply, He runs a badass truck that requires things to be right or else. Changing is good if not great, I on the other hand have been using the same ole head bolts since '87. Your safer to change them if you have mixed them up in a bolt tray. If your not going to change them, by all means do not mix them up. Same bolt, same hole, hmmmm that sounded a little erotic for some reason.

When you pull the head, be prepared for the worst. Sounds like a blown head gasket by the way you explained the oil and 15psi is awfully low to be just a simple fix. Check your head in between valves for cracks, (hairline).

We also do not think your dumb ever. Don't get the wrong idea, we are all here to help not to think anyone is dumb or noob. We all were in your position at one time or another, that's why we are here. ;)

[claych]

Very Interesting...
Have You taken an oil pressure reading --- with an known good mechanical gauge?

[camoit]

Sounds like a Penzoil engine.